AFFC Reread Project - Samwell (+Prologue)

[Jughead of the Round]

I think what was meant with the "Tywin is alive" comment is that Tywin was presently alive during that chapter, because Varys was mentioned as still being in power. That's all.

[HimOfTwoFaces]

Horas and Hobber sound like jerks. Now I don’t feel so bad for them being hostages.

I agree, but they probably weren't usually that bad. It's only natural they would be antagonistic toward someone meant to split them up, and marry their sister to boot.

[rpthomps]

Aemon hints that the WALL itself may be hiding something within it..."Fire consumes, but cold perserves. The Wall...but it is too late to go running back." (383)

BTW - what King was Aemon's father?

Error? Sam thinks "By now we might be at Duskendale, Sam thought mournfully. We might even have reached Pentos, if the winds were kind." This implies it that Pentos is further away than Duskendale. But wouldn't Pentos NOT be on their way to Oldtown?

[Old Zog]

Interesting thought on something being preserved within the Wall. I guess we'll find out when it (inevitably) falls.

But wouldn't Pentos NOT be on their way to Oldtown?

Hard to say, since we haven't seen any map of the Free Cities, let alone one which shows their relationship to Westeros. But the Narrow Sea is, presumably, narrow, so it's not necessarily strange to stop in the Free Cities on the way to Oldtown. Indeed, IIRC, the Cinnamon Wind stops at several of the Free Cities between Braavos and Oldtown.

[Happy Ent]

"Fire consumes, but cold perserves. The Wall...but it is too late to go running back."

Very good catch! I have no idea what that means, but there could be lots of interesting things preserved in the ice. Especially, things Targaryen.

A dragon, for example. Or Lord Bloodraven.

Or Baby Aemon Himself, of course. I believe it has been 10 days without anybody having spotted him anywhere. So crackpot theory of the week Baby Aemon is preserved under the Wall. He was brought to the Wall after Robert's Rebellion by Donal Noye (who hid the baby during the voyage north and fed him his own arm, so as not to arouse suspicion about missing food. That explains why he is missing an arm. And Noye's quarters are suspiciously close to the Wall. And he has access to a furnace and tools, which is just what you need to melt a small niche into the construction.

Timeline

The trip to Braavos was slow, it seems to have slowed down further since the storms of Sam II. The last part was made on oars alone, probably against the wind. After that, Sam's group stays at the inn for an unspecified amount of time. Aemon is ill. I guess this takes weeks. The ship they booked passage one left "days and days ago" says Arya. In fact, by now it could have reached Duskendale, if not Pentos. More weeks? Or just a week?

Be that as it may, the best fix on this chapter is Arya's timeline. I have been extremely tight with her intervals, since I knew the Sam chapter was coming, so the day she becomes Cat is April 25. She seems to have been doing this for days (at least)—she knows about individual bravos, about clam selling, about ships that have left "days and days ago", none of which she can have picked up in the temple. Let's say she has been Cat of the Canals for 10 days. That puts the meeting on

May 7 [sam III] meets Arya.

From Arya's timeline this looks ok. I am less happy about Sam's

21 Feb. Sam II Leaves Eastwatch...

16 Mar. Sam II ...Arrives Braavos

7 May. Sam III Meets Arya

These are very long intervals. According to these calculations, the trip by sea took almost a month (that's fine—the chapter accounts for 18 days explicitly, and that's before they switch to oars), and Maester Aemon is ill for 7 weeks!

Suggestions, anyone? Untuitively, I would like to push the wall events forward in time (that would suit the Small Countil meeting, which may be the first time we hear KL knowing of Jon's election).

Arboreal perspective

Finally a chapter where the value of wood is a central part of the plot! Finally a society that acknowledges that trees "don't grow on trees", so to speak! Though the chapter is otherwise treeless, this observation alone makes it great, a rival to Septon Meribald's wise monologue.

