Heresy 159

[King Tyrion XX]

Welcome! :cheers:

Warning: it's addictive...

I'd have a PHD by now if I didn't read Heresy :cheers:

[King Tyrion XX]

Check this out at 22.00 (Kit Karrignton) In response to the question "Who would you like to be?" .We are all hoping Kit to see this not just you.

Two words for you. Season 6.

[wolfmaid7]

I wanted to come in and say I now understand why you post your long theories! I was developing an idea with all this talk of wights and thralls, that when I saw the patchface thread, I quickly wrote that maybe we have some thralls under the sea.

I should've waited and added quotes and lined my signature! Less than 2 days later someone has an "idea" and starts a thread on "sea wights".

I learned my lesson though, but I'll still think about it and post it here when it comes together.

Yep, even if its an idea that's in progress its good to get the gist out out there.And when you have a good group of people who are open-minded and willing to give it the time of day their eyes can help you clean certain things up.

[Eira Seren]

Check this out at 22.00 (Kit Karrignton) In response to the question "Who would you like to be?" .We are all hoping Kit to see this not just you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfvVluNxujc

Guess we'll have to wait and see. ("Are we not doing phrasing anymore?")

Also, the looks on their faces at the beginning. . . just sat down, still trying to pour self a drink. . . that's your opening question? going to need this. . . .

John Bradley is rather endearing.

Makes sense given GRRM recently came closer than he ever has to putting the 7 book limit in stone. With everything else that needs to happen that's an awful lot of Dany material if she is going to Valryia for something significant and then gets to Westeros to do more than storm into the throne room for her execution before ADOS is over.

Heh. First she will have to fight her way through Mereen. No time for all this other stuff, not in the next book.

I tend to agree- didn't Martin say Dany would go to Westeros? I think she needs to with her dagons in order to let the Vale know who's boss. Wasn't that the way the dragon lords captured Vale the 1st time? The queen or princess rode a dragon up there?

Also, not sure if Valyria still exists. I picture it as molten lava. Is there any SSM anectodes that validate or allude to the possibility of readers seeing Valyria?

Interesting idea, that she needs to follow a similar path in order to retake Westeros. . . especially given my recent suspicions that Jon Arryn may have been a bigger factor behind toppling the Targ dynasty than I'd considered.

[Phillip Frye]

Blurbs like the one discussed above are usually intended for the inside flap of the dust jacket, and aimed at potential buyers browsing in bookstores. They are written in the publisher's PR department, quite possibly by an intern who flipped through the book the day before.

I'm not certain that the first blurb that Black Crow posts along with the 1993 letter arose from an intern at a publishing house glancing over materials prepared by Martin. That one might have been written by Martin.

Remember in the early '90's, Martin wasn't the super-successful novelist before whom publishers would bow down. He had some publications since Armageddon Rag, but nothing huge. At this point, he was trying to transition back from writing television scripts into publishing novels. He would have been keenly aware of the need to market this new trilogy, as noted in his letter to his agent. I think it very possible that Martin wrote a blurb or two at the beginning to help get the attention of a publisher. Basically, GRRM, Inc. basically consisted of Martin, his agent, and his wife sitting around a kitchen table. He also needed a publisher to put some faith in his trilogy despite Armageddon Rag, which would have represented some headwind for his next major novel.

Of course, by A Feast for Crows, he wasn't directly involved in the marketing, except perhaps to approve or reject something. However, I don't think that Martin really scored big until the television series came out, which brought droves of eyeballs to all five ASOIAF books. The famous guy, rolling in the money and subject to extreme attention, did not appear until around 2011-12.

[Phillip Frye]

I noticed that the blurb of which Black Crow is so fond notes that the Wall has broken, not that it has fallen down. We have debated the logistics of something that size collapsing. Black Crow favors that it disappear in a mix of ice crystals and Sidhe dust. However, I wonder if we have that wrong? The wards will break, but the Wall will stand.

[Eira Seren]

I noticed that the blurb of which Black Crow is so fond notes that the Wall has broken, not that it has fallen down. We have debated the logistics of something that size collapsing. Black Crow favors that it disappear in a mix of ice crystals and Sidhe dust. However, I wonder if we have that wrong? The wards will break, but the Wall will stand.

I dunno what Black Crow thinks, but it seems like if the wards have to go first, a breach would make sense. The weakest spots would be the first to go. Course, if there's melting ice, wouldn't that soften the ground considerably enough to develop some pretty big weak spots, too?

[Voice]

Interesting idea, that she needs to follow a similar path in order to retake Westeros. . . especially given my recent suspicions that Jon Arryn may have been a bigger factor behind toppling the Targ dynasty than I'd considered.

Yuuup. Before there was Varys and Littlefinger, there was Jon Arryn and Rhaegar Targaryen.

[Phillip Frye]

I tend to agree- didn't Martin say Dany would go to Westeros? I think she needs to with her dagons in order to let the Vale know who's boss. Wasn't that the way the dragon lords captured Vale the 1st time? The queen or princess rode a dragon up there?

Yep. That's why there will be eleven books (or thirteen if you listen to alienarea).

[Voice]

I dunno what Black Crow thinks, but it seems like if the wards have to go first, a breach would make sense. The weakest spots would be the first to go. Course, if there's melting ice, wouldn't that soften the ground considerably enough to develop some pretty big weak spots, too?

Not necessary. The king riding the winds of winter on his ice spider already has his own gate :devil:

[Phillip Frye]

I think that the point of the blurbs is not that there will be a definitive final battle of Winterfell (although there might!), it is the insight it brings to what Martin was thinking when he originally plotted out the series, showing us what was important in his mind. Some of the contents of the blurbs have been overtaken by events, but others have not.

