Jorah, What a pathetic excuse of a man.

[GallowsKnight]

I don't think prostitution in ASOIAF has the same extreme negative connotations for Johns as it does in the real world.

I have had girls (not employees mind you, I have only ever employed dudes, not a lot of girls in my business field) that I have let down who I see later down the road with guys who look a lot like me.

People have types, especially guys. I like redheads with a little meat on them, Jorah likes skinny blonde girls like Lynese and Daenerys. His type was established before Daenerys came along. Of course he is going to pick the girl (or whore) that fits his type.

If the blanket statement is that all the guys in ASOIAF who go whoring are creepy thats an opinion and someone is welcome to it I guess. I could fill a whole page with characters who are known to go whoring (Tyrion, Oberyn, Sandor, Bronn, King Bob, Edmure, Tywin, Jonas Bracken, on and on) who aren't considered "creepy" by the masses.

If the statement is that Jorah is creepy because he has a type and picks a girl who fits his type I can't agree with that.

I not saying that visiting prostitutes is creepy in that first statement. I'm saying that the girls in that brothel weren't prostitute but rather sex slaves. They didn't have even the barest consent the Westerosi prostitutes have. That's the unsavoury thing. Slavery being illegal in Westeros. Sleeping with a slave would be looked at poorly. Sleeping with a prostitute is just a quirk.

I think we can argue the creepy thing all day. But your original statement was that it was "childish" to think it's creepy. It's pretty dismissive when even if you don't think it's creepy, evidently other here do.

[RobertRivers]

I've always felt a little pity for jorah ever since we learned about Lynesse Hightower. I'm almost surprised he didn't sell Longclaw.

I thought he was a total badass in the Tyrion winds of winter chapter.

I wonder if his Rams head helmet and breastplate with nipples have any hidden meaning to them on the symbolic level.

[Nictarion]

I have to admit Iain Glen has actually made me like Jorah quite a bit. I think he's a very well written character, and right up there with Sandor, Varys, LF, Oberyn, Stannis, etc as far as best non pov characters.

I would really like to see him reunited with Dany, and for her to forgive him. Or at the very least for him to find some redemption by joining the NW.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

I have to admit Iain Glen has actually made me like Jorah quite a bit. I think he's a very well written character, and right up there with Sandor, Varys, LF, Oberyn, Stannis, etc as far as best non pov characters.

I would really like to see him reunited with Dany, and for her to forgive him. Or at the very least for him to find some redemption by joining the NW.

I agree with this. He should find some solace after all his troubles.

[BitsOfBrains]

I not saying that visiting prostitutes is creepy in that first statement. I'm saying that the girls in that brothel weren't prostitute but rather sex slaves. They didn't have even the barest consent the Westerosi prostitutes have. That's the unsavoury thing. Slavery being illegal in Westeros. Sleeping with a slave would be looked at poorly. Sleeping with a prostitute is just a quirk.

I think we can argue the creepy thing all day. But your original statement was that it was "childish" to think it's creepy. It's pretty dismissive when even if you don't think it's creepy, evidently other here do.

I can see that point, but whenever I see people arguing him being creepy they always bring up the girl looking like Daenerys as the creepy part.

[Hoffa]

Viserys is another one Jorah betrayed. Say what you want about Viserys. but Jorah swore his sword to him and he betrayed him for the female counterpart of him.

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

He would have come in handy under his father on the wall. He is obviously a talented fighter, and there isn't much hot nookie on the wall, and hot nookie is his vice. Until Melisandre shows up then he would have fallen in love with her.

[Nictarion]

He would have come in handy under his father on the wall. He is obviously a talented fighter, and there isn't much hot nookie on the wall, and hot nookie is his vice. Until Melisandre shows up then he would have fallen in love with her.

Nah, Jorah has a thing for blondes. He'd probably fall for Val.

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

Nah, Jorah has a thing for blondes. He'd probably fall for Val.

Was his wife blonde? I thought he was just a punk to any hot chick.

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

Nah, Jorah has a thing for blondes. He'd probably fall for Val.

Was his wife blonde? I thought he was just a punk to any hot chick.

[Nictarion]

Was his wife blonde? I thought he was just a punk to any hot chick.

His second wife Lynesse who he disgraced himself for looked like Dany.

