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Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP501 Discussion

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I'm willing to bet anything there is no follow up to that prophecy. I'm also willing to bet that Mance is dead for real on the show. As I have speculated already in another thread last week. Brienne/Pod will replace Mance/Spearwives as the undercover rescue party in Winterfell.

I can get on board with this. Despite all the trimming they've done, the TV show still has too many characters for a 10 hour season. Its for that reason that I hope Mance is gone for good.

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It looks to me like if we are being set up to eventually see Sweetrobin again. He'll come back having taken a level in badass from Lord Royce's School for Knights and Squires it seems--confirming my suspicions that they're just going to merge Sweetrobin and Harry the Heir into one person in a later season (if either has a greater role to play).

That's of course, if he comes back... but I get the feeling we wouldn't have seen him at all this season if he wasn't going to possibly come back as a character. I should note he was left on a laughable but memory stand out moment. I feel if that was going to be the very last we see of the character, it would have been more likely that we wouldn't have seen him at all.

So, that's my prediction, Sweetrobin returns in a later season (probably Season 7 for a "grand showdown", or maybe halfway through Season 6 at earliest) having taken a level in badass (and likely recast).

Hope you are right :-)

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Here's the weekly "Why Game of Thrones sucked tonight"

1.) They left out the entire fucking point of the Maggy the Frog prophecy scene, the Volanqar. Why bother with the flashback if you're going to cut the most important part?!

2.) No stench at Tywin's funeral, way to take out the fucking best part.

3.) No Illyrio despite staying at his fucking house

4.) Varys just casually revealing his organization and its motives to Tyrion, fuck off D&D. And what's this defending the downtrodden nonsense from him? He's a fucking Targ loyalist. Not to mention they're having him go off on Tyrion adventures instead of staying in King's Landing and owning shit up like he should. Fucking character assassination.

5.) Missandei and Grey Worm bullshit STILL. STILL. STILLLLLLL. Really D&D?! You have to cut Euron, Victarion, Wyman, Aegon, Connington, and nearly everything else that makes the most-ASOS books interesting yet you still have the time to include fucking Missandei and Grey Worm scissoring?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?

6.) Characterizing the Faith Militant has some sort of fanatical homophobic ISIS instead of the charitable people's army of war refugees they are in the book. D&D are unable to place themselves in a medieval society, instead inserting the "Hurrrr religion bad" 2015 worldview into somewhere it doesn't even belong. Believe it or not, the Faith Militant/Sparrows are not meant to be antagonists unless you're Cersei.

7.) Oh look, it's Loras. I wonder how long until D&D reference that he's gay. Oh, that was about 1 minute. You realize in the books it's just heavily implied Loras is gay and he has an actual personality/character traits besides being a running gay joke/reference? D&D are unable to take characters outside of their diversity quota mold.

8.) Brienne actually ran into BOTH Stark girls by sheer coincidence. Do D&D think Westeros is the size of Disneyland or something?!

9.) What the fuck is with this bullshit Sansa-Winterfell storyline. You know they're going to Winterfell based on the trailer. So Stop trying to force "Dark Sansa" (I didn't even coin this fucking bullshit cringey term) down our throats and stop making LF out to be an idiot. Fucking strong independent women Sophie Turner bad acting bullcrap.

10.) Mereen ALREADY FUCKING SURRENDERED. BRAVO D&D. There goes the entire battle of book 5 and half of its material. Why even bother with the Sons of the Harpy when Yunkai is doing nothing?! This is so nonsensical, first they're desperate for Dany material to adapt then they take out her biggest fucking challenge after arriving in Slaver's Bay. I guess this season will just be Dany bitching about MUH DRAGONS again.

11.) That fucking stupid kid that killed Ygritte is a recurring character now? Oh fuck off with that crap. I bet they'll have him kill Stannis, Jon, and the Night's King while they're at it.

12.) There's no indication or foreshadowing that really wasn't Mance, like in the books. If they killed him off for good, fuck you D&D.

Don't worry folks, I'll be here all season, reminding you why the books are better.

The books are deeper, richer and I enjoy discovering on these boards and on podcasts things I've overlooked.

But I enjoy the show on it's own merits. As a separate entity that sometimes rises and sometimes falls.

I also miss much of what was cut out. I really wanted to see Tyrion travel down the Royhnar. All the wonderful buildings we don't get to see and history we mss out on.

