Will Olenna go to war?

[Good Guy Garlan]

I hope this all roll out as you're saying. It would be a nice outcome to have a Queen of Thorns ruling KL and counseling Tommen. But IDK, I fear more shit is coming.

I like this idea, basically Olenna replacing Mace in the Small Council somehow. Hell, I could even see her coming up with the Hand chair just to annoy Cersei :p

And the Olenna-Kevan interactions could be good.

[Ser Wun Wun]

I definitely think Olenna will have a hand in Cersei getting arrested in the show. Set her up the way she set up Marg, that would be a great moment.

The idea that she could take a role on the council is a good one too, I wish she had done that in the books as well.

[yanmaodao]

Regent until king comes of age and can excercise power in his own right. This is where show messed up the idea that show tommen is old enough to bang margaery but can make decisions is just stupid.

I like the portrayal of Tommen as Tytos 2.0. It reinforces the major themes of the show, which to most show watchers has always been more about politics and the pitfalls of ruling than the fantastical elements. There's such a thing as too nice to rule, and showing us via Tommen is much better than if a guy like Varys simply throwing platitudes at us insisting that this is the case in episode 1 was the only demonstration of it. On the YT comments on some recent Tommen scenes, you have people pining for Joffrey, which is no mean feat.

It's a bit different from Ned, who may have been nice but also strong enough to rule. And that was a long time ago. As for Robb... as a political lesson it's a bit contrived. I feel like greater missteps from other characters haven't been punished half so severely. "Care too much about the honor of a girl who was kind to you, and a once-in-a-century atrocity, meticulously organized behind the scenes, will befall you" always felt like a Space Whale Aesop. Don't get me wrong, I love the RW from a narrative perspective, but from a didactic one, I don't think it works half as well as the proponents of this line of thinking think it does.

Tommen's been my second brightest spot of the season after the Wall.

[Yela]

My question is. Shouldn't Margaery be the one assuming the role as Hand of the King instead of Cersei? Isn't she the Queen while Cersei's just Queen Mother now? Also, why isn't Marg active in the small council like Cersei was back when she was Queen Regent(even When Tywin already made Tyrion Hand)? Is Marg just lazy or what? Was Cersei just squeezing herself all along while the small council is having their meeting or is the Queen required to sit with them?

[jarl the climber]

My question is. Shouldn't Margaery be the one assuming the role as Hand of the King instead of Cersei? Isn't she the Queen while Cersei's just Queen Mother now? Also, why isn't Marg active in the small council like Cersei was back when she was Queen Regent(even When Tywin already made Tyrion Hand)? Is Marg just lazy or what? Was Cersei just squeezing herself all along while the small council is having their meeting or is the Queen required to sit with them?

For that matter why isn't Tommen attending the meetings? Who rules Casterly Rock at this point? I think having Cersei as the Regnet until Tommen turned 16 or something like that would have made more sense. I'd think that part of Cerseis power derives from her ruling the West just like Tywins power really came from but its not even clear that she even has that.

[Antler's Fury]

My question is. Shouldn't Margaery be the one assuming the role as Hand of the King instead of Cersei? Isn't she the Queen while Cersei's just Queen Mother now? Also, why isn't Marg active in the small council like Cersei was back when she was Queen Regent(even When Tywin already made Tyrion Hand)? Is Marg just lazy or what? Was Cersei just squeezing herself all along while the small council is having their meeting or is the Queen required to sit with them?

Cersei was,and still is, Regent, and therefore is entitled to a spot on the council. Marg is not Regent, Hand, Master of anything, or a minister without portfolio, and therefore has no justification for sitting on the council. Notice that even Cersei did not sit the council in Season 1.

As far as Olenna is concerned, I found her disappointingly passive in her interactions with Cersei. She threatens to pull the plug on the alliance, but when Cersei calls her bluff, she backs down. She doesn't have to break off the alliance completely, but could easily cut grain shipments to the capital in half without causing a war. When Cersei says that she's "just" a Queen Mother who has no control over the Faith Militant, I am shocked that Olenna did not immediately say "You armed them!"

[Yela]

Cersei was,and still is, Regent, and therefore is entitled to a spot on the council. Marg is not Regent, Hand, Master of anything, or a minister without portfolio, and therefore has no justification for sitting on the council. Notice that even Cersei did not sit the council in Season 1.