[Lord BitterRaven]

When it comes to Jorah and his heart, yes, he is quite the pathetic excuse for a knight lol. Going to the Wall would've been honorable but it would've cost him the wife he tried so hard to hold onto.

His heart aside, he is a brilliant commander and advisor to daenerys and it was a huge mistake for her to dismiss him. And I think she's starting to realize that. And while I really like Barristan, he's too chivalrous to be a great advisor.

End result, Daenerys loses control of two cities and is rebelled against. That could've been avoided if she hadn't dismissed the pathetic excuse for a man Jorah Mormont lol.

Of course he wouldn't have been dismissed if he would've swallowed his pride like Barristan had.

[NorthGirl]

I agree with this. He should find some solace after all his troubles.

Oh poor him. He broke the law and he was going to be punished!? :stunned: :blink: Blasphemy! And now, after forgoing to at least pretend feeling apologetic about spying on Dany UNTIL QARTH and only asking forgiveness after he realised she was pissed, she exiled him instead of killing him. Poor Jorah, getting it so tough. He did absolutely nothing to deserve this treatment.

I can see that point, but whenever I see people arguing him being creepy they always bring up the girl looking like Daenerys as the creepy part.

What's creepy is how it points to the level of fetishisation that went with his love for Daenerys. Also, the fact that he thought "that's what I'll do for the rest of my days! Fuck Dany 2.0 = Lynesse 3.0 and waste away, I will certainly not look for a way to help her from afar or try to infiltrate KL, feed her anonymous info. Oh wait! here's THE imp! Maybe I can redeem myself and she won't want Daario anymore! She wouldn't marry him or anyone else, no sir. Somewhere deep, deep, deep, etc. down inside, she wants me. If I creep and scowl at other men long enough, it will work." His story basically said "I chose a wife who didn't love me for me, she got annoyed after we got poor. I broke the law and she abandoned me and now I saw you as Lynesse 2.0 so I decided to betray Viserys for you because I want to screw you. Also, don't listen to anyone with a penis even if they're 70 and obviously don't want to have sex with you, you should only listen to me! Because it's not like any woman has ever led you astray or hurt you...Oh wait" Yep! Nothing creepy about his affections at all. Total class act. Gentleman of the year.

[Caius Cassius]

Iain Glen really warped my reading of him. Show!Jorah seems a lot more noble, a man who fucked up but generally isn't bad. Book!Jorah only started to hit me as a dick when he meets Tyrion and treats him like shit.

I don't think he'll live to take the black. If he's lucky, he gets Redemption Equals Death saving Dany. Knowing GRRM, he probably won't. But yeah, if he had honour, he would have fallen on his sword long ago.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

I love Jorah! OP I will defend him from you to the death!! :fighting:

However I definitely agree with you on several aspects. He is a coward who refuses to take responsibility for his past actions. He's prideful to the point of self-harm. But I find all of this to be deeply understandable. Like, he really should have asked for forgiveness of Dany - how hard would that be? His actions really cold have killed her or her son. But if he had, he would t be the same person, and wouldn't have been as useful to Dany in other situations. For example, a more submissive/less headstrong Jorah wouldn't have told her that her brother was a moron who would never be king. Hed never have suggested she buy the unsullied, and thus she never would have freed them. He'd never have kissed her ( have stayed quiet about his feelings like poor, spine less TVJorah).

In sum, Jorah is a deeply flawed man, weak in many ways, but strong in many as well. He has a good head on his shoulders, and I have no issue with Him being Loyal to Dany AND also wanting to fuck her. Unlike the TV version he is NOT a doormat - he stands up to Dany when he feels he should unlike some others coughBarrycough. He is not a pathetic woman pleaser/cuckold or whatever sexist BS some of you are spouting. He just happens to be someone who is both cynical and practical AND deeply romantic. I can dig it.

I think Jorah will either die, or learn how to balance his romantic feelings with reality a bit better, and serve Dany wrll. There is a bit of an issue in that u think that much of his tole will end up being usurped not by Barristan as he feared, but rather by Tyrion, who shares many of Jrahs world views, but knows a lot more about Westeros and is brilliant besides. We'll see if he can manage to smother his pride a bit and accept being only one of many of her advisors.

[kieran wilkie]

As for him selling those poachers...well its better than what I would have done to them XD.

