Alayne's Shadow. Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'm sorry, but I don't get this logic at all. Rape is an act of violence which has the capacity to completely destroy a human being psychologically and emotionally, among other things. Did torturing and emasculating Reek make him a darker and more foreboding character? Did it make him more cunning? I'm going to say no.Agreed. Rape as a plot-device? That's just offensive. Sansa might be a fictional character, but her book!counterpart seems to be learning quite a bit without the need of a brutal violence in a sexual, physical and psychological level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanacetum Vulgare Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I wouldn't be ok with Sophie doing a nude scene. It just seems like a scummy idea. Amen, Varys. Amen. Regardless of the okay-ness of Sophie Turner's nudity on GoT, like several others on this forum I will not be watching the show this week until I know a Sansa-rape scene is NOT in. If it is, I'm not watching. I skipped Jeyne's "bedding" in the book, and I will skip that garbage on the show. I really wish someone capable of influencing production on GoT would get it through their heads that rape is NOT sexy. With a 'pretty please' and 'thank you' from all of Craster's "wives" last season. No. Just no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklover Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'm sorry, but I don't get this logic at all. Rape is an act of violence which has the capacity to completely destroy a human being psychologically and emotionally, among other things. Did torturing and emasculating Reek make him a darker and more foreboding character? Did it make him more cunning? I'm going to say no. the whole reek storyline is very sad. if sansa is raped i doubt she will become a more darker character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklover Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Amen, Varys. Amen. Regardless of the okay-ness of Sophie Turner's nudity on GoT, like several others on this forum I will not be watching the show this week until I know a Sansa-rape scene is NOT in. If it is, I'm not watching. I skipped Jeyne's "bedding" in the book, and I will skip that garbage on the show. I really wish someone capable of influencing production on GoT would get it through their heads that rape is NOT sexy. With a 'pretty please' and 'thank you' from all of Craster's "wives" last season. No. Just no. yeah rape is not sexy. I won't be watching it if it's rape. I am getting really sick of shows/books that have rape in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosehustle1 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I really don't get how anyone thought this was a good idea. If she gets raped then it shows that the creators never really intended for Sansa to have any agency in this plot and this whole thing was another way of her being used to bolster male character's plot lines. If she gets raped and it cuts to Theon's reactions, this will be bad because although he is a victim too, it is Sansa being raped. If anything her reactions should be shown. It makes me think of the women at Crasters that were being raped in the background as if they were window dressing. Their faces were barely visible but you could clearly make out the rapists. Also if she is raped and the next episode she's not shown deeply affected then it will be like the writers are trivializing what she just endured. If this 'deepens' her anger and revenge then the next potential problem is that they are trivializing the traumas that she endured before even coming back to Winterfell. They could have shown her angry and vengeful because of seeing her dad killed, nearly being sexually assaulted in the past, being beaten at court,being married into an enemies house, knowing her siblings are murdered or missing, knowing her home has been taken over by turncloaks, and that she is now framed for the king's death. She already had a ton of baggage to set her off. Why was a rape necessary? Also to all those saying this won't be rape because she knows a bedding is required: This is legalized rape. She becomes Ramsay's property when he marries her and thus he has the 'right' to do with her whatever he wants. This is accepted in Westeros but that doesn't change the fact that it's a rape for the clear fact that she is dehumanized and has no power in the act. She may accept that she has to have sex with him because he demands it but that doesn't change the name of what this situation really is: rape. I am also sure that by going on how rough he is with Myranda, that he will be sexually violent with Sansa and she will be in pain during the act. Gods! Why did they do this! I think seeing her be a bastard in the Vale would have been interesting and would have allowed Sophie to really show her range. They could have added a subplot with some action if the Vale needed it. I just think they sped up her arc so much last season and it seemed like they were giving her agency and then BAM! they pushed the cynical sexist story arc button and Sansa was pimped out to Ramsay Bolton. Wasted opportunities abound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklover Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 a waste of a good character :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosehustle1 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I just think if Jeyne was never included officially in the show then why keep any aspect of that storyline? They make up subplots all the time why couldn't they have come up with something else as a way for Theon to escape Winterfell and be redeemed? For writers, they can be very unimaginative and predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklover Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I hope that here is more to this storyline then her replaceing jayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'm re watching "Blackwater"....Her playing Joffrey like a fool, Cersei's advice to her and what would happen if a city falls, her talk with Shae, her talk with the Hound about killers... Her character is prepared for her wedding night, she knows it won't be peaches and cream for a noblewoman like her.... she was warned by Cersei, almost got raped in KL, has suffered physical abuse from Joffrey, almost went through it willingly with Tyrion and stated to Littlefinger she knows she will be a married woman when she comes back... She'll go with it willingly so it won't be rape. Sophie might show a bit of skin but I don't think it will be full on nudity, Iwan might give some more shots from behind. Just a couple of well placed shots and it will still be HBO "friendly". The backlash last season will remind them to be a bit more cautious, specially if it involves a beloved leading lady who used to be a child star and to some people she's still a Stark child. What I'm really wondering is if she will meet Stannis this season.... ever since season 2 it's been speculated she will eventually meet him and how their encounter would be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosehustle1 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 This whole arc sends a very bad message. It's like 'this is what happens when a woman tries to be a player.' It's very cynical and sexist, but I know Dumb and Dumber probably thought this was an empowering storyline. I knew shit would go off the rails last summer when I heard they had no female writers or female directors at all for season 5. It is important for there to be diversity in the production and writing room because different perspectives yield different possibilities. Also they need someone to challenge them on some of their ideas. I think having some female influence especially in a show that has problems writing fleshed out women characters should have been a priority of at least HBO, considering the backlash from the Cersei and Jaime altar scene last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklover Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Last year they kept saying that Cersei wasn't raped. they need some rape education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanacetum Vulgare Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Her character is prepared for her wedding night, she knows it won't be peaches and cream for a noblewoman like her.... she was warned by Cersei, almost got raped in KL, has suffered physical abuse from Joffrey, almost went through it willingly with Tyrion and stated to Littlefinger she knows she will be a married woman when she comes back... She'll go with it willingly so it won't be rape. Also to all those saying this won't be rape because she knows a bedding is required: This is legalized rape. She becomes Ramsay's property when he marries her and thus he has the 'right' to do with her whatever he wants. This is accepted in Westeros but that doesn't change the fact that it's a rape for the clear fact that she is dehumanized and has no power in the act. She may accept that she has to have sex with him because he demands it but that doesn't change the name of what this situation really is: rape. This. ^ So many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosehustle1 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Sansa knowing what is expected of her and the reality of the situation are two different things. She may think she is going into the bedding knowing how it will happen but then get a rude awakening the minute Ramsay pushes her down and hurts her. Again it's legalized rape for the mere fact that the woman isn't even asked for consent because she's considered property. Now of course, most normal beddings probably are not level 10 traumatizing because the man is probably not a sadistic nut that will brutalize his new wife. But in the case of Ramsay I'm sure he will be brutal, Sansa will plead for him to stop, and he won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCasualObserver Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I really don't get how anyone thought this was a good idea. If she gets raped then it shows that the creators never really intended for Sansa to have any agency in this plot and this whole thing was another way of her being used to bolster male character's plot lines. If she gets raped and it cuts to Theon's reactions, this will be bad because although he is a victim too, it is Sansa being raped. If anything her reactions should be shown. It makes me think of the women at Crasters that were being raped in the background as if they were window dressing. Their faces were barely visible but you could clearly make out the rapists. Also if she is raped and the next episode she's not shown deeply affected then it will be like the writers are trivializing what she just endured. If this 'deepens' her anger and revenge then the next potential problem is that they are trivializing the traumas that she endured before even coming back to Winterfell. They could have shown her angry and vengeful because of seeing her dad killed, nearly being sexually assaulted in the past, being beaten at court,being married into an enemies house, knowing her siblings are murdered or missing, knowing her home has been taken over by turncloaks, and that she is now framed for the king's death. She already had a ton of baggage to set her off. Why was a rape necessary? Also to all those saying this won't be rape because she knows a bedding is required: This is legalized rape. She becomes Ramsay's property when he marries her and thus he has the 'right' to do with her whatever he wants. This is accepted in Westeros but that doesn't change the fact that it's a rape for the clear fact that she is dehumanized and has no power in the act. She may accept that she has to have sex with him because he demands it but that doesn't change the name of what this situation really is: rape. I am also sure that by going on how rough he is with Myranda, that he will be sexually violent with Sansa and she will be in pain during the act. Gods! Why did they do this! I think seeing her be a bastard in the Vale would have been interesting and would have allowed Sophie to really show her range. They could have added a subplot with some action if the Vale needed it. I just think they sped up her arc so much last season and it seemed like they were giving her agency and then BAM! they pushed the cynical sexist story arc button and Sansa was pimped out to Ramsay Bolton. Wasted opportunities abound. Well argued. In the case of a rape, D and D will have some "splainin to do". I always hated the Jeyne Poole storyline from ADWD - D and D have gone on record saying they love it. If this were an original series they could argue that Sansa needed this for her character development, but if her book counterpart didn't why does she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayarts Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Last year they kept saying that Cersei wasn't raped. they need some rape education. I agree with you guys on everything about Sansa's character and her plotline. However.... I totally NEVER saw Cersei as being raped by Jamie in this scene - and let me tell you, when my boyfriend started watching GoT, I couldn't handle the series in the beginning because of the Dany-Drogo-scenes - I stopped watching for a whole year! I am totally sensitive to rape-scenes because of some touchy experiences myself (and I say this only so you know how much such matters effect me), but never ever, until I read it here in the forums, I thought that Cersei was being raped. Her saying no was (for me) more like "No, Jamie, it isn't appropriate, we shouldn't" but that she still gave in into lust (and it fits her character, because, really - Cersei is a bitch in every sense of the word) But yeah... if Sansa is getting raped (and bedding wedding night whatever counts as such), it totally destroys one of the last powerful female storylines. Like really - do they have to unvirgin every single female character in the series? (and don't give me Arya, she doesn't play a "woman's" role in the series/books, although there are even some sh..heads out there who wish for Arya to be raped, too...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCasualObserver Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I agree with you guys on everything about Sansa's character and her plotline. However.... I totally NEVER saw Cersei as being raped by Jamie in this scene - and let me tell you, when my boyfriend started watching GoT, I couldn't handle the series in the beginning because of the Dany-Drogo-scenes - I stopped watching for a whole year! I am totally sensitive to rape-scenes because of some touchy experiences myself (and I say this only so you know how much such matters effect me), but never ever, until I read it here in the forums, I thought that Cersei was being raped. Her saying no was (for me) more like "No, Jamie, it isn't appropriate, we shouldn't" but that she still gave in into lust (and it fits her character, because, really - Cersei is a bitch in every sense of the word) But yeah... if Sansa is getting raped (and bedding wedding night whatever counts as such), it totally destroys one of the last powerful female storylines. Like really - do they have to unvirgin every single female character in the series? (and don't give me Arya, she doesn't play a "woman's" role in the series/books, although there are even some sh..heads out there who wish for Arya to be raped, too...) That Cersei scene was a BIG mistake in my opinion. And as unpleasant as those first scenes with Dany and Drogo are, you can make the argument that they bring three important elements into Dany's otherwise sheltered life which are critical for her character going forwards. 1.Separating her from her abusive brother so she can grow as a character. 2.Teaching her to use her femininity and wiles to get what she wants (in this case, more respect from Drogo which develops into a loving marriage) 3.Serves as an informative experience about not having agency over her own body which is the start of her hatred of slavery. Three important character elements. Of course, in the books Drogo is gentle and in the show he is rough, but that's just GOT pushing tthings to the max for shock. So what would Sansa getting raped achieved? 1. Harden Sansa into a political player who hates the Bolton's thanks to this sexual trauma. You may notice, the abuses inflicted on Sansa in the previous 5 seasons have already done this and she already has plenty of reasons to want the Bolton's dead. So I'm forced to assume that this is happening for shock value again. And I'm not ok with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainTheo Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Like really - do they have to unvirgin every single female character in the series? Indeed. I've said that more than once about every male character in the series, but it's equally valid for female characters. In either case, I cannot understand the showriters' insistence on doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldHandTheGood Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 snip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalle Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 She wont be nude, she wont be raped, she wont have sex, she wont be experience anything more horrifying than she already been through. She will wtach some nasty things go down but that nothing she hasnt seen already, i mean her dads head on a spike, her dad getting executed, Joffrey shooting crossbow Arrows at a prostitue, flaying men. Yes it will be horryfing but nothing she havent experinced Before really. You worry to much.And stop treating Sansa as if she exist in the real World its a tv series , shes and actor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryen loyalist Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Maybe when Ramsay is about to rape her, horn blows because an army is approaching (Stannis). A man can hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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