joluoto2 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Someone pointd out recently that the people in Bran's vision of the weirwood sacrifice wore chaimail, so I of course went to immidiately check it out. Is this a mistake by GRRM? Or is it intentional? Is it a clue that sacrifice did not happen that long ago at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorVoid Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 What problem with this? First man have forged bronze and they could make chainmails. Or am I misunderstanding smth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 It'd be a mistake if it said bronze chainmail. Otherwise it's just a vision of a time when the Andals have already begun to migrate to Westeros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 What problem with this? First man have forged bronze and they could make chainmails. Or am I misunderstanding smth? First men armour was probably similar to what the Thenns wear, ie Bronze scales. As for chain mail, wikipedia has the oldest known chain mail found dated a few hundred years before Christ. Westerosi armour I believe is comparable to Late middle ages. So that's over a thousand years on our scale of advancement that could easily be a few thousand on the Westerosi scale so I don't think there's an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 As for chain mail, a quick google search said it was probably invented around the 5th century Westerosi armour I believe is comparable to Late middle ages. So that's almost a thousand years on our scale of advancement that could easily be a few thousand on the Westerosi scale so I don't think there's an issue. 5th century BC. Just correcting it before somebody gets the wrong impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 5th century BC. Just correcting it before somebody gets the wrong impression. Also, someone might stage a protest for use of BC as opposed to BCE. Or the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Also, someone might stage a protest for use of BC as opposed to BCE. Or the other way around. Whatever. I could have written "vor Christus" as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 5th century BC. Just correcting it before somebody gets the wrong impression. Right, thanks for the correction I'll be sure to edit. As I said quick google search so I'm by no means an expert. Would late middle ages be an accurate descriptions of where Westerosi armour is at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 My guess is, it wasn't that long ago, certainly not before the Andals came with their iron working. Reason 1: the video does small, tens-to-low-hundreds years worth of jumps. Ned after the Rebellion, Lyanna as a child, Dunk (presumably), Brandon Snow (again presumably). So: fifteen years (roughly), eight years, sixty years, two hundred years. I'd expect the last one to represent a couple centuries, not a few millennia. Reason 2: everything happened during the life of the camera tree. And as the story moves backwards, the tree shrinks visibly smaller and smaller. With that in mind, a time frame of several thousand years doesn't seem right. With that in mind, the mail. I think it was put there specifically as a clue regarding the historical context. They already had chain mails, and the sickle was bronze because, I'm guessing, a traditional sickle used to butcher sacrifices to the old gods should be made of this material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Right, thanks for the correction I'll be sure to edit. As I said quick google search so I'm by no means an expert. Would late middle ages be an accurate descriptions of where Westerosi armour is at? Partially Renaissance. They are currently in the transition period and mix armor typical for the 13th to 16th centuries. With a couple outliers like the Wall featuring armor from the 11th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The FM in the North probably kept making blood sacrifices long after the Andals and their ironworking tech arrived to Westeros. Who was going to tell them to stop? They kept their religion and customs until the Targaryen conquered them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
three-eyed monkey Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Someone pointd out recently that the people in Bran's vision of the weirwood sacrifice wore chaimail, so I of course went to immidiately check it out. Is this a mistake by GRRM? Or is it intentional? Is it a clue that sacrifice did not happen that long ago at all?There is no mistake. The dream is going backwards in time. The men in chain mail and furs are gone before Bran can put a name to them. Then comes the woman with the bronze sickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 There is no mistake. The dream is going backwards in time. The men in chain mail and furs are gone before Bran can put a name to them. Then comes the woman with the bronze sickle. Oops... you are right, and I made a mistake. "Chainmail" and "sacrifice" are two different clips, and no clues as for how much time elapsed between them. Still, the camera tree is the same through the entire montage, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
three-eyed monkey Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Oops... you are right, and I made a mistake. "Chainmail" and "sacrifice" are two different clips, and no clues as for how much time elapsed between them.Still, the camera tree is the same through the entire montage, isn't it?Yeah, but it's a very old tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I take it a sign that human sacrifices were not that far away in Westeros' history as some would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I take it a sign that human sacrifices were not that far away in Westeros' history as some would think. This is a likely explanation, though another (not as likely) is that as Bran is a ten year old boy he certainly would not be an authority on armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This is a likely explanation, though another (not as likely) is that as Bran is a ten year old boy he certainly would not be an authority on armor. True in regards to Bran, but I don't think that the author would have put that detail in if it was actually to show the metallurgic development in Westeros. I think that Martin works more with symbols and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erza Whitewalker Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Why can't people take the time to read a handful of posts - this is end of thread stuff: There is no mistake. The dream is going backwards in time. The men in chain mail and furs are gone before Bran can put a name to them. Then comes the woman with the bronze sickle. This is correct. And the OP has realized this Oops... you are right, and I made a mistake. "Chainmail" and "sacrifice" are two different clips, and no clues as for how much time elapsed between them.Still, the camera tree is the same through the entire montage, isn't it? This vision could in fact be from the earliest days of WF. Probably nowhere near the arrival of the Andals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Colak Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Wasn't there something in one of Davos's chapters in ADWD about Human sacrifice having died out only 500 years ago? I dare say that such practices may have continued in the North, well after the introduction of steel. The person may have been telling Davos that the practice of hanging entrails stopped about 500 years ago, I cant remember exactly. But I think that the too should be connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Oh, you're right guys. They are apart of a different vision. When I think about it they probably represent Stark lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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