KozySauce Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 The scene I'm talking about is the Ides of Marsh, there's been a lot of speculation about how the show will handle this scene, how it might change it and whatnot... but I've yet to see someone bring this up as far as I can tell. In the books, we all know that it's possible for skinchangers to live on in their animals after they die... and when Jon gets stabbed it's implied that he may have done some last second warging... but it's left mostly in the open. I think the show will expand on this scene a little bit... it will go mostly the same, Jon will give his Shieldhall speech, he leaves... something causes a huge commotion (I'm hoping Wun Wun makes an appearance but you never know...), in the confusion Jon is attacked by Marsh and co. and he whispers "Ghost..." but then, instead of Jon just falling into the snow and the screen cutting to black...Jon get's stabbed a final time, we get a clear shot of his eyes rolling to the back of his head, then he falls into the snow... cut to black, end of season. Or end of episode 9, either way this is the last we see of Jon for s5. Now, I know what you may be thinking... that this would spoil a huge plot point for Winds and season 6... that Jon warged into Ghost before his death. It would ruin the suspense of whether or not he's truly dead, and that's true... but I think it's very possible the show may do this. Here's why: 1. Jon is clearly a warg in the books, but not in the show. As far as I can tell, it hasn't been established at all in the show that any Stark child besides Bran is a warg. Now, the show could be making Bran the only warg to give his story more weight... but I think revealing at least one more Stark as a warg (or more) would be a great twist for the show. They have that sweet Undertaker warging effect going on, if Jon does actually warg Ghost... they kind of have to show this (they could leave it until s6 or leave out the warging entirely to maintain suspense... but I doubt they'll do either), and show-only people would go insane if not only does Jon get stabbed... but he also wargs right before what seems like his death. This would be a huge cliffhanger for show-watchers and a little nod to book readers. 2. I think Varamyr has been cast for season 5, but even without Varamyr we still had that scene with Orell in season 3 to set-up the concept of skinchanging to cheat death... I think most Unsullied will remember this scene and seeing Jon do it should jog people's memories if they forgot. Add in a scene with Varamyr, and we've got the perfect set-up. 3. It doesn't spoil anything we don't already know. For real, it's no secret that Jon warging into Ghost to survive is a very, very strong possibility. It was set-up with the Varamyr POV, and we know Jon is a powerful warg. We still won't find out the specifics of his death, if he even died, if he's really in Ghost or if that was just a red-herring until Winds or season 6 comes out. We'll know that he did in fact warg Ghost if they decide to reveal it, but is that really a big surprise for book readers? I don't think so. For show-only peeps, this does give them an idea that Jon may not really be dead... but I think another utterly hopeless death scene wouldn't surprise show-watchers as much as a death scene with a supernatural reveal tied in. It would make them immediately speculate on what Jon warging means, connect the dots with Ghost and then the s6 hype would be real. It might even make some people pick up the books to pass the time or get a better understanding... who knows, I just think this would make the scene better for the show. In the books, the POV aspect allows for very subtle hints about things. The show doesn't have this luxury, if they do have Jon warg Ghost, how else could they portray him doing so? Jon whispering Ghost and falling to the ground would suffice if Jon was already established as a warg, but he's not. Maybe that's where Varamyr comes in? We might get a scene with him calling Jon a warg or something, idk... Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HousePotterz Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 That last part is interesting, about Varamyr. He is definitely cast, so we know he's going to show up somewhere. Seems likely that will be Hardhome, although if Jon opens the gates to the Wildlings before the Hardhome expedition, maybe he's with that batch. Given that Varamyr's only real purpose in the books is to show what happens to a warg when their human body dies, I can't see him being cast unless the intention was to use him in some way similar. In ADWD Prologue, Varamyr clearly identifies Jon Snow as a warg, so perhaps he is going to be in a scene telling Jon Snow that he is a warg but doesn't know it yet. Stranger things have happened. As for the scene itself, I wouldn't hold out hope for Wun Wun. It's gotta cost big bucks to render a giant onscreen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoman32 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 If they are going to show that Jon is a warg, then giving him wolf dreams like they did with Bran would make sense and would give the viewers visual evidence rather than Jon being told he is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowGOAT Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 That last part is interesting, about Varamyr. He is definitely cast, so we know he's going to show up somewhere. Seems likely that will be Hardhome, although if Jon opens the gates to the Wildlings before the Hardhome expedition, maybe he's with that batch. Given that Varamyr's only real purpose in the books is to show what happens to a warg when their human body dies, I can't see him being cast unless the intention was to use him in some way similar. In ADWD Prologue, Varamyr clearly identifies Jon Snow as a warg, so perhaps he is going to be in a scene telling Jon Snow that he is a warg but doesn't know it yet. Stranger things have happened. As for the scene itself, I wouldn't hold out hope for Wun Wun. It's gotta cost big bucks to render a giant onscreen. Yup. I suspect Varamyr's role on the show is to tell Jon that he is a warg... The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it. Episode #7 is titled "The Gift". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoman32 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Yup. I suspect Varamyr's role on the show is to tell Jon that he is a warg... The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it. Episode #7 is titled "The Gift". Great catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zehde Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 I assumed "The Gift" means the piece of land southwards of the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowGOAT Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 I assumed "The Gift" means the piece of land southwards of the wall. These titles usually have multiple meanings. Like "Winter is Coming" or "Fire and Blood" or "The Children" etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 There was an image of Hardhome. Jon looking out on the water with what I think was Edd, Sam and a giant in the background. I'm assuming that giant is Wun Wun since they all have their backs to a freakin Giant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natasi Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Is Bowen Marsh even cast in the show? If not, who would do the deed, Thorne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar Jaime Tyrell Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Is Bowen Marsh even cast in the show? If not, who would do the deed, Thorne? Cant be Throne we wont have that Brutus moment. Must be someone he likes, I think it will be the little boy. The wildlings killed his family and the NW is his new family and it will be dramatic and a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smizzle Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Is Bowen Marsh even cast in the show? If not, who would do the deed, Thorne? Yes he was cast for this season and even appeared in the first episode. The actor playing him is Michael Condron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowed Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I am convinced it will be Olly, just see the look he gives Jon as he walks away from the Mance burning in episode 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I think most Unsullied will remember this scene and seeing Jon do it should jog people's memories if they forgot. Add in a scene with Varamyr, and we've got the perfect set-up. See this the Big flaw. i feel like most cannot remember who kevan is in that scene if they started the scene with cersei saying: "hello my uncle Kevan" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HousePotterz Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Is Bowen Marsh even cast in the show? If not, who would do the deed, Thorne? He is cast, but he hasn't really shown up yet. I think he has to be the chief assassin. Alliser Thorne is just too obvious, and besides it appears as though he and Jon have established a begrudging respect for each other. They seem to be building up Olly as perhaps a part of the plot, but I don't think they'd have a 10 year old recruit mastermind the assassination. Interesting that Episode 7 is titled "The Gift." That is indeed a great catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 He is cast, but he hasn't really shown up yet. I think he has to be the chief assassin. Alliser Thorne is just too obvious, and besides it appears as though he and Jon have established a begrudging respect for each other. They seem to be building up Olly as perhaps a part of the plot, but I don't think they'd have a 10 year old recruit mastermind the assassination. Interesting that Episode 7 is titled "The Gift." That is indeed a great catch. Olly is going to be the first or last stab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intheswamp Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I came up with a crackpot theory that Satin was in on the betrayal of Jon (not that I really believe it). And, Olly is pretty much taking Satin's role on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagganaro Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 yeah I would be pretty pissed if the show cut out the warg stuff. As was mentioned above, the casting of Varamyr leads me to believe we will get a lot of warg-related stuff leading up to the Ides. He will really be the one to get Jon to explore his gift more. Although I do wonder where Ghost has been lol...It's been a while since he's been seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoman32 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 yeah I would be pretty pissed if the show cut out the warg stuff. As was mentioned above, the casting of Varamyr leads me to believe we will get a lot of warg-related stuff leading up to the Ides. He will really be the one to get Jon to explore his gift more. Although I do wonder where Ghost has been lol...It's been a while since he's been seen. He was in episode 1 this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 yeah I would be pretty pissed if the show cut out the warg stuff. As was mentioned above, the casting of Varamyr leads me to believe we will get a lot of warg-related stuff leading up to the Ides. He will really be the one to get Jon to explore his gift more. Although I do wonder where Ghost has been lol...It's been a while since he's been seen. Also.... Arya used Warging to complete one of her FM missions while blind, in the books. Might be an idea to introduce the concept of other Stark kids, besides Bran being Wargs at roughly the same time. If that makes it into the show, it'll be curious to see if Nymeria + wolfpack also make it in, and also whether or not Sansa has any warging powers, since her arc is derailing from the books so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I am convinced it will be Olly, just see the look he gives Jon as he walks away from the Mance burning in episode 1.And the quote during the conversation with Stannis and Davos. The frame immediately shifts to Ollie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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