Edited by TheReal_Rebel

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I assumed that was because we saw so many of them being killed in Season 2. Perhaps a few more will pop up in upcoming seasons

I thought that, but Cersei still gets told she has 3 kids, when she clearly told Catelyn her eldest was stillborn. I feel like this show is forgetting itself.

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Why is Brienne being so mean to Pod?

In the show, Pod is given to Brienne as a squire, without choice. In the books, Pod later on joins Brienne, to find Tyrion

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Here's the weekly "Why Game of Thrones sucked tonight"

1.) They left out the entire fucking point of the Maggy the Frog prophecy scene, the Volanqar. Why bother with the flashback if you're going to cut the most important part?!

2.) No stench at Tywin's funeral, way to take out the fucking best part.

3.) No Illyrio despite staying at his fucking house

4.) Varys just casually revealing his organization and its motives to Tyrion, fuck off D&D. And what's this defending the downtrodden nonsense from him? He's a fucking Targ loyalist. Not to mention they're having him go off on Tyrion adventures instead of staying in King's Landing and owning shit up like he should. Fucking character assassination.

5.) Missandei and Grey Worm bullshit STILL. STILL. STILLLLLLL. Really D&D?! You have to cut Euron, Victarion, Wyman, Aegon, Connington, and nearly everything else that makes the most-ASOS books interesting yet you still have the time to include fucking Missandei and Grey Worm scissoring?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?

6.) Characterizing the Faith Militant has some sort of fanatical homophobic ISIS instead of the charitable people's army of war refugees they are in the book. D&D are unable to place themselves in a medieval society, instead inserting the "Hurrrr religion bad" 2015 worldview into somewhere it doesn't even belong. Believe it or not, the Faith Militant/Sparrows are not meant to be antagonists unless you're Cersei.

7.) Oh look, it's Loras. I wonder how long until D&D reference that he's gay. Oh, that was about 1 minute. You realize in the books it's just heavily implied Loras is gay and he has an actual personality/character traits besides being a running gay joke/reference? D&D are unable to take characters outside of their diversity quota mold.

8.) Brienne actually ran into BOTH Stark girls by sheer coincidence. Do D&D think Westeros is the size of Disneyland or something?!

9.) What the fuck is with this bullshit Sansa-Winterfell storyline. You know they're going to Winterfell based on the trailer. So Stop trying to force "Dark Sansa" (I didn't even coin this fucking bullshit cringey term) down our throats and stop making LF out to be an idiot. Fucking strong independent women Sophie Turner bad acting bullcrap.

10.) Mereen ALREADY FUCKING SURRENDERED. BRAVO D&D. There goes the entire battle of book 5 and half of its material. Why even bother with the Sons of the Harpy when Yunkai is doing nothing?! This is so nonsensical, first they're desperate for Dany material to adapt then they take out her biggest fucking challenge after arriving in Slaver's Bay. I guess this season will just be Dany bitching about MUH DRAGONS again.

11.) That fucking stupid kid that killed Ygritte is a recurring character now? Oh fuck off with that crap. I bet they'll have him kill Stannis, Jon, and the Night's King while they're at it.

12.) There's no indication or foreshadowing that really wasn't Mance, like in the books. If they killed him off for good, fuck you D&D.

Don't worry folks, I'll be here all season, reminding you why the books are better.

You seem to speak my language. Everything here is what I complain about to my friends haha

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But that was the first thing I wondered about. How could he eat and shit in there?

Me too, glad they gave us the answer. Normally those things are never answered while they are quite important :lol:

The debate between Mance and Jon was absurd. Mance was just about to invade Westeros to march south and it would be a war he knew he could not win. So along comes, here is a great deal that will save a lot of wildlings, specifically women and children. They get land, and made citizens of Westeros and the men just have to do the same thing they were doing but for a different king. "Ummm No I won't except." Why? "Cause"

WTF was that? That was D&D going we don't want this character on the show anymore, bye bye. I don't want to help Stannis, I don't want to help the Wildlings, I just wnt to die. That's pride "no" then what is it? "Cause" So mance would rather let tens of thousands of women and children die, then bend the knee? Nice. And why? Because he didn't want to fight a war, that was already going to be fought by him. What a train wreck of a scene, and Jon who is usually good at negotiating in the books, is basically like, well ok then. Next time just skip the scene and kill the dude for attacking Westeros.

