wolfmaid7 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 They have indeed, but the mere fact of stabbing the Lord Commander in the back isn't sufficient in itself. After all Mormont was murdered while out beyond the Wall investigating this awakening. Arguably of course it is about Mormont rather than Jon Snow. After all Othor, who first tried to kill him, was a member of the Watch, and then it was living members who finally did for him, so perhaps it was his death which opened the crack rather than the stabbing of of Lord Snow - after all those who did it thought that they were being true. I was thinking that Jon when he rallied the Watch to fight Mance they stood united.Against impossible odds, The Wall defended itself and them because they stood together behind a common cause.Not now though.So i agree i don't think its as simle as stabbing the LC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 I was thinking that Jon when he rallied the Watch to fight Mance they stood united.Against impossible odds, The Wall defended itself and them because they stood together behind a common cause.Not now though.So i agree i don't think its as simle as stabbing the LC. Indeed. Because its one of Old Nan's sayings it's easy to think of it being something mystical, but in reality it may simply come down to practicalities in the sense that "A house divided against itself cannot stand." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eira Seren Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 If they were merely Craster's boys, they would've been around all that time, yes. As the old powers have only just re-awakened, no. Only just? That seems very sudden. Haaaaa i see what you did there :cool4: I'll say we'll know its fallen when we start seeing the dead rise South of the Wall and given conditions at the end of Dance i'll say s**ts about to hit the fan. I had something and now it is disappearing. I completely agree, with the exception of Othor and what's his butt, who managed to rise in Castle Black. Oh, yeah, now I remember. Something about Mormont and Jon being sacrifices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Indeed. Because its one of Old Nan's sayings it's easy to think of it being something mystical, but in reality it may simply come down to practicalities in the sense that "A house divided against itself cannot stand." Some oaths are just as powerful.I sometimes think if on the Fist they hadn't broken emotionally/mentally and if their wasn't treachery they would have held also. Only just? That seems very sudden. I had something and now it is disappearing. I completely agree, with the exception of Othor and what's his butt, who managed to rise in Castle Black. Oh, yeah, now I remember. Something about Mormont and Jon being sacrifices? Well Othor and Jaffa were enthralled already.The Link in my opnion was just re-estabilshed because ( credit to Flagons for suggesting this to me) the NW had dug tunnels through the Wall.But Jon had filled it up afterward So When Othor and Jaffa rose their was a breech. I think the Wights Jon has in the ice cells will be the visual indicators that the Wall has fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Well Othor and Jaffa were enthralled already. Jafer, I think. (The Jaffa are enthralled in Stargate: SG-1.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 They have indeed, but the mere fact of stabbing the Lord Commander in the back isn't sufficient in itself. After all Mormont was murdered while out beyond the Wall investigating this awakening. Agreed. Not alone, sufficient in itself. The stabbing of a LC is but one chink in the armor, one chink in the Wall... Arguably of course it is about Mormont rather than Jon Snow. After all Othor, who first tried to kill him, was a member of the Watch, and then it was living members who finally did for him, so perhaps it was his death which opened the crack rather than the stabbing of of Lord Snow - after all those who did it thought that they were being true. Indeed. Chinks in the Ice. Not the sort of chinks you and I might be able to see when looking at that shining wall of crystal. But, those are the very sorts of chinks that burning, starry eyes, would not miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Only just? That seems very sudden. Not sudden. But I'd say they've only just fully awakened, now that Winter is Come. I don't know about you, but for me, there are many stages of awakening. It's a very gradual process: Dog barks Mind thinks, "shut up dog" I realize I'm not going to fall back to sleep I think about getting out of bed, don't I think about it some more I remember there is no... six I finally get out of bed I spill water on the counter as I try to make coffee with only one eye open I check the Heresy thread I notice how quiet the dog is once I drink my coffee and wonder why I have a dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 I think the Wights Jon has in the ice cells will be the visual indicators that the Wall has fallen. It might although the point is that they were not yet wights, but just dead. Jon may have had in mind using the corpses as canaries but I rather had the impression they were dumped there and forgotten about rather than regularly monitored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eira Seren Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Some oaths are just as powerful.I sometimes think if on the Fist they hadn't broken emotionally/mentally and if their wasn't treachery they would have held also. Well Othor and Jaffa were enthralled already.The Link in my opnion was just re-estabilshed because ( credit to Flagons for suggesting this to me) the NW had dug