As far as Olenna is concerned, I found her disappointingly passive in her interactions with Cersei. She threatens to pull the plug on the alliance, but when Cersei calls her bluff, she backs down. She doesn't have to break off the alliance completely, but could easily cut grain shipments to the capital in half without causing a war. When Cersei says that she's "just" a Queen Mother who has no control over the Faith Militant, I am shocked that Olenna did not immediately say "You armed them!"

Why isn't Marg Queen Regent? How does someone become Queen "Regent" and gets to have a spot on the council? That's real question btw. I thought Cersei's position and power is "waning more and more each day"? but it kinda seems like she still has more power than Margery then.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I'm confused. Cersei said she was the queen mother, right? To Olenna? I do remember Kevan said as much to her.

But according to Wikipedia, a queen mother is the mother of a reigning king. So it means Tommen is already reigning in his own right, doesn't it? And that makes Margaery the queen consort, and Cersei would be pretty much powerless, so she wouldn't have been able to do half the shit she's done this season.

[Antler's Fury]

Why isn't Marg Queen Regent? How does someone become Queen "Regent" and gets to have a spot on the council?

The Regent subs for the King until he comes of age,and is chosen by the council. That is why Robert told Ned to show his will to the council, so that they could confirm Ned as Regent in accordance with Robert's will. Cersei was presumably selected by the council and retains their confidence. In order for Marg to be appointed in her place, she would have to convince the council members to back her instead of Cersei, something that Pycelle and Qyburn would never do.

That's real question btw. I thought Cersei's position and power is "waning more and more each day"?

It's not. Cersei's power actually peaked once Tywin died because she was both Regent and head of House Lannister given that Jaime was a KG and Tyrion was convicted of regicide. Once Tommen comes of age, then he would theoretically have the power to fire his Regent, Hand and any other council members as he saw fit, but even then it's important to remember that the Red Keep is still garrisoned by Lannister soldiers sworn to the Lady of Casterly Rock and the King in equal measure...

For that matter why isn't Tommen attending the meetings? Who rules Casterly Rock at this point? I think having Cersei as the Regnet until Tommen turned 16 or something like that would have made more sense. I'd think that part of Cerseis power derives from her ruling the West just like Tywins power really came from but its not even clear that she even has that.

Tommen ought to be attending the council meetings to learn to rule before he comes of age, but is not, probably because he is not interested in ruling. Cersei is formally Lady of CR but has someone running the place on the ground in her absence, probably Kevan or some other minor Lannister.

[Antler's Fury]

Why isn't Marg Queen Regent? How does someone become Queen "Regent" and gets to have a spot on the council?

The Regent subs for the King until he comes of age,and is chosen by the council. That is why Robert told Ned to show his will to the council, so that they could confirm Ned as Regent in accordance with Robert's will. Cersei was presumably selected by the council and retains their confidence. In order for Marg to be appointed in her place, she would have to convince the council members to back her instead of him, something that Pycelle and Qyburn would never do.

That's real question btw. I thought Cersei's position and power is "waning more and more each day"?

It's not. Cersei's power actually peaked once Tywin died because she was both Regent and head of House Lannister given that Jaime was a KG and Tyrion was convicted of regicide. Once Tommen comes of age, then he would theoretically have the power to fire his Regent, Hand and any other council members as he saw fit, but even then it's important to remember that the Red Keep is still garrisoned by Lannister soldiers sworn to the Lady of Casterly Rock and the King in equal measure...

For that matter why isn't Tommen attending the meetings? Who rules Casterly Rock at this point? I think having Cersei as the Regnet until Tommen turned 16 or something like that would have made more sense. I'd think that part of Cerseis power derives from her ruling the West just like Tywins power really came from but its not even clear that she even has that.

Tommen ought to be attending the council meetings to learn to rule before he comes of age, but is not, probably because he is not interested in ruling. Cersei is formally Lady of CR but has someone running the place on the ground in her absence, probably Kevan or some other minor Lannister.

EDIT: sorry accidental double post

[Antler's Fury]

I'm confused. Cersei said she was the queen mother, right? To Olenna? I do remember Kevan said as much to her.

