Hardhome Vs Blackwater

[Freebird6699]

My favorite episode so far in this series has been the Blackwater. Because of the mix of tension, scared women in the tower and battles I have told everyone it was the best hour of TV ever. Now we have Hardhome. It was better. But the budget is bigger now, the writers should be more seasoned. It should be better. And last year they adapted the last 2 episodes for the big screen and I am hoping this year it will be 3 and I will get to see this on the big screen :fencing: :drool:

[Guess who's back]

I actually prefer Battle of Castle Black.

[sj4iy]

What I loved the most about this episode is that it shifts the importance on the Wall storyline (finally). With the threat full and center, people are finally getting just how insignificant the political machinations of KL are in comparison.

Even the books haven't managed to do that yet.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I watched Hardhome for the 5th time last night and Blackwater just now.

Before I watched them both I would have said Blackwater is the superior episode, but now I think I like Hardhome more.

Was Blackwater great because we focused on one location? Of course. However, it's much harder to globe trot from story to story and nail almost every scene. Plus, Hardhome just came out of nowhere, and once the fight started the terror and awe just got bigger and bigger and bigger. As a book reader I felt like an unsullied for the first time in years. Blackwater helped the popularity of the show grow immensely, so it will always be one of the most important episodes of the series, but IMO Hardhome was better.

[roxWolfox]

When I first heard that Neil Marshall was directing Blackwater, I was excited. One of my favourite directors! Then I watched and realised that he couldn't make me care about the Lannisters or the Baratheons. I still wanted to see all of them dead (except Shireen). Then he directed Watchers on the Wall, and I was finally invested in the outcome. I chewed my fingernails when Tormund and Alliser went toe to toe, as I somehow became a momentary fan of Alliser due to his speech before the battle broke out. There were so many emotional highs and lows in that episode. Much like the Brienne and Hound battle; two people I had no real interest in in the books (but who won me over in the show) trying to kill one another. I had to look away more than once and I had tears in my eyes once the fight was over.

Hardhome, on the other hand, was chaos pure and simple. Terror, confusion, facing and fighting against an implacable foe against all odds. Out and out horrifying for 15 minutes or so, then suddenly the calm at the end when the NK/Other raised his arms. I was speechless.

Hardhome underlined what is wrong with Westerosi Great House politics, King's Landing machinations, and Essos meanderings. None of what the participants in the game of thrones do or say matters once the WW and their popsicle army find a way to pass the Wall. I'm finally excited at the possibilities. The Night's Watch is toast.

[Tolsimir]

As a battle? Hardhome is better. I don't like those ridiculous zombies, but it was still an incredibly intense fight. I was on the edge of my seat.

As an episode? Blackwater, hands down.

[Fearodh]

I prefer Blackwater, as I kinda felt more for Tyrion then. And the battle was really on the brink, unlike the massacre at Hardhome.

Hardhome was also great, especially as I had no clue what to expect and was pleasantly surprised to see Longclaw holding the blow.

On another topic: I tried to open a new topic in this forum, but since two days it is not coming. Can somebody tell me why?

[lakin1013]

Hardhome. I do agree that Blackwater had a better show framework and it all fit together seamlessly. But I was not on the edge of my seat and I was not yelling "get the sword, get the sword" so I have to give it to Hardhome. And I also agree with other posters - Hardhome showed us the real peril for the world and it isn't rinky dink politics, it is life and death.

[lakin1013]

sorry, double post

[sj4iy]

I prefer Blackwater, as I kinda felt more for Tyrion then. And the battle was really on the brink, unlike the massacre at Hardhome.

Hardhome was also great, especially as I had no clue what to expect and was pleasantly surprised to see Longclaw holding the blow.

On another topic: I tried to open a new topic in this forum, but since two days it is not coming. Can somebody tell me why?

Not all topics are approved for posting...you'd have to ask a mod why it didn't get approved.

[aliasocfan]

I prefer Blackwater.

It had better build up and tension. It had some great character moments. I cared about people on both sides of the battle.

It, in general, just featured lots of characters I know and care about their fates.

[Gaz0680]

Both were fantastic episodes, but for very different reasons. Both had a different purpose and motivations behind them.