tunnels through the Wall.But Jon had filled it up afterward So When Othor and Jaffa rose their was a breech. I think the Wights Jon has in the ice cells will be the visual indicators that the Wall has fallen. Hmm. . . this will be interesting to see. And I'll bet it happens differently in the show than in the books. Not sudden. But I'd say they've only just fully awakened, now that Winter is Come. I don't know about you, but for me, there are many stages of awakening. It's a very gradual process: Dog barks Mind thinks, "shut up dog" I realize I'm not going to fall back to sleep I think about getting out of bed, don't I think about it some more I remember there is no... six I finally get out of bed I spill water on the counter as I try to make coffee with only one eye open I check the Heresy thread I notice how quiet the dog is once I drink my coffee and wonder why I have a dog I understand the no six. . . but friends, there is a six. . . Also, it goes to 11! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I understand the no six. . . but friends, there is a six. . . Also, it goes to 11! I daresay that six will hasten me to 7 on the morrow :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Hmm. . . this will be interesting to see. And I'll bet it happens differently in the show than in the books. Er... yes, perhaps just a little bit: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2ylzjt/spoilers_all_will_redacted_show_up_at_hardhome_in/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Er... yes, perhaps just a little bit: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2ylzjt/spoilers_all_will_redacted_show_up_at_hardhome_in/ Microscopic. Hardly a noticeable change from the text at all :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Microscopic. Hardly a noticeable change from the text at all :D Ah, it gets better: There's some uncertainty as to whether this will be episode 5:08 or 5:10 (the last episode) with another on-set rumour not only placing this as the point where Jon gets the knife in the back, but suggesting that the closing scene of the series will be Jon carried off by the same walker on the dead horse that collected Craster's son! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 @ BC: Yeah that's my point, them getting enthralled the Wall would be the indicator.In the case of Othor and "Jafar" they were just reached out to having already been enthralled in the first place.Seeing fresh "new"Wights would show the Wall has been breached. Given the cold that Jon feels and the fact that Mel through her vision when Jon is stabbed feels cold herself (this woman does not feel cold and when she did it was through her vision of the Wight attack on Hardome I believe).I'd say the Wards have fallen and nothing would stop the the Cold winds from rising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Jafer - Jafar was the evil sorceror in Aladdin :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Danm it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Yes, I think I'll consider the Wall to have fallen the day a Popsicle sets foot south of it. None of Craster's boys ever will, though.This would be funny, if it were accurate. Unfortunately, Val's little Monster (Gilly's boy) says it just can't be true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianstorm Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Whether it relates to Aegon, as I suspect, or to Jon or to both - I suspect it may knock some of the theories about the tower in the pass off their perch. Well what could Dany learn that would help her by the time she gets to Starfall? She doesn't know enough about Valyrian steel yet to make any connection of Dawn to Lightbringer. Nor anything about Jon Snow, if she even knows his existence yet. However she would be aware of fAegon. And who could be at Starfall to disprove that? The Most Dangerous Man in Dorne of course! The dragon up Doran's sleeve, perhaps. This does lead me to question if Littlefinger has a dragon on the great Cyrvasse board of Westeros as well, but I suppse that's not for Heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Welcome to Heresy. I very much doubt that Danaerys will be going anywhere near Starfall in person. Given the context of Baristan telling her about the place I'd be very much inclined to read this as her hearing that someone called Aegon has invaded Westeros. Asks Baristan what the hell is going on and he tells her that Rhaegar told him before the Trident that son was smuggled by Ashara from Dragonstone to Starfall, but he that he never heard what happened afterwards, apart from the story that she'd killed herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Ah, it gets better: There's some uncertainty as to whether this will be episode 5:08 or 5:10 (the last episode) with another on-set rumour not only placing this as the point where Jon gets the knife in the back, but suggesting that the closing scene of the series will be Jon carried off by the same walker on the dead horse that collected Craster's son! Nice. If the spoiler is accurate (I know that's a big IF) for the final episode this season. Mayhaps this encouraged the comment re attending the cons if WoW is finished beforehand? BC, can we just agree to call Night's King "Mayhaps Brandon" Stark? Jafer - Jafar was the evil sorceror in Aladdin :cool4: Danm it!!!! * Damn * LOL But yeah, dents in the armor, chinks in the ice. A chiseled gate with no wards, aside from "oak and iron guard me well..." Then we have the mutiny at the Keep, the Ides of Marsh... From that chink, a blue flower grows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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