The Anti-Targ Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I watched the Audio commentary of E2 from Season 4 yesterday with GRRM, Jack Gleeson, Natalie Dormer and the episode director. GRRM specificaly comments on the different characterisation of Shae between book and TV show and he says on balance he prefers TV Shae. I do like the fact that GRRM wrote the episode where Shae and Tyrion break up for good, that way he got to set the emotional tone that would underly Shae's motivations for the remainder of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b09boy Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Then I disagree with Martin. It's a strange little situation, actually. TV Shae actually is much better developed, and often more enjoyable as a character. But she also doesn't fit well into the story being told. She's a square peg going into a round hole. Shae is someone Tyrion latches onto, something to fill the void of his lost love. He ignores her faults to the point where he actually begins to believe he loves her, all the while she continually makes decisions which compromise him, up until the bitter end when things come crashing down on him. In the books this fits because she's just a stupid, selfish girl. In the show, this entire plot doesn't end up making much sense. It ends up a classic case of forcing characters into a story rather than a character leading a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseHarrison Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I mean in theory it was better to "develop" Shae more, but doing so made her betrayal nonsensical. Book Shae's betrayal of Tyrion made a lot of sense, TV Shae's betrayal came out of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Swell Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 The only dumb thing about TV Shae was the betrayal. They built her up as a smarter character than that. Should have given her a better motivation. But her part in the story is minor in the grand scheme of things so it doesn't really bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Well, of course GRRM would say that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Targaryen Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 T.V. Shae didn't have the best line Book Shae ever had about being a kitchen wench/ scullion, in which she suggested Tyrion cover her with flour and suck gravy off her tits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 TV Shae was a nicer character, a more caring and empathic character. For this reason, I had been worried about how the betrayal was going to pan out. You can't show her to genuinely care about both Tyrion and Sansa and then have her condemn them both to a death sentence through sheer pettiness.Instead of having the betrayal still happen, they should have had Tywin follow through on his promise to hang any whore he kept in KL. That way, Shae could have performed the role of Tysha in Tyrion's mindset when he is released and goes after Tywin.Book Shae is ultimately just trying to survive and live as good a life as she can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 In the show she is basically a women scorned. Made perfect sense for her to turn on Tyrion. He called her a whore and married a girl that Shae was protective of. She was basically being cast aside like trash. I have no real problem with the betrayal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 A woman scorned is a pathetic trope belonging in soap opera and it didn't make sense at all as a reason for her to condemn him and Sansa to a death sentence with lies, especially after having been shown to genuinely care for them. Her actions were out of character for the way in which she was altered from the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Swell Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 In the show she is basically a women scorned. Made perfect sense for her to turn on Tyrion. He called her a whore and married a girl that Shae was protective of. She was basically being cast aside like trash. I have no real problem with the betrayal. I guess Shae wasn't the only one who didn't catch on to what Tyrion was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Yes the betrayal was problematic for the show, and GRRM did note this in the commentary without really passing judgement on how it was handled, or rather left up to him to handle it. He pretty much had one episode to stamp some sort of basis for Shae to betray Tyrion onto the show and I think he did an OK job of it. I can get behind a combination of Tyrion rejecting Shae being a cause for an emotional break, but ultimately self preservation being what lead her to testify against Tyrion. The show never says whether Shae volunteers to throw Tyrion under a mammoth or if she gets nabbed by Cersei and friends. Shae is still a whore, with a whore's sense of self preservation, no one will look out for her except herself. Only Tyrion did that really, and his protection was gone before the purple wedding, and irretrievable after the purple wedding. It's not pure woman's scorn nor pure self preservation that lead to the betrayal IMO. It's a mix of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Left Fighting Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Personally I felt the betrayal by Shae, while it was given a reason (she felt scorned) it came so quickly that it wasn't as emotionally charged as how the murder played out in the books. Because they made her so sympathetic and likeable, when she finally betrayed Tyrion, it seemed like it didn't match up. He hurt her but good, but the actions she took had immediate and incredibly serious consequences, e.g. him getting executed, also Sansa, who even if Tyrion pretends to cast Shae aside for, never did anything to betray Shae. Spending so much time with Sansa should have given her the idea that even if she thought Tyrion was interested in Sansa, Sansa was not looking to become Tyrion's loving wife and bedmate in the near future. And in the show she seemed to have a soft spot for the girl, but her little betrayal not only meant Tyrion's attainted but Sansa as well if she ever turned up within the Crown's reach. That's why I felt it was lackluster. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy show!Shae as her actress was a great casting choice, but the last of the storyline with her and Tyrion could've been handled a little better imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I guess Shae wasn't the only one who didn't catch on to what Tyrion was doing. I got what he was doing. It was obvious that Shae didn't and she took it personally. A woman scorned is a pathetic trope belonging in soap opera and it didn't make sense at all as a reason for her to condemn him and Sansa to a death sentence with lies, especially after having been shown to genuinely care for them. Her actions were out of character for the way in which she was altered from the book. I mean it's a trope that's existed since even the most ancient forms of storytelling and is still present in about a many media across the board today. She was a simple girl who basically felt cast aside by this guy she loved for this girl she's been protecting. Obviously Tyrion had real reasons to do it. But it was clear she got very hurt. And she wanted to get back at him in the worst way possible. Not the first or last time these things will be done in storytelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The Anti-Targ,Do you not agree that my suggestion in my first post on your interesting thread would have been a better way of handling it? Not only would it have meant not ruining the Shae they had built up, but it would have given Tyrion a stronger motivation for confronting Tywin during his escape, especially if it had fallen to Jaime to tell him of Shae's execution after releasing him. I think the book readers who were upset about the Tysha omission, myself included, would have been fine with that change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy the Schnoz Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Easily the dumbest character in GOT. And she DID want to throw Tyrion under the bus, hence all the unneccessary details during her testimony, i.e. "fuck me like it's my last night". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 lancerman,All tropes can be fine if handled well. The point is that Shae is presented as having stronger morals than she has in the books. It just doesn't fit and TV Shae deserved better in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pashernate Reader Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I mean in theory it was better to "develop" Shae more, but doing so made her betrayal nonsensical. Book Shae's betrayal of Tyrion made a lot of sense, TV Shae's betrayal came out of nowhere. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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