VicAndTheSquidSquad Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Did Manderly brake the guest right when he baked the Frey pie?This is probably an already discussed topic but I couldn't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Nah. He gave them leaving "guest gifts" which were really fast horses so they rode ahead and disappeared. Then he had them made into pies. He had them killed/cooked after they left White Harbour, and the guest gifts symbolise this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Did Manderly brake the guest right when he baked the Frey pie?No...He had hoped to hear Lord Wyman say, And now I shall declare for King Stannis, but instead the fat man smiled an odd, twinkling smile and said, "And now I have a wedding to attend. I am too fat to sit a horse, as any man with eyes can plainly see. As a boy I loved to ride, and as a young man I handled a mount well enough to win some small acclaim in the lists, but those days are done. My body has become a prison more dire than the Wolf's Den. Even so, I must go to Winterfell. Roose Bolton wants me on my knees, and beneath the velvet courtesy he shows the iron mail. I shall go by barge and litter, attended by a hundred knights and my good friends from the Twins. The Freys came here by sea. They have no horses with them, so I shall present each of them with a palfrey as a guest gift. Do hosts still give guest gifts in the south?""Some do, my lord. On the day their guest departs.""Perhaps you understand, then." Wyman Manderly lurched ponderously to his feet. Davos IV, Dance 29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in The Mount Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I guess that feeding the pies to the Boltons in Winterfell could count as a breach in guest right, if you consider the Boltons as hosts and Manderly as a guest. But since Winterfell belongs to the Starks and the Boltons are kind of squatting there I think this situation is kind of grey regarding guest right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grissom Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 But didn't Manderly kill the Freys when they were his guests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHOSTSTARK Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 But didn't Manderly kill the Freys when they were his guests? no, they were on the road to Winterfell when the boys "came up missing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grissom Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 no, they were on the road to Winterfell when the boys "came up missing" So they no longer counted as guests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grissom Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I guess that feeding the pies to the Boltons in Winterfell could count as a breach in guest right, if you consider the Boltons as hosts and Manderly as a guest. But since Winterfell belongs to the Starks and the Boltons are kind of squatting there I think this situation is kind of grey regarding guest right.I don't think that would count as a breach of guest right, even if you consider the bolton and manderly as host and guest. He is just feeding them human flesh, not a breach in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in The Mount Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 So they no longer counted as guests? Yep, once you give parting gifts and the leave they are no longer guests. I think that feeding human flesh to someone count as a slight. That could be just me though. But it could be argued taht insulting someone under guest right is allowed, so I don't think there is a definite answer (until GRRM says so) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Manderly is an evil monster!!1! (or so he would be called if he was a Lannister and not a Stark supporter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Aha^ Welcome to fandom.I mean morally Manderly is in the wrong. You lost, get over it. And cannibilism... woah.But the fan in me is happy that Manderly got revenge for his son and eating them is pretty bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Aha^ Welcome to fandom.I mean morally Manderly is in the wrong. You lost, get over it. And cannibilism... woah.But the fan in me is happy that Manderly got revenge for his son and eating them is pretty bold. He wanted revenge for his son, certainly, but also revenge for Robb Stark, Lady Hornwood, and his own murdered Bannermen and retainers. The last is often overlooked. Lord Manderly is the second or third greatest Lord in the North (and certainly the richest). He needs to demonstrate that you don't murder men who are sworn to him without paying a very high price for it. The other Manderlys at the wedding banquet in Winterfell would have known very well what was in the pies, and would have relished every mouthful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The best part was Manderly feeding ithe Freys their own kin, lol I need him to tell them this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 He wanted revenge for his son, certainly, but also revenge for Robb Stark, Lady Hornwood, and his own murdered Bannermen and retainers. The last is often overlooked. Lord Manderly is the second or third greatest Lord in the North (and certainly the richest). He needs to demonstrate that you don't murder men who are sworn to him without paying a very high price for it. The other Manderlys at the wedding banquet in Winterfell would have known very well what was in the pies, and would have relished every mouthful. The Frey's are not responsible for Lady Hornwood. That preceded the Red Wedding. I really do not think Manderly gives a shit about his soldiers. Besides, it's not like his common soldiers were sitting in the main hall during the wedding. The vengeance is only for his son. And vengeance isn't a good habit, we already know what the Frey's think of him, and any more proof and Manderly is toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The Frey's are not responsible for Lady Hornwood. That preceded the Red Wedding. I really do not think Manderly gives a shit about his soldiers. Besides, it's not like his common soldiers were sitting in the main hall during the wedding. The vengeance is only for his son. And vengeance isn't a good habit, we already know what the Frey's think of him, and any more proof and Manderly is toast. Whether he cares about them isn't the point (and the common soldiers were also massacred). He has to show that he's avenging them, in order to demonstrate what happens to those who harm House Manderly and its servants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Whether he cares about them isn't the point (and the common soldiers were also massacred). He has to show that he's avenging them, in order to demonstrate what happens to those who harm House Manderly and its servants. He does? That's what he was trying not to do, so he can get Wendel back. Now he has Wendel he isn't obligated too do so. It's risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blow My Horn Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Now what do you really think will happen to Manderly if people find out? He's a very prominent lord whose house Bolton needs for manpower, trade and strategic location. Both Bolton and Frey are despised within their own regions by houses great and small so killing Wyman turns him into a martyr. However not killing him makes them look weak. They are effectively screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dornish Whine Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Manderly was careful to fulfill his duties towards Guest Right while the Freys were in White Harbor. The giving a guest gift symbolizes the end of the protection granted by Guest Right. What is more interesting is in regards to Guest Right in occupied Winterfell. I do not recall whether the Boltons made any show of invoking Guest Right at Winterfell, but there was a feast and the offering of bread and salt could be said to have been fulfilled. The tricky part is whether the Boltons could even invoke Guest Right at Winterfell since their claim on the castle is based off of a false marriage. In the eyes of men kept ignorant the Guest Right at Winterfell could be said to be valid, but in the eyes of the Gods, I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Manderly was not under guest rights at Winterfell either because he is the 1 that brought the food, the Bolstons never offered him bread and salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuteman Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I seriously doubt Manderly actually put human flesh in the pies. They were described as pork and very large. Likely he killed the Frey's and fed their bodies to three large pigs that were then slaughtered for the pies. To my knowledge refrigeration isn't in widespread use in Westeros so meat has to be baked shortly after butchering. It just isn't conceivable that they were killed in Winterfell and there was ample time to fatten three pigs on the Frey's during his transit there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.