Libertarianism - the perpetual motion machine of U.S. politics thread

[rocksniffer]

Political toddler. A comment in the other thread about most Libertarians being college freshmen that have no world experience. How else am I suppose to read those kind of statements?

This is such a headache. If I ever needed a reminder as to why I don't usually do political debates, the past couple days have been it. Clearly I'm outnumbered on this board, and clearly nothing good will ever come out of this.

Eureka! you just had a breakthrough...congratulations

:smoking:

Yes, yes, and yes.

But I don't think it will stop you. People who say this sort of stuff are also, generally, ones who lack the self-discipline to disengage, because those who possess that level of self-discipline would never have posted that sort of comment to begin with.

But that's ok. We have enough bandwidth on the board for you to show us your complaints about nobody taking you seriously before you offered anything serious to engage with. We all love self-fulfilling prophecies around here.

Terra you know i agree with and respect you my brother, but this seems to be iffy at best these days...and despite that other dude being an asshat, i laughed outloud at his response to you i read just now :lol:

[aceluby]

I remember this line of reasoning being used around the time of the 2nd gulf war Bush was never a "true" conservative and all of his insanity could be written off as an imperfect version of the philosophy.

This is the same line of reasoning thrown out about Bush Jr as well. He raised spending, cut taxes, and exploded the debt... but it's ok because he wasn't a 'real' conservative.

[Ramsay Gimp]

It's the same thing you get with american conservatism. It can never fail, it can only be failed. It's how you paper over the holes.

This is the same line of reasoning thrown out about Bush Jr as well. He raised spending, cut taxes, and exploded the debt... but it's ok because he wasn't a 'real' conservative.

Are you guys really going to pretend that this is somehow unique to the right?

[Stannatic]

My best bet would say yes. Because clearly every leftist philosophy is monolithic.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Are you guys really going to pretend that this is somehow unique to the right?

You're correct, it's not unique to the right, but in American politics in the last 30 years the left doesn't have a strong a tendency to Romanticize candidates as avatars of their ideology. This inevitably leads to disappointment, and then the No True Scotsman comes out. Obama might be an exception, there was certainly a decent chunk of voters that elected him but wanted him to push harder for progressive/liberal policies, but I don't think you hear many say "well he's not a real liberal". It seems more common that people who vote Democrat tend to simply accept that this is the candidate that's running, and not expect them to be anything else.

Could certainly just be my perception but the Repubs have created a cult of personality around Reagan anytime one of them fails to be the second coming of Ronald they get waved off as "not a true conservative".

[Ramsay Gimp]

You're correct, it's not unique to the right, but in American politics in the last 30 years the left doesn't have a strong a tendency to Romanticize candidates as avatars of their ideology. This inevitably leads to disappointment, and then the No True Scotsman comes out. Obama might be an exception, there was certainly a decent chunk of voters that elected him but wanted him to push harder for progressive/liberal policies, but I don't think you hear many say "well he's not a real liberal". It seems more common that people who vote Democrat tend to simply accept that this is the candidate that's running, and not expect them to be anything else.

Could certainly just be my perception but the Repubs have created a cult of personality around Reagan anytime one of them fails to be the second coming of Ronald they get waved off as "not a true conservative".

I think Reagan and Obama are the only two candidates in recent memory who have been romanticized by either side. GWB was never really loved by the right-wing except in the aftermath of 9/11, which was a special time for obvious reasons

[The Fallen]

My feeling is that if you elect them then you own them. As Larry pointed out, people reacted to Obama as if he was the anointed one. (I always hesitated, as I know that once you're actually in the oval office you have to start compromising.) And many were disappointed. But no one on the left has disowned him.

Spelling.

[Swordfish]

My feeling is that if you elect them then you own them. As Larry pointed out, people reacted to Obama as if he was the anointed one. (I always hesitated, as I know that once you're actually in the oval office you have to start compromising.) And many were disappointed. But no one on the left has disowned him.

Spelling.

Unlike they did with Lieberman.

[The Fallen]

Unlike they did with Lieberman.

I'm trying to remember back to that time. But first, it doesn't really fit the criteria being discussed above.

If I recall correctly (without looking it up) Lieberman started disagreeing with his own party. Not just that, wasn't he tearing into the Democrats and trying to throw a monkey wrench in his own party's policies?

But yes, the Democrats decided to sideline him, but again, he wasn't a president or someone who was being held as the epitome of liberal thought.

[The Fallen]

I figured I would drop this here for all my libertarian friends on the board. This is your dream coming through.

In the week since Liberland announced its creation and invited prospective residents to join the project, they have received about 200,000 citizenship applications – one every three seconds – from almost every country in the world.

Prospective citizens are also offering Liberland their expertise in areas from solar power and telecoms to town planning and coin minting. “There is a spontaneous ordering taking place,” Jedlicka says. “People have planned the whole city in three days and others really want to move in and invest … what seemed like a dream now really looks possible.”

Liberland’s only stipulations are that applicants respect individual rights, opinions and private property, and have no criminal record or Nazi or Communist party background.

Jedlicka says: “The model citizen of Liberland would be [American founding father] Thomas Jefferson, which is why we established the country on his birthday. Citizens will be able to pursue happiness and this is the place where we can make this happen.”

It will be interesting to see who actually gets picked to move there - if the state actually comes to fruition.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/24/liberland-hundreds-of-thousands-apply-to-live-in-worlds-newest-country

[Larry of the Lawn]

Unlike they did with Lieberman.

Lieberman made a right-hand turn that started post 911 with the Homeland Security nonsense and culminated with him endorsing McCain in 2008. Pretty sure the last time he was elected he wasn't even on the Democratic ticket. That's not just drifting to center by virtue of compromise.