Ships

Another chapter that hits us over the head with which ships go where and when and how, just like we had in Brienne's Duskendale chapter. I am just unable to patch it all together. Is there anybody out there who could assemble an overview? Just ship names and routes would be enough.

[The Adequate Jon]

BTW - what King was Aemon's father?

Aemon's father was Maeker who we met in The Hedge Knight.

[HimOfTwoFaces]

Aemon hints that the WALL itself may be hiding something within it..."Fire consumes, but cold perserves. The Wall...but it is too late to go running back." (383)

When I first read that passage, I assumed it was connected to this:

". . . For me, these past years, only one question has remained. Why would the gods take my eyes and my strength, yet condemn me to linger on so long, frozen and forgotten? What use could they have for an old done man like me?" Aemon's fingers trembled, twigs sheathed in spotted skin. "I remember, Sam. I still remember."

and this:

Aemon's wits were wandering more and more since they arrived at Braavos. Some days he did not seem to know where he was. Some days he would lose his way when sayiing something and begin to ramble on about his father or his brother. He is one hundred and two, Sam reminded himself, but he had been just as old at Castle Black and his wits had never wandered there.

My guess is that the Wall somehow preserved his wits and memory, because it knew that they would be needed someday. That's why he believes he should never have left.

[Jon Targaryen]

Aemon must have been very close to Egg. As his mind leaves him, he talks to him more and more.

Perhaps Aemon dreamed of the time Egg and Dunk visited him and Aemon gave Egg a horse.

Aemon does remember about the prince that was promised. He dreams of the birth of Dany's dragons.

Sam still has that broken horn which is probably the real Horn of Winter.

[Barba]

". . . For me, these past years, only one question has remained. Why would the gods take my eyes and my strength, yet condemn me to linger on so long, frozen and forgotten? What use could they have for an old done man like me?"

I have my own teory about this. Aemon said to Jon in AGOT

Maester Aemon sighed. “Have you heard nothing I’ve told you, Jon? Do you think you are the first?†He shook his ancient head, a gesture weary beyond words. “Three times the gods saw fit to test my vows. Once when I was a boy, once in the fullness of my manhood, and once when I had grown old. By then my strength was fled, my eyes grown dim, yet that last choice was as cruel as the first. My ravens would bring the news from the south, words darker than their wings, the ruin of my House, the death of my kin, disgrace and desolation. What could I have done, old, blind, frail? I was helpless as a suckling babe, yet still it grieved me to sit forgotten as they cut down my brother’s poor grandson, and his son, and even the little children . . . â€

It seems to me like gods wanted to reward him for staying loyal to his vows, and right before he died they told him that Targaryens shall prevail, and that they have Dragons.

[Jon Targaryen]

I have my own teory about this. Aemon said to Jon in AGOT

It seems to me like gods wanted to reward him for staying loyal to his vows, and right before he died they told him that Targaryens shall prevail, and that they have Dragons.

I think his use was to counsel Dany when she made her way to the Wall to fight the battle for the dawn. But Melisandre and her false ptwp foiled that use.

[Lupigis]

A dark chapter in more than one way, but with glimmers of hope too. I love the picture we get of Aemon with his history, his dreams of dragons and his fear of dying.

IMO one shouldn't make to much out of Aemons comment about how cold preserves. After all, it could just mean that he has realised that his quiet life at the wall is what had allowed him to live to his already advanced age in the first place, and that any extended journey south would have killed him.

Boarders have complained that Sam's encounter with Arya is cheesy, but I liked it. It would have been another thing if she had revealed herself to him or if he had realised who she was, but as it is it works well.

This chapter also reveals a major flaw in Jon's plan for the entire journey. He could easily have ordered the captain of the ship that brought Sam and the others to Braavos to stay there until Sam and the others had boarded their ship to Oldtown. That would have been a cheap insurance. A reminder that Jon is still rather inexperienced as a commander.

[Jon Targaryen]

Samwell 4

We see the trader that told Dany of Robert’s death once again.