Actually, in one way it would be strange Mance would have knelt to Stannis as it would be strange as he did that in the finale of last season. While he wants to save his people, would he give up his freedom and the freedom of people to do that? Would he not give them that as their own choice? Stannis was only planning to use them. They would not be the free folk any longer.

You are probably right it is strange he didn't choose to save his people but how many would have died in the war between Stannis and Bolton.

I am however probably biased because I don't want a Stannis/Wildling and Roose/Vale(?) war instead of a "Northern civil war". I still hope the Wildlings would be save from the WW/Others but not when they become Stannis' army.

Stannis is hilarious.

Season 3:

Stannis: The Usurper Robb Stark, WOOT yeah he's dead killed by his own bannermen.

Season 5:

Stannis: The traitor Roose Bolton who planted his knife in Robb Stark's heart? I'm going to mount his head on a spike.

Roose: NOTHING I DO IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU!

:agree: And didn't Stannis "leeched" Robb. So avenging someone's murder while you wanted that someone death? Stil he gets the support then from the Northern bannermen (however they are totally not mentioned in this episode). It is however one way to manipulate Jon into doing what he wants. How to convince Jon: 1) save thousands of wildlings, 2) revenge on his death murder. It is actually the only reason why Stannis would so be interested in avenging Robb. Or maybe he wants to punish Roose for the murder?

It looks to me like if we are being set up to eventually see Sweetrobin again. He'll come back having taken a level in badass from Lord Royce's School for Knights and Squires it seems--confirming my suspicions that they're just going to merge Sweetrobin and Harry the Heir into one person in a later season (if either has a greater role to play) (...)

It is known SR will be the ruler of Westeros.

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Well Stannis wanted Jon to join him. He could hardly say , so I tried to kill your brother by magic JOIN THE TEAM.



That would be ridiculous.


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Well Stannis wanted Jon to join him. He could hardly say , so I tried to kill your brother by magic JOIN THE TEAM.

That would be ridiculous.

Indeed. But like I said, I believe Stannis was manipulating Jon.

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My issue with the whole Sansa going to Winterfell thing is that I'm pretty sure we did the fArya thing back in season 3/4 when Jaime showed up in King's Landing. Did something happen to Jeyne along the way?


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Mance's argument is basically the free folk aren't going to follow Stannis no matter what he does. If he saves his own skin, they will disown him and do whatever they want and die, and if he burns its the same fate.

So he rather die, then bend the knee since his choice doesn't matter.

Also maybe they will actually go along with the Rattleshirt plot and this was Mance knowing he wasn't going to die? I mean I DOUBT they do that plot point, but who knows?

That's how I understood it, too.

Edited by TheReal_Rebel

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You are probably right it is strange he didn't choose to save his people but how many would have died in the war between Stannis and Bolton.

Less than all of them.

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My issue with the whole Sansa going to Winterfell thing is that I'm pretty sure we did the fArya thing back in season 3/4 when Jaime showed up in King's Landing. Did something happen to Jeyne along the way?

When did that happen? Did I miss something?

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Just why does Stannis need the Wildings for Winterfell? He seemed to have a VERY LARGE army of mounted men in season 4.

By the by where the hell are about 5000 horse quartered anyway, what do they eat?

That army camped outside Castle Black?

Well that was never exactly explained in Dance either!

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Just why does Stannis need the Wildings for Winterfell? He seemed to have a VERY LARGE army of mounted men in season 4.

By the by where the hell are about 5000 horse quartered anyway, what do they eat?

That army camped outside Castle Black?

Well that was never exactly explained in Dance either!

No wonder the NW was running low on food.

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And the show finally named all three dragons.

I guess Cogman said , in story conference, "You know it's been five years and only Drogon got a name." A beat... "O gosh!"

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Even knowing she was not in episode 1 , still surprises me , considering the ending of episode 10 last year of season 4, there was no segue to Arya , even if it was only seconds long.

It may have been mentioned , I must have read two dozen reviews of Ep1, but don't remember mention of Ian Gelder being in it.

I knew we knew he was there but I remember a lot of speculation about where was Kevan , or that he was not going even be in season 5.

Edited by boojam

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The Cliff Notes history reminder gives us Lancel but no Kevan.

Sort of expected a longer 'gouge' flash reminder for unsullied covering seasons 1 - 4.

So, opening credits , the Eyrie, a stand in for the Vale...

.... well ...still, what the hell happened to the Eyrie season 4?

The Dreadfort because it's mentioned in dialog ... OK, so what happened to the Eyrie in season 4?!

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