Ser Skwisgaar Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Howdy Y'all. I just re-read "The Rogue Prince" and... well, I have some issues. First of all, most of the story has little to do with Daemon Targaryen. But mostly - why is he held up as this special creature? In reading what Daemon did prior to the Dance, he's known for being A) an effective, if somewhat brutal, commander of the City Watch, and B) someone who decided to conquer the Stepstones to make his own kingdom. Is that really THAT outside the norm for any Targaryen? I mean, I suppose they had just come off of the reign of the Old King, so maybe everyone's expectations were a little soft, but I haven't read anything about Daemon that seems that outside the norm of capable warriors in the Targaryen clan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maid So Fair Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Read the Princess and the Queen as well - it will explain a lot. Honestly, the titles should have been swapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Skwisgaar Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 I read both - but outside of Blood and Cheese (which we don't know what his specific instructions were), what did he do that was all that 'rogue-ish' compared to Aegon or Aemond? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 He defied the King and was some sort of an "in your face" kind of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Skwisgaar Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 He defied the King and was some sort of an "in your face" kind of guy. Doesn't this seem a bit underwhelming? For someone who is declared both "a great man and a monster"? I mean, Aemond torched villages and killed his brother-in-law. I dunno, this strikes me as weird. Almost as if they're trying to make him sound important for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 In reading what Daemon did prior to the Dance, he's known for being A) an effective, if somewhat brutal, commander of the City Watch, and B) someone who decided to conquer the Stepstones to make his own kingdom. Is that really THAT outside the norm for any Targaryen? Post-Aegon the First, name one other Targ who conquered anything with their dragon besides Daemon. For that matter, name any who weren't Hand or King that did anything of note before Daemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Post-Aegon the First, name one other Targ who conquered anything with their dragon besides Daemon. For that matter, name any who weren't Hand or King that did anything of note before Daemon. Which is actually very odd; traditionally a kingdom like this would have to be fueled with more conquests to help sate their vassals, especially after the loss of the dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The silver dragon Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Post-Aegon the First, name one other Targ who conquered anything with their dragon besides Daemon. For that matter, name any who weren't Hand or King that did anything of note before Daemon. daeron. he officially made dorne submit. to targaryen rule. corlys? does he count? he had some targ blood in his ancestry. but yeah it is quite strange is't it. you would think that with this abundance of dragon's that they would be off and conquering shit. but beside's daemon no other dragon rider decided to use their dragon to carve out a realm for them self's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Well obviously rival kings/cadet dynasties with dragons would be very bad so no sane king would ever consent to that, but like you said a realm as magistrates/lords paramount of regions seems like the next logical step and putting members of your dynasty in charge to ensure survival of the dynasties and dragons the step after... The only boundary I really see with Essos is slavery; I mean look at what Dany is trying to do and she actually has full support of the masses who she can reach, which Aegon and many Targs would quite certainly never have with a few exceptions. Volantis would be easy though and could have a relationship similar to what Hong Kong has with China It's the first thing I do in my CKII games, I always take smaller realms to set up cadet Targ branches to make sure the dragons have a good shot at living, otherwise they can often die before 90 AL-110 AL. At least there is one example of someone giving it a shot :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 It should have been called "The Asshole Prince", because Daemon was just a big asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maid So Fair Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I read both - but outside of Blood and Cheese (which we don't know what his specific instructions were), what did he do that was all that 'rogue-ish' compared to Aegon or Aemond?Fair enough....Did you miss the dragon-jump or something? :dunno: He also provokes the asshole Leanora was bethrothed to into a duel so he can have this beautiful and amazing woman (and the daughter of a legitimate pirate lord) as a wife. He rides the most baddass dragon of the era and has the badass sword (which he uses). He loved to live on the edge and got away with it. He isn't content to sit at home (or plot against his brother) just because he wasn't born the heir - he forges his own path. Seriously, Daemon is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Did you miss the dragon-jump or something? :dunno: He also provokes the asshole Leanora was bethrothed to into a duel so he can have this beautiful and amazing woman (and the daughter of a legitimate pirate lord) as a wife. He rides the most baddass dragon of the era and has the badass sword (which he uses). He loved to live on the edge and got away with it. He isn't content to sit at home (or plot against his brother) just because he wasn't born the heir - he forges his own path. Seriously, Daemon is awesome. :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Fair enough....Did you miss the dragon-jump or something? :dunno: He also provokes the asshole Leanora was bethrothed to into a duel so he can have this beautiful and amazing woman (and the daughter of a legitimate pirate lord) as a wife. He rides the most baddass dragon of the era and has the badass sword (which he uses). He loved to live on the edge and got away with it. He isn't content to sit at home (or plot against his brother) just because he wasn't born the heir - he forges his own path. Seriously, Daemon is awesome. Seriously, it doesn't get more roguish than Daemon; it would have been great if the story was actually about him, or read more about him in the future (although I think he's one of the characters that works better without a POV). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 daeron. he officially made dorne submit. to targaryen rule. Daeron the First came after Daemon, so it could be argued he learned from Daemon's bad-assery. Also, Daeron did not have a dragon, which reduces the coolness of his legacy for many people. Also, his conquest failed because of it's instability, whereas Daemon's failed because he stopped caring about it and would have very likely functioned as a solid kingdom had he persevered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 daeron. he officially made dorne submit. to targaryen rule. I think the Dornish disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Strike one against his badassery is that he got kicked out of the Vale (and Runestone) despite being married to Rhea Royce, a rich heiress. The problem with the Targs is that there are always no heirs or too many. In all honesty, I don't think he was the only badass Targ, just the one whose full story has been shared more fully from Blood and Fire. Jaehaerys seems no slouch either, if the tales of him battling giants beyond the Wall are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think the Dornish disagree with that. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Skwisgaar Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 Fair enough....Did you miss the dragon-jump or something? :dunno: He also provokes the asshole Leanora was bethrothed to into a duel so he can have this beautiful and amazing woman (and the daughter of a legitimate pirate lord) as a wife. He rides the most baddass dragon of the era and has the badass sword (which he uses). He loved to live on the edge and got away with it. He isn't content to sit at home (or plot against his brother) just because he wasn't born the heir - he forges his own path. Seriously, Daemon is awesome. HAHAHAHA - I agree that he is a total badass. If the name of the book was "the badass price" I'd say "heck yeah!". The dragon jump will be up there with Tyrion's fireship and Dany's takedown of the Good Masters. I think my confusion is at the notion of him being this singular "Monster/Great Man". Was he more of a monster than any of his Targaryen Contemporaries? He was clearly a huge pain in the ass for Viserys I, but was he worse than Aegon II or Aemond, Rhaenys, etc? They said he'd be the second coming of Maegor the Cruel. Or is it just a matter of old Green loyalties painting him in that way in retrospect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 HAHAHAHA - I agree that he is a total badass. If the name of the book was "the badass price" I'd say "heck yeah!". The dragon jump will be up there with Tyrion's fireship and Dany's takedown of the Good Masters. I think my confusion is at the notion of him being this singular "Monster/Great Man". Was he more of a monster than any of his Targaryen Contemporaries? He was clearly a huge pain in the ass for Viserys I, but was he worse than Aegon II or Aemond, Rhaenys, etc? They said he'd be the second coming of Maegor the Cruel. Or is it just a matter of old Green loyalties painting him in that way in retrospect? The Maester who wrote that story was clearly incredibly biased. He did the whole Bloog & Cheese thing, but you're right, he was not the second coming of maegor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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