Aemon the Dragonknight died young.

Aemon talks about the prince that was promised and mentions salt and smoke and a bleeding star. This settles the old debate on the old boards for me. AAR and tptwp are the same thing.

Sam still keeps the broken horn. It is the Horn of Winter, imo.

It seems having “dragon blood†is necessary for AAR/ptwp. I’m not sure if that means Targaryen or just Valyrian.

Lightbringer must have heat.

It seems Rhae and Daella had children.

It seems this Septon Barth had something to say about the prophecy. Interesting that a septon would have something to say about it.

This is probably my favorite chapter only because of the information we get on the ptwp.

[Reposado]

Boarders have complained that Sam's encounter with Arya is cheesy, but I liked it. It would have been another thing if she had revealed herself to him or if he had realised who she was, but as it is it works well.

i agree, i think it unlikely that arya wouldn't investigate members of the night's watch in the city

[Jaehaerys]

It seems this Septon Barth had something to say about the prophecy. Interesting that a septon would have something to say about it.

And likely it is what caused Baelor the Blessed to later ban his works.

[A wilding]

So in this chapter we finally learn who the main villain of the series is. A lot is still obscure, but the evidence of his villainy is undisputable. Melisandre may have gone so far as to burn trees and people, but only a totally irredeemable person would dream of going so far, in a world without the printing press, as burning BOOKS.

Discovering Baelor the Blessed is the central villain does make a fair number of things clear. Obviously it was he, in his youth, who was responsible for the extinction of the dragons. Locking up his sisters in the Maidenvault was an attempt to make House Targaryen extinct also, and so prevent the PwwP from ever being born (in the light of this we should perhaps re-evaluate Aegon the Unworthy - his behaviour was obviously a heroic attempt to spread the Targaryen genes as widely as possible to ensure BtB could never wipe them out). BtB's treatment of the Faith, pretending over the top belief, getting idiots made High Septon, etc, was an attempt to discredit and weaken the Faith, and thus prevent them carrying out some predestined role in the War For The Dawn. I am not sure where his habit of dosing himself with snake poison fits in though.

Apparently Viserys II finally realised exactly what BtB was and decided to kill him. But in some manner as yet unclear BtB escaped death (or perhaps resurrected himself) and still threatens Westeros and the world, with his plans now nearing fruition. I am wavering between two theories here:

- Varys is BtB. We have long guessed that Varys is a Targaryen, and it would certainly explain why he knows the Red Keep better than anyone else.

- BtB joined the Faceless Men, learned all their skills, and left them. He is now Roose Bolton. If this is true, Arya will have a key role. She will learn of BtB during her FM training and we at some stage remember that she saw Roose burning a book and so will realise that he is really BtB, unable to abandon his abominable habit despite all the skills he has learnt.

[sh_wulff]

but only a totally irredeemable person would dream of going so far, in a world without the printing press, as burning BOOKS.....

blah blah blah...

Apparently Viserys II finally realised exactly what BtB was and decided to kill him. But in some manner as yet unclear BtB escaped death (or perhaps resurrected himself) and still threatens Westeros and the world, with his plans now nearing fruition. I am wavering between two theories here:

brilliant thinking there

[Happy Ent]

Excellent. Baelor the Blessed is the Great Other.

[Mauvka]

I'm pretty sure that the man Sam found to tell Aemon about dragons is not the same one who met with Dany in Quarth. Don't feel like scrounging for the real names, but I have been keeping a list of characters, and the Captain from AFFC was a new name.

[Jon Targaryen]

I'm pretty sure that the man Sam found to tell Aemon about dragons is not the same one who met with Dany in Quarth. Don't feel like scrounging for the real names, but I have been keeping a list of characters, and the Captain from AFFC was a new name.

No, the guy Sam met wa a totally new person but the captain of the ship is the same as the person Dany met, Quhuru Mo.

[A wilding]

Thanks for the kind words.