To demonstrate, let's talk about "Starfell". What isn't important about that information is the prediction that Barristan Selmy gives important background information to Daenerys, which makes her travel to Starfall on dragonback to learn more truths. Heck, a betting pool would probably predict that Ser Grandpa will be dead before Daenerys returns to Meereen, meaning that the background information about Starfall will not be delivered at all.

Instead, what is important about the blurb is that it reveals to us that something important is going on or happened at Starfall, whether it was Lyanna dying in a tower, the spiriting away of Aegon VI, something about Ashara Dayne, secrets from The Age of Heroes, etc. We now have some idea that a significant plot point is heading to or from Starfall.

That is the reason why the blurbs are interesting.

[Phillip Frye]

Speaking of Aegon VI, I am still skeptical of the "mummer's dragon". I think that the material cut from A Dance with Dragons (which was supposed to include Illyrio Mopatis openly giving fAegon Blackfyre), shows that Illyrio is probably the father of fAegon, not the Mad King. Using a "mummer's dragon" to seize the throne is one answer to Varys' riddle.

Ironically, I think that fAegon has much in common with Joffrey. Both believe absolutely in their (supposed) family mythology and that they father was a king.

[Mother of Dragons]

Two words for you. Season 6.

Yeah, I missed that. I thought Jon was making a reference to you know, being inside a wolf ala Varymyr 6 skins- *wink, wink* because he got all embarrassed.

[Mother of Dragons]

I noticed that the blurb of which Black Crow is so fond notes that the Wall has broken, not that it has fallen down. We have debated the logistics of something that size collapsing. Black Crow favors that it disappear in a mix of ice crystals and Sidhe dust. However, I wonder if we have that wrong? The wards will break, but the Wall will stand.

Lol on the Sidhe dust & ice crystals! Maybe he just wants it to happen vs believe it will happen.

I'm in the magic camp too, isn't there something that mentions the wall's magic? We see evidence with the black gate, but not sure i 'm convinced it has to be from Winterfell. Look at WF. Its trashed, but the wall isn't affected.

[Eira Seren]

Not necessary. The king riding the winds of winter on his ice spider already has his own gate :devil:

Is that gate down a well? :)

Yeah, I missed that. I thought Jon was making a reference to you know, being inside a wolf ala Varymyr 6 skins- *wink, wink* because he got all embarrassed.

Do not want the writers getting any ideas :laugh: because after moving on from Ros, they are currently occupied with Ramsay. . . but soon enough will need to find something worse. . . . :shocked:

[Mother of Dragons]

Well, what made me think of the Vale getting a personal visit is the fact that everyone says how it's impregnable. We know what happens to the people who are arrogant or feel a false sense of power/security. And this has been going on awhile.

This just popped in my head: what if this is how Tyrion gives the tribes the Vale? We know how Dany's justice works, and I'm sure the Lords of the Vale will piss off Dany with their stubborness, make her more emotional. Also gives a way for Tyrion to find Sansa (if he becomes a dragon trainer, of course).

[Mother of Dragons]

Is that gate down a well? :)

Do not want the writers getting any ideas :laugh: because after moving on from Ros, they are currently occupied with Ramsay. . . but soon enough will need to find something worse. . . . :shocked:

I can't imagine they'll skip Cersei & Lady Merryweather to keep the guys happy. 5WD (Westerosi Dragons) says they keep that character.

Also, I didn't realize Kit H. was so cute until that interview. I guess the NW uniform doesn't do much for me, but notice how he and Jon B. wore black? :)

[Mother of Dragons]

Speaking of Aegon VI, I am still skeptical of the "mummer's dragon". I think that the material cut from A Dance with Dragons (which was supposed to include Illyrio Mopatis openly giving fAegon Blackfyre), shows that Illyrio is probably the father of fAegon, not the Mad King. Using a "mummer's dragon" to seize the throne is one answer to Varys' riddle.

Ironically, I think that fAegon has much in common with Joffrey. Both believe absolutely in their (supposed) family mythology and that they father was a king.

FAegon being Illryo's son has been floated before, with those clues Tyrion finds & his scheming for power.

[King Tyrion XX]

I'm not certain that the first blurb that Black Crow posts along with the 1993 letter arose from an intern at a publishing house glancing over materials prepared by Martin. That one might have been written by Martin.

Remember in the early '90's, Martin wasn't the super-successful novelist before whom publishers would bow down. He had some publications since Armageddon Rag, but nothing huge. At this point, he was trying to transition back from writing television scripts into publishing novels. He would have been keenly aware of the need to market this new trilogy, as noted in his letter to his agent. I think it very possible that Martin wrote a blurb or two at the beginning to help get the attention of a publisher. Basically, GRRM, Inc. basically consisted of Martin, his agent, and his wife sitting around a kitchen table. He also needed a publisher to put some faith in his trilogy despite Armageddon Rag, which would have represented some headwind for his next major novel.

Of course, by A Feast for Crows, he wasn't directly involved in the marketing, except perhaps to approve or reject something. However, I don't think that Martin really scored big until the television series came out, which brought droves of eyeballs to all five ASOIAF books. The famous guy, rolling in the money and subject to extreme attention, did not appear until around 2011-12.

That explains why he started pinching my stash back '99....but why is he still doing it?

[Voice]

Is that gate down a well? :)

The darkness holds no terrors for him. It's his own VIP entrance ;)