For not joining the nw...well can you blame someone for not wanting to spend the rest of their lives freezing, under the threat of death constantly, and (officially) not being able to be with another woman. Sounds pretty shit, so I'm not blaming him for that (thats the weakest argument against him i've heard so far.. not joining the nw)

He is quite creepy with Dany yes, but the sex slave thing was summed up already by someone. He has a type, can he be blamed for going after that type. I'll admit the fact she was similar to Dany probably played a part in his descision, but as as was said, i wouldn't expect him to go after a different type that he's not interested in to just not come across as creepy to...who the reader? i don't think he's aware of us watching him XD.

About spying on her, well at first he didn't know her so i can't blame him for that, once he liked her he becomes a bit of an asshole for not coming clean, not a big ass hole, cause i just think he was biding his time to "break it gently"

And not admitting his mistakes could be argued as dickish, but then have you admitted all yours? i haven't and i can admit it, but then i still feel justified

And for hating Ned Stark, well yes he was in the wrong, but the man is still ultimately out to kill him so its understandable he'd hate him,

if you stole a guys orange and he wanted to kill you for it you'd obviously be in the wrong, and you'd know it, but that wouldn't stop you hating the person trying to take your life.

The only problem i have with books and discussions from them (and ficiton in general) is that everyone expects people to give up their life either in redemption or for the "greater good", i think you fail to realise that within these worlds it isn't simply a "and he died" now time to reread so they come back to life.

In these universes these are their lives, your asking them to just die. there is no re-read, there is no fan fic. once they die their dead, just like in real life. Would you be so willing to die even if you'd done some wrong? No, why, because this isn't a book, game or film, once you'r gone you'r and theres fuck all you can do, so can you blame someone for wanting to stall that day when it all ends?

[BitsOfBrains]

What's creepy is how it points to the level of fetishisation that went with his love for Daenerys. Also, the fact that he thought "that's what I'll do for the rest of my days! Fuck Dany 2.0 = Lynesse 3.0 and waste away, I will certainly not look for a way to help her from afar or try to infiltrate KL, feed her anonymous info. Oh wait! here's THE imp! Maybe I can redeem myself and she won't want Daario anymore! She wouldn't marry him or anyone else, no sir. Somewhere deep, deep, deep, etc. down inside, she wants me. If I creep and scowl at other men long enough, it will work." His story basically said "I chose a wife who didn't love me for me, she got annoyed after we got poor. I broke the law and she abandoned me and now I saw you as Lynesse 2.0 so I decided to betray Viserys for you because I want to screw you. Also, don't listen to anyone with a penis even if they're 70 and obviously don't want to have sex with you, you should only listen to me! Because it's not like any woman has ever led you astray or hurt you...Oh wait" Yep! Nothing creepy about his affections at all. Total class act. Gentleman of the year.

There is a difference between fetishization and having a type. So your assuming all he did everyday was loiter in whore houses fucking blond girls? Come on, He didn't have any money so he obviously is somehow gainfully employed otherwise he couldn't afford wine/whores/lodging/food/gloves. When he finds a way to redeem himself (I can't understand why he would crawl back to her but like I said he suffers from "nice guy disease") he drops whatever gainful employment he has and marches back to Mereen. A lot of girls would think thats romantic, dropping your entire life to do a favor for a girl, but I guess because he is ugly he is creepy.

I do agree that he is an ass for betraying Viserys for Dany, but again thats more of a pathetic "nice guy disease" symptom than anything else.

[Mikkel]

What's funny is that so many are bending over backwards trying to justify what he "did to Dany", as if that was anywhere near his biggest crime.

Spying on her was Jorah's closest bid to actually doing something honorable (serving the King and his council in a dangerous duty, in order to atone for his previous crime), but I can't really blame him for balking at the assassination of a near-child, even if his reasons for doing so came from between his legs.

After that he's basically just providing prudent advice to Dany, even if his advice is often morally bankrupt (which influences Dany a lot, she just hasn't realized it yet, along with most of her fans).

[Hoffa]

The love angle with him and Dany was never intended in my OP. In fact i never saw that as a big of a problem. He likes blondes, so what?

To me he is a despicable man because he can't man up and admit he is a total coward.

[Hoffa]

The Wall is supposed to be something honorable to the northen familyes. He would most likely have an high offices, given his father is the fucking LC. But Noooooo. Lets blame the Ned.

COWARD!!!!