Blackwater was very much about the game of thrones and two sides battling for control. Survival of course also factored in to it because if they didn't survive, they wouldn't be able to win the game. It was a fairly even contest and if a couple of things had gone his way instead of the Lannisters', Stannis may have won.

Hardhome was purely about survival, not power or control. For the wildlings/Night's Watch at Hardhome it was either escape or die. They were fighting an enemy you can't negotiate with or manipulate to suit your own ends. The dead were coming for them and fleeing or dying was ultimately their only two options. Defeating the White Walkers and wights at Hardhome was not possible with the number of fighters and resources they had available.

Overall, I enjoyed the battle of Blackwater more as a whole episode, primarily because of the brilliant setup that was involved leading in to the battle. They did a fantastic job of portraying the anticipation invovled and the nervousness and fear of all the characters. So many strong scenes - Varys and Tyrion, Bronn and the Hound, Stannis and Davos, Cersei and Sansa - which set the mood for the battle ahead. The blackwater scene with the ships exploding was brilliant, but the other battle scenes were just good, not great.

Hardhome had far less build up, but the action was definitely more intense and the final scene was pretty much perfect and really emphasized how fucked they all are against the White Walkers/Others.

[Gustavo Fringed Sleeves]

Even the question is foolish: Blackwater >>>>>>>>>> Hardhome.

S02E09 was amazing from start to end. From the initial scenes of Stannis' fleet to the end credits with The National's rendition of The Rains of Castamere. S05E08 OTOH started with Dany-Tyrion pretentious, annoying dialogues.

I was already hooked to the show, but Blackwater, along with the final scene of S02 (the White Walkers marching to the Fist of the First Men), was what convinced me that i had to pick up the books soon. Hardhome battle was good, but all this reaction is a severe, yet classical case of overhype.

[sj4iy]

Even the question is foolish: Blackwater >>>>>>>>>> Hardhome.

Yes, very foolish, considering everyone in this thread has the same answer. Oh, wait...they don't.

S02E09 was amazing from start to end. From the initial scenes of Stannis' fleet to the end credits with The National's rendition of The Rains of Castamere. S05E08 OTOH started with Dany-Tyrion pretentious, annoying dialogues.

I thought Blackwater was good in the beginning, better in the middle and then disappointing in the end. The battle did not match up to the build-up over the entire episode.

Everything in Hardhome was really good in the first 40 minutes...then absolutely amazing in the last 20. You always want to finish stronger than you started, and Hardhome did that better than Blackwater imo.

I was already hooked to the show, but Blackwater, along with the final scene of S02 (the White Walkers marching to the Fist of the First Men), was what convinced me that i had to pick up the books soon. Hardhome battle was good, but all this reaction is a severe, yet classical case of overhype.

...or maybe people just have a different opinion than you about it. Has nothing to do with 'hype', since Hardhome was definitely NOT pegged as a 'big battle episode!' beforehand like Blackwater was. It was just amazing television.

[CyanidePie]

The actual battling in the Blackwater episode does not hold up on a rewatch for me. The wildfire explosion is fantastic, and one of the coolest effects shots in movies or TV, but when people are actually fighting it feels like a back alley brawl between the Jets and Sharks.

There's no scope to the battle at all, and it plays out basically in what feels like a small sound stage.

Watchers on the Wall was much better action and scope wise, but the stakes were so much smaller that it almost felt pointless to spend an entire episode up there. Plus, I still maintain that not including Stannis' charge was a huge lapse in judgement, as was just ending the battle with Ygritte in Jon's arms. How is this moment allowed to happen without some wildling just running in and slicing Jon's head off? Whatever though, chalk it up to Hollywood.

This set piece in Hardhome was just on a different level entirely. It hit all the notes perfectly for me. The action was great, the stakes were the highest they've ever been, and there was such a palpable sense of horror that has not been captured since the very opening scene of the series. I have watched the last 20 minutes of the episode every single day this week, and will do so again tomorrow night leading up to the new episode.

[Gustavo Fringed Sleeves]

Yes, very foolish, considering everyone in this thread has the same answer. Oh, wait...they don't.

Whatever.

I thought Blackwater was good in the beginning, better in the middle and then disappointing in the end. The battle did not match up to the build-up over the entire episode.

Whatever.

Everything in Hardhome was really good in the first 40 minutes...then absolutely amazing in the last 20. You always want to finish stronger than you started, and Hardhome did that better than Blackwater imo.

The whole Tyrion-Dany scene was an insult to the viewer's intelligence. "Break the wheel". Give me a break! Even the almost-brawl between Sandor and Bronn was better writing than this.

...or maybe people just have a different opinion than you about it. Has nothing to do with 'hype', since Hardhome was definitely NOT pegged as a 'big battle episode!' beforehand like Blackwater was. It was just amazing television.

The actual battling in the Blackwater episode does not hold up on a rewatch for me. The wildfire explosion is fantastic, and one of the coolest effects shots in movies or TV, but when people are actually fighting it feels like a back alley brawl between the Jets and Sharks.

There's no scope to the battle at all, and it plays out basically in what feels like a small sound stage.

Watchers on the Wall was much better action and scope wise, but the stakes were so much smaller that it almost felt pointless to spend an entire episode up there. Plus, I still maintain that not including Stannis' charge was a huge lapse in judgement, as was just ending the battle with Ygritte in Jon's arms. How is this moment allowed to happen without some wildling just running in and slicing Jon's head off? Whatever though, chalk it up to Hollywood.

This set piece in Hardhome was just on a different level entirely. It hit all the notes perfectly for me. The action was great, the stakes were the highest they've ever been, and there was such a palpable sense of horror that has not been captured since the very opening scene of the series. I have watched the last 20 minutes of the episode every single day this week, and will do so again tomorrow night leading up to the new episode.

LOL, this whole thing boils down to Hardhome having a bigger budget than Blackwater, something everyone knows to be the case. They did more with less back then. Remember: S02E09 was just as much hyped back then as S05E08 is being right now. The difference is that there was more merit to it for the former.

[FreeParking]

LOL, this whole thing boils down to Hardhome having a bigger budget than Blackwater, something everyone knows to be the case. They did more with less back then. Remember: S02E09 was just as much hyped back then as S05E08 is being right now. The difference is that there was more merit to it for the former.

Hardhome was most certainly NOT hyped as much as Blackwater. Plus Blackwater was the season's climax. It was what was being built up for most of the season. Hardhome was not.

[Gustavo Fringed Sleeves]

Hardhome was most certainly NOT hyped as much as Blackwater. Plus Blackwater was the season's climax. It was what was being built up for most of the season. Hardhome was not.

Maybe i'm using the wrong word or something (2nd language), but when i say "hype", i mean the overpraise after the episode, not prior. Sorry for the apparent confusion.

[ArabellaVidal]

Blackwater. Particularly because the tension within the Red Keep was built up brilliantly, plus the tension of sympathizing with both sides.Tyrion, Joffrey, Cersei, Sansa, Bronn, Hound, Varys, Davos, Stannis... just great acting.

I liked the new female character in Hardhome and the tension in the battle but then I kept being sidelined with thoughts like, "what happened to the people outside?" "Why have they forgotten about fire?" "Oh, she's obviously going to die because she promised her children she'd be right behind." "Why the hell is Jon even there?" etc. Also the build up of tension to the battle is vastly inferior to Blackwater and Battle of the Wall. There was way too much eye-rolling to hold the tension, "Why is he peeking through the chink, does he want to be stabbed?"

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

I thought Blackwater was good in the beginning, better in the middle and then disappointing in the end. The battle did not match up to the build-up over the entire episode.

Everything in Hardhome was really good in the first 40 minutes...then absolutely amazing in the last 20. You always want to finish stronger than you started, and Hardhome did that better than Blackwater imo.

:agree:

The actual "Battle" of the Blackwater was horribly underwhelming, Stannis acted like fucking Rambo (so OOC for both book and show) they were never able to give me the impression that more than a few dozen people were fighting at a time, the Lannister-Tyrell charge at the end was incredibly underwhelming, expecting a Pelennor Fields style charge would be too much, but the few shots we got were pathetic.

Blackwater was made what it is by the acting of Peter and Lena and the big explosion, Hardhome has acting and writing that I rank slightly lower, but the action is 50 times as good.