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Khaella

I read the most AMAZING theory! read it and have your mind blown!

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Finding a harp in the tombs proves nothing about Jon. 

 

I agree.  I don't get it.  I don't understand how Ned's taking possession of the harp and stashing it in Lyanna's tomb makes R+L=J more likely, or makes the notion that Jon is Ned's son resulting from a fling while out on the war trail less likely.  I don't even understand why or how, if someone found the harp in Lyanna's tomb, it would even occur to them that was somehow related to Jon's parentage much less amount to proof of R+L=J. 

 

That said, I agree the tombs generally and Lyanna's tomb specifically hold some important element of the answers to the big mysteries of the book, so I can't completely discount this theory, but there would have to be much more to it, much more corroborative, supporting, contextualizing evidence, for it to even mean what the theorist says it means, much less prove it.

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Seems the tombs, Bran/BR(green seeing witness) or HR (witness) are the only ways " the mystery" unravels. Since 2 ways are witness accounts seems like the physical spot may have an important relic and some direct message L&R had to their child. I can't see just the harp being there. Perhaps a cryptic vague inscription, tablet etc. along with the harp explaining or implying her true love, secret marriage and whom she left behind.....the "Mystery child" (insert r+l=J here if you wish) Otherwise seems strange, there is the other graveyard for non royal/non-ruling and female Starks, tomb is easier access and preservation.

More speculation, there is also a collapsed portion of the tombs that is mentioned, older, wonder if there is a purpose there too? ( Like the Song itself). The tombs holding the real weapon(s) against the others all along. Bran's ancestral visions by the tree perhaps lead them there. A tune enscribed on a tomb or valerian steel sword.

Seems obvious tombs play some part.

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A slight flaw in the theory 1. The Stark women has tombs but no Statue,2 Brandon Stark got a statue. 3. I'm pretty sure when Lyanna's bones was being placed in it's final resting place there was others present Howland Reed ,the Manderlys , old Nan , Benjen and maybe Robert Baratheon somebody would notice if things like a silver harp with the initials R.T .on it in her tomb .4 Mainly personal items of the departed is placed in the tombs .

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Maybe there is a letter in the tomb too, I mean people do write letters in this story, but never really important ones. This has always been one of my wishes about ASOIAF...that more hand written letters were around from the past. Diaries too. It would all be solved...a letter from mom, dad and a P.S. from uncle Ned about why it had to be a secret- somewhere in the crypts for Jon to find.

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Maybe there is a letter in the tomb too, I mean people do write letters in this story, but never really important ones. This has always been one of my wishes about ASOIAF...that more hand written letters were around from the past. Diaries too. It would all be solved...a letter from mom, dad and a P.S. from uncle Ned about why it had to be a secret- somewhere in the crypts for Jon to find.

 Oh, it will probably be solved but GRRM won't make that easy for his characters or his readers. Nor probably will he make it quite so clean and possibly disputable as a letter or a harp. To do otherwise would be bad storytelling imo. He has to keep us hooked so he can't give it away too fast.

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After all Jon has been through I think a bit of certainty would be good storytelling. His stories are great no matter what IMO of course, What an artist he is. I can't get the characters out of my head.

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Maybe there is a letter in the tomb too, I mean people do write letters in this story, but never really important ones. This has always been one of my wishes about ASOIAF...that more hand written letters were around from the past. Diaries too. It would all be solved...a letter from mom, dad and a P.S. from uncle Ned about why it had to be a secret- somewhere in the crypts for Jon to find.

 

A letter makes sense, but why hide it in a tomb? Point in fact, if Rhaegar was worried about making sure Jon was legitimized, why not write a letter instead of gambling it all on a harp? The theory feels too washy for me. 

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I am of the thinking that Jon will be drawn to the crypts by the death/coma too and that there will be an answer to his heritage there. But legitimacy? Nope. Just enough to teach him who mum and dad are for his absolution. He doesn't need to be king to fulfill his role as AA / TPTWP.

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While I think the Stark crypts will be somehow significant to Jon's story, I'm not convinced by this theory....

 

That said, the main point I want to bring up about this thread is that the title is horribly clickbait-y. Reminds me of a buzzfeed link, haha. (Not that it didn't work :P )

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my idea is this the harp is to convince jon and bran will probably send him a dream of their wedding or something idk. So now we have jon believing it. He stakes his claim gets howland to back him up and maybe the other north lords if no one else believe him because even if he's lying hes still a stark. also possibly bran could send a dream to other important lords idk but if howland says its true and he was there he will get some support. enough to take the north back then if jon decides it the rest of westeros but then he has to fight danny and aegon and a whole list of false kings. if he kills/proves aegon is a blackfire he has a better claim then danny. Also i think if bran is sending dreams danny will get one and maybe back jon who knows? 

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More likely what is drawing him to the crypts is what lies in the lower, forbidden, levels. All his life Jon has been told and often cruelly that he is not a Stark. This is all about overcoming the deeply instilled sense of rejection and facing up to being what Maester Aemon proclaimed him to be - a son of Winterfell.

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I don't think Jon will give a single shit about proving his heritage. If people do not believe him, then they can go bugger themselves. Jon is a sworn brother of the NW. He will live and die at his post.

 

Now, if people come to Jon to make him their king because of saving the world, then they should believe what Jon says.

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I'm not convinced with the theory, There are two main points against it, in my opinion:

  • If the promise that Eddard made to Lyanna had included making Jon aware of his lineage at some point, Ned wouldn't have allowed Jon to say the vows of the Night's Watch renouncing to any family or inheritance rights.
  • The appearance of Jon with Rhaegar's silver-stringed harp wouldn't convince anyone that he's Rhaegar's son. The Westerosi are aware that Rhaegar spent his last days in the Tower of Joy, and that Eddard went there to kill the last members of the KG and destroy the place where her sister had died. Therefore, the fact that the Starks owned Targareyen items would be easily explained as some looting of spoils of war.

 

In regards to the issue of the nights watch, I don't think Jon's taking the black would actually matter as from Ned's perspective, 1) The Targs are no longer ruling, and he did not care for them, so he has no interest in Jon reclaiming any Targ dynasty, 2) he probably did not envision any of what unfolds from the moment he goes to KL and is unaware of Daenarys intentions, and 3) I think the promise of letting him know is simply so he does not think his mother is some whore. 

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First, why does it always sound like a snake oil salesman when people are bringing theories over from Reddit. Is that what a typical Redditor sounds like?

 

As to the theory, why would people be going around opening up tombs? The Wildlings did it, but they were looking for something specific. Opening up people's graves is not something that people do just randomly.

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I disagree with the theory.

 

The only way to recognize a dragon is another dragon. I.E. if Jon is recognised by Dany or rides a dragon, he is a Targ. If not, no amount of minor items is gonna work. Aegon has the advantage of circumstantial evidence and NOT obviously being something else for ages. Plus not being in the NW. But even he can only be a Targaryen by Dany or by recognition of the great Lords of Westeros.

 

:agree: Jon being a dragonrider will do wonders to convince Dany and Aegon on down to the smallfolk.

 

Rhaegar's sons come before his siblings. Which is why the Golden Company have raised fAegon and have dithered over whether to wed him to Dany. 

 

Bring on Howland Reed to end this speculation.

 

P.S. something tells me that Jon's hair will turn silver while he is "dead", which won't give him legitimacy but may bring out his likeness to Rhaegar.

 

Love the bolded. Hope it happens. (I've just started a thread in the General forum to vent my frustration about readers practically ignoring the fact that death has had physical and mental consequences for everyone in the ASOIAF universe.)

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Why just the harp? That " might" prove something.... How about the crown of the old kings in the north?

The crown from the kings in the North would just prove that he is a Stark and we know that he has Stark blood. Rhaegar's harp is widely known by many characters.

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