Ramsay obviously wrote the pink letter

[jon316]

OK, so how does Ramsay know about Stannis's magic sword?

We know they haven't actually had a battle yet, so that's not how. You could say he tortured the info out of one of the spearwives or Mance, but I don't think he has any fucking clue Mance is in WF first of all, and why would he ask about Stannis's sword? Or why would one of the spearwives or Mance tell him about it even if they were being tortured? That part sticks out as the biggest hint for me that it was probably Mance. Also the term bastard is used repeatedly, and I don't think Ramsay would just start using the word now that he is "legitimized".

We do not know they havent had a battle. No one knows how much time has passed when jon got the letter. It had to be atleast long enough for 7 days of battle to happen or anyone with half a brain would figure out the letter had to be false.

[BitsOfBrains]

I don't find "my wife" or "wildling princess" or "his daughter" to be insults. Also, if the intent is to get a rise out of Jon, why use Mance's name?

There's a theme of false identities in that letter and I'm of a mind that it indicates something about the writer

Yeah there thats a good observation.

There are three people in that letter by name. Ramsay, Mance, and Reek. Everyone else is referred to in a way that does not include their name.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

We do not know they havent had a battle. No one knows how much time has passed when jon got the letter. It had to be atleast long enough for 7 days of battle to happen or anyone with half a brain would figure out the letter had to be false.

Winds of winter spoiler

We do know they haven't had the battle as Stannis is just chilling with Theon and waiting for the Frey cavalry to come and fuck them up. Stannis is clearly going to win at least part of the battle as well. Jon learned from Alys that the Karstarks allied with Stannis are on team Bolton, and they were the ones who brought the maester. Stannis interrogates the maester on what messages he has been sending, and he admits to drawing a map for Roose with Stannis current location. Stannis, like a bad ass, sets up his army been 2 small lakes and drills a ton of holes in the lakes. He also keeps a beacon lit 24/7. We know Roose has just sent out the Frey cavalry and the Manderly cavalry to fight Stannis and also to get them all out of the castle before bad shit happens. We readers know that Manderly hates the Freys and will obviously turn on them in battle. Finally, the guy leading the Freys into battle is said to be an idiot. So he is going to charge straight at the beacon and half his men will fall through the ice and drown. The other half will be killed by Manderly men. So yeah, the battle hasn't happened yet.

[a_motherf'ndragon]

One - wrong torture "their heads upon the walls of winterfell".

Two - no skin. Asha received a bit of theon's skin yet this letter has none. Exceptionally strange since he flayed them.

Three - the letter ramsay wrote to asha was written in what's assumed to be blood. The pink letter has no mention of this. Plus the handwriting is wrong.

Four - He had no way of knowing about the six spear wives or mance being alive. Those he could have got this information from died (holly & frenya). There is no reason to believe the others got caught.

Five - Wrong language. Black crows is a wildling term (not that i buy mance wrote it but it is a very good possibility). The writer is oddly focused on the wildlings "I want this wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe". Surely Stannis's family is far more important and should be more focused on.

And the wildlings often refer to Jon as bastard. Also a line by mance as rattleshirt.

I strongly am for Mance writing this letter, I agree to all the points about it not being Ramsay as he was raised a bastard and it doesn't make sense for him to laud that over Jon when Ramsay is one as well, and it is so tell-tale crow-speak to call Jon a bastard. Also Mance has everything to gain by being sent all the select wildlings on the wall, most of them are his family, and then he would also have the people Stannis holds dear, possibly for ransom, I don't know, either way this letter was not written by Ramsay.

[a_motherf'ndragon]

I've been thinking about this for a while, and the more I think about it the more obvious it is that Ramsay wrote the pink letter. I don't even think GRRM meant it to be a mystery. It's just fans looking for a hidden conspiracy where there is none.

Just look at the text of the letter and tell me that it isn't Ramsay to a tee. It's completely in character.

Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.

Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.

I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.

I want my bride back. I want the false king's queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want this wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.

Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.

I don't even think anyone could imitate Ramsay's character that perfectly.

So here's my question: Is there any reason why Ramsay couldn't be the author of the pink letter?

There is also a stronger position for Mance to have written the letter...to appear obviously written by Mance but only to one person, Jon Snow. Think about the common use of Bastard to name Jon in the letter and the match of the names Mance has used for other people at the wall, maybe this is Mance's signal to Jon that Winterfell is ripe and ready to be taken, and that the demands for all the people at the wall is meant to get everyone there riled up and ready to move on Winterfell, seems to make sense to me.

[GHOSTSTARK]

Well obviously he's lying about some of it.

you REALLY want it to be Ramsay that wrote the letter, dont you?

[oursisthefury69]

OBVIOOOOUUUSSSLLLYY atta way to internalize the generally dismissive one-sided nature of debates around here, which only applies to worthwhile/important/still up-in the air topics like this.

The title is such nonsense I won't begin to read the actual content of it. This is literally one of the only/very few undecided, borderline-unsolvable mysteries still up in the air after book 5. (At least for people into it enough to read it attentively and go online and such..) And the way you just entirely dig into one stance on the matter is a shining example of why productive discussion in these threads is a rare thing. Sure, people will bounce around ideas on here with eachother when its a matter of like debating who the Volanqar is in a discussion that discludes Cersie's only 2 brothers; But come time for a Pink Letter theory or discussion on the progressive totality of evidence for Tyrion being Aerys' son, its time to dig-in like a conservative rejecting Global Warming.

And your wrong btw and ftr

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

OBVIOOOOUUUSSSLLLYY atta way to internalize the generally dismissive one-sided nature of debates around here, which only applies to worthwhile/important/still up-in the air topics like this.

The title is such nonsense I won't begin to read the actual content of it. This is literally one of the only/very few undecided, borderline-unsolvable mysteries still up in the air after book 5. (At least for people into it enough to read it attentively and go online and such..) And the way you just entirely dig into one stance on the matter is a shining example of why productive discussion in these threads is a rare thing. Sure, people will bounce around ideas on here with eachother when its a matter of like debating who the Volanqar is in a discussion that discludes Cersie's only 2 brothers; But come time for a Pink Letter theory or discussion on the progressive totality of evidence for Tyrion being Aerys' son, its time to dig-in like a conservative rejecting Global Warming.

And your wrong btw and ftr

lol, I really like your analogy to conservatives rejecting global warming.

And I agree, I don't know that it was Mance for sure, but it is definitely not obvious who wrote the Pink Letter. There are only a few things in the story that I would consider obvious at all, like Dany will obviously come to Westeros with her dragons, and Arya is obviously coming back to Westeros to use her wolf pack, and Cersei is obviously going to die before the end, things like that. And even those are stretching the definition of obvious in my mind.

[jon316]

Winds of winter spoiler

We do know they haven't had the battle as Stannis is just chilling with Theon and waiting for the Frey cavalry to come and fuck them up. Stannis is clearly going to win at least part of the battle as well. Jon learned from Alys that the Karstarks allied with Stannis are on team Bolton, and they were the ones who brought the maester. Stannis interrogates the maester on what messages he has been sending, and he admits to drawing a map for Roose with Stannis current location. Stannis, like a bad ass, sets up his army been 2 small lakes and drills a ton of holes in the lakes. He also keeps a beacon lit 24/7. We know Roose has just sent out the Frey cavalry and the Manderly cavalry to fight Stannis and also to get them all out of the castle before bad shit happens. We readers know that Manderly hates the Freys and will obviously turn on them in battle. Finally, the guy leading the Freys into battle is said to be an idiot. So he is going to charge straight at the beacon and half his men will fall through the ice and drown. The other half will be killed by Manderly men. So yeah, the battle hasn't happened yet.

Just because there is a theon pov chapter in WoW doesnt mean its after the jon pov where ftw happens. Jon could br alive and well when that theon pov happens real world.

[The Answer]

Just because there is a theon pov chapter in WTruoW doesnt mean its after the jon pov where ftw happens. Jon could br alive and well when that theon pov happens real world.

True but it seems unlikely that the sample ch is that much further ahead of FTW. Based on knowing Manderlly and the hopelessness of the Frey's advancement, the only way the letter is truthful and is from Ramsay is if..... I don't really think it is!

[TerrorVoid]

It is obviously Mance.

[the conquering bastard 25]

There is one simple reason that the letter wasn't written by Ramsay's or Mance. Both men would know that Jon only knows Theon as Theon not Reek.

mance knew Jon on sight after seeing him twice. He Tells Jon he got a good look at All the stark children and the pups that ran at their feet. He would have seen Theon as well. Birth and breeding would demand Theon a place at the high table giving Mance a full view.

Why would either man ask for Reek back? It doesn't make sense unless the author was someone who has only met, spoken to or known Theon as Reek does that portion make sense. All the north knows who Reek really is as he gave Arya away.

Not to mention Mance would have known that arya was a fake on sight. So he was at WF for more than just Arya, mayhaps he was looking for something in the crypts? But what? I wonder...dragon eggs possibly

[Rohed]

Question... Why was Mance wanting to help Jon again ?

Also he much have another motive ... More reasonable that he is trying to help fix the North to establish wildlings south of the wall. He knows what is comming and is concerned about it.... It's possible he could want the wildlings to come to him and settle in Winterfell, as was stated he has Stark blood in him, the betrayal of Jon and movement of wildlings to his location make sense... But I don't think he is looking for another war.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

Just because there is a theon pov chapter in WoW doesnt mean its after the jon pov where ftw happens. Jon could br alive and well when that theon pov happens real world.

So you are suggesting that Stannis actually fought Ramsay already in 7 days of battle and lost, and is dead, and then Ramsay wrote that letter, Jon recieved the letter, got stabbed, and then after that...

...we get a chapter with Stannis, which takes place apparently at least 1 week before Ramsay started writing the letter. I'm going to say no. I know George brings back characters from the dead, but he doesn't kill them off screen then have a chapter where they are still alive and just haven't died yet. That's silly.

[TheCasualObserver]

Absense of evidence is not evidence in of itself. That being said, the lack of description about Ramsay's distinctive handwriting (described in the last two letters that Ramsay definitely wrote) is a sign that GRRM wants us to examine the letter a little more closely.

[Fear of Drowning]

Asha > Ramsay > Mance

Asha has all the information she would need from Theon. Her having to elude her captors explains the rushed appearance of the letter. As she is not Ramsay she doesn't have a seal. This is her best shot at engineering a means of escape.

While Ramsay is a definite possibility, he has more patience and intelligence than people give him credit for. Hunting is his favourite pastime and that requires a great degree of patience. He is obsessed with asserting his legitimacy, it seems very out of character for him to forgo the seal. Also this letter is a threat - for such a letter he would want to enclose skin. If he had Mance and wished to threaten the Wildlings he would include some of Mance's skin.

As for Mance, he knows about the snowstorm. He knows Stannis host has exhausted all forage outside Winterfell and what a bad position they are in. Why would he want to have his people march through the snowstorm to be in that same terrible position outside Winterfell?

[TheLightning Lord]

It is obviously Mance.

This.

[Fishwater]

Stannis desperately wants Jon in winterfell. All other attempts to persuade Jon failed. This was Stannis' last desperate attempt, and it worked.

My evidence? None, absolutely none.

[Fishwater]

Stannis desperately wants Jon in winterfell. All other attempts to persuade Jon failed. This was Stannis' last desperate attempt, and it worked.

My evidence? None, absolutely none.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Asha > Ramsay > Mance

Asha has all the information she would need from Theon. Her having to elude her captors explains the rushed appearance of the letter. As she is not Ramsay she doesn't have a seal. This is her best shot at engineering a means of escape.

I don't see it. Why should she even think of the Wall, all of a sudden? She's a squid, the Wall, the Watch, wildlings, all that are just abstract terms for her. It'd be as if Stannis had thought on his own about recruiting northern mountain clans for his host.

While Ramsay is a definite possibility, he has more patience and intelligence than people give him credit