But according to Wikipedia, a queen mother is the mother of a reigning king. So it means Tommen is already reigning in his own right, doesn't it? And that makes Margaery the queen consort, and Cersei would be pretty much powerless, so she wouldn't have been able to do half the shit she's done this season.

Tommen reigned as King since the day he was crowned. He just hasn't started ruling yet, and still requires a Regent, namely Cersei, who acts in his name.

[robasp2]

House Tyrell is a joke. I dont think they even have good soldiers in the show, just large number of gardeners who hold swords to scare enemies. :)

Mace has no balls and Oleena is gonner soon.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Tommen reigned as King since the day he was crowned. He just hasn't started ruling yet, and still requires a Regent, namely Cersei, who acts in his name.

Again, I'm going by Wikipedia (so not the best source, admittedly), but it seems to be no distinction between reigning and ruling. Basically, what I'm getting at is that Cersei shouldn't have been addressed as queen mother because as I understand it, a queen is referred as queen mother once the king is reigning/ruling in his own right.

So Cersei is really the queen regent, not the queen mother.

[Yela]

Tommen reigned as King since the day he was crowned. He just hasn't started ruling yet, and still requires a Regent, namely Cersei, who acts in his name.

How powerful is the "regent" really? Cause if she is legit a regent because other people of authority put her there and isn't just 'assuming' the role or pretending she is. How could Kevan Lannister just dump her demands like that? Isn't she basically the King until Tommen comes of age? Meaning she gets to order who she wants. Why doesn't Kevan "recognize her authority over him"? Knowing Cersei, she could've cut his head right then and there, right? But she backed off as if Kevan was right?

[clawson24]

How powerful is the "regent" really? Cause if she is legit a regent because other people of authority put her there and isn't just 'assuming' the role or pretending she is. How could Kevan Lannister just dump her demands like that? Isn't she basically the King until Tommen comes of age? Meaning she gets to order who she wants. Why doesn't Kevan "recognize her authority over him"? Knowing Cersei, she could've cut his head right then and there, right? But she backed off as if Kevan was right?

I don't think she was in any position to threaten Kevan, and they both knew it. She would have serious problems with a large number of Lannister bannerman if she killed Tywin's capable, well-respected brother shortly after Tywin himself has died. It would weaken the Lannisters substantially.

[mirthula]

I hope Olenna is there to have one last chat with Cersei, telling her few truths such as

- She is not her father and she never was, is and will be

- She is not looked down upon because she is a woman, it is because she is stupid

- Her father was not only the most intelligent man in westeros but also an ignorant fool for dooming house lannister to idiots like jamie and cersei

- the only person who deserved to inherit casterly rock was tyrion

- oh yeah everyone knows about you and jamie we just put up with it for our own advantage but trust me we will have him removed when the time comes just like we dealt with that bastard joffrey

now get ready for your walk

[mirthula]

I don't think she was in any position to threaten Kevan, and they both knew it. She would have serious problems with a large number of Lannister bannerman if she killed Tywin's capable, well-respected brother shortly after Tywin himself has died. It would weaken the Lannisters substantially.

power is a curious thing power resides where men believes it resides, cersei is believing she has this power unfortunately for her no one else believes it about her.

[mirthula]

Tommen reigned as King since the day he was crowned. He just hasn't started ruling yet, and still requires a Regent, namely Cersei, who acts in his name.

I think the show is making a point to make all of cersei kids look like hopeless cases, product of incest, bad upbringing has ruined them

- joffrey is a psycopath is dead

- tommen has no personality, rickon younger than him would have more conviction. tommen basically a fool and no guts and no brains

- myrcella shown as a lollys type character is even more deluded than season 1 sansa

[Lord Varys]

Cersei isn't Tommen's regent in the show. She is just there, plotting, and there is no explanation giving as to why she is 'sort of in charge'. None at all.

The Tyrells also obviously lack both the power, will, and capability to war against the Lannisters/the Faith. Else Olenna would have come with an army to KL, not just in a litter.

[Chilli]

I think it was too early for an army. When Olenna came, she didn't know it was so serious. She thought she could convince Cersei to release Loras. But now with the trial it's different.