Bright Blue Eyes Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 He ate I think two slices from each pie, Roose didn't eat anything until he saw Manderly eat it, so Wyman ate it. And glowed with joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Manderly is probably under the same impression as Roose, that he won't survive through the winter. Also, he had to eat the pie, otherwise no one would trust it. He was 'taking one for the team.'He took six for the team. With pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Dragonzzilla Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I always assumed Manderly killed the Freys once they were no longer his guests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGirl Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Did Manderly brake the guest right when he baked the Frey pie?This is probably an already discussed topic but I couldn't find it.It's not the Freys' home, it's the Boltons' on paper and the Starks' as far as the whole North is concerned so I don't think it applies. It might be breaking good faith and peace treaties so it might be technically oathbreaking but I'm pretty sure it's not guest right being violated since the Freys are not inviting the Manderlys into WF. If he also baked some Boltons' loyalists that might be different but even then, it would be only Roose, Ramsay and Fat Walda under that protection. But that's my head canon of guest right so I might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jak Scaletongue Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 He ate I think two slices from each pie, Roose didn't eat anything until he saw Manderly eat it, so Wyman ate it.Maybe the pies were half pork/half people - he just knew which half was which? Not everyone needs a piece of Frey, just a select few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Septon Maester Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 They were no longer his guests when he had them axed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaver's Dread Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 It's not the Freys' home, it's the Boltons' on paper and the Starks' as far as the whole North is concerned so I don't think it applies. It might be breaking good faith and peace treaties so it might be technically oathbreaking but I'm pretty sure it's not guest right being violated since the Freys are not inviting the Manderlys into WF. If he also baked some Boltons' loyalists that might be different but even then, it would be only Roose, Ramsay and Fat Walda under that protection. But that's my head canon of guest right so I might be wrong.Wyman brought the food, so o font think guest rights are applicable in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Manderly is an evil monster!!1! (or so he would be called if he was a Lannister and not a Stark supporter)Plenty of people acknowledge it was gross and disturbing. Try again with you woe is me Lannisters are victims spiel though, maybe you'll have more luck next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cladinator Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 He gave the Freys parting gifts releasing him from his obligations. Also, to be noted, is the fact that he pretty much provided all of the food in Winterfell.That might be important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Plenty of people acknowledge it was gross and disturbing. Try again with you woe is me Lannisters are victims spiel though, maybe you'll have more luck next time He didn't try with it though. He just pointed out that most fans are heavily partisan in this and so many Stark fans have cheered for Manderly due to him being pro-Stark while the same wouldn't happen from the same people in Manderly had not been pro-Stark and acted on people that were against the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 He didn't try with it though. He just pointed out that most fans are heavily partisan in this and so many Stark fans have cheered for Manderly due to him being pro-Stark while the same wouldn't happen from the same people in Manderly had not been pro-Stark and acted on people that were against the Starks.This exact scenario did happen though. Wylis and others were fed a nice helping of Vargo Hoat by the Mountain.But readers don't find the first act of cannibalism terrible and the second sweet revenge because Lannister v Stark. Manderly seems to have just cause for revenge. The Mountain just does it to be a dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Sorry repeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Sorry repeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Sorry repeat. Really botched this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 This exact scenario did happen though. Wylis and others were fed a nice helping of Vargo Hoat by the Mountain.But readers don't find the first act of cannibalism terrible and the second sweet revenge because Lannister v Stark. Manderly seems to have just cause for revenge. The Mountain just does it to be a dick Actually that isn't really true. Tywin knew that Vargo Hoat betrayed him and cut off Jaime's sword arm. Vargo being feed himself sounds pretty much like Gregor acting on orders to enact vengence on Vargo Hoat, and then going over the top as he usually does by feeding the rest goat as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Actually that isn't really true. Tywin knew that Vargo Hoat betrayed him and cut off Jaime's sword arm. Vargo being feed himself sounds pretty much like Gregor acting on orders to enact vengence on Vargo Hoat, and then going over the top as he usually does by feeding the rest goat as well.What's not true? I wasn't talking about Vargo eating himself. I was talking about him being fed to the northmen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor227 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Manderly followed the letter of the law rather than its spirit. Naturally, being murdered on the road by your host the instant you leave is another one of those things that discourages the diplomatic benefits of guest right. I don't think he really cared on the subject though. He applied guest right as something of a spiteful instrument of revenge, in a similar way that Walder Frey used a marriage to murder Robb Stark in revenge for a violated marriage oath. Manderly wanted some Freys to kill as revenge for his son. He had some on hand, and he used them for his farce with Davos, and then when it was time for them to go and head to Winterfell, murdered them. You can bet that if they planned to depart in a way that would keep them from being intercepted by him, he'd have arranged their deaths regardless of guest right. It was simply a matter of adding some irony to the revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsOfBrains Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Mannerly never broke guest right. He gave guest gifts which is the very end of guest right. A lot of people don't give guest gifts but he did because he wanted to follow the law to the letter. Guest right doesn't last forever otherwise some guy you fed one time would be immune from your harm for life. As to Winterfell he is clean there too. Winter fell belongs to the Starks not the Boltons and he only eats his own food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cladinator Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I don't understand all the butt-hurt with some posters on the forum. People calling other people fanboys and the like. It's a story. Yes, we all have our favorites but some people here approach the people, Houses, and factions as sports teams or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Manderly followed the letter of the law rather than its spirit. Naturally, being murdered on the road by your host the instant you leave is another one of those things that discourages the diplomatic benefits of guest right. I don't think he really cared on the subject though. He applied guest right as something of a spiteful instrument of revenge, in a similar way that Walder Frey used a marriage to murder Robb Stark in revenge for a violated marriage oath. Manderly wanted some Freys to kill as revenge for his son. He had some on hand, and he used them for his farce with Davos, and then when it was time for them to go and head to Winterfell, murdered them. You can bet that if they planned to depart in a way that would keep them from being intercepted by him, he'd have arranged their deaths regardless of guest right. It was simply a matter of adding some irony to the revenge. I've always presumed that (even with the gift giving) there is a grace period until the former guest can be killed. Maybe at the next sunset or dawn the two part company. I've seen that be a fairly standard feature of guest right in other literature, and being able to capture or kill the instant the guest leaves makes little sense in the context of other stories we have heard like Mance saying that if he had been discovered when he went to Winterfell to see Robert he would have been safe from arrest because of guest right.So I think the Freys were given a head start. If they had been smarter they would not have been lulled into thinking that they were forgiven by a man whose son they had murdered. If they had tried to elude capture they were on good horses so has a chance, or they could have stayed with their former hosts on the road so that the grace period never ended (the horses and his own slow pace were a trick to discourage this). Then there would have been an ambush or pursuit further up the road, which would also mean only 20-30 picked men knowing the truth not the whole caravan, and the secret being kept from the Boltons for longer.I disagree that if the Freys had stayed under guest right Manderly would have broken it to murder them. He's making a point by observing guest right - that they broke the greatest taboo and he is better than then because he will not, and their sins even make him breaking a lesser taboo justified. (We have a different hierarchy of taboos but the same princible might apply in stories with modern settings: murder is taboo, slow killing with torture is worse, but the hero may be allowed to torture a guy to death if the guy is a kiddie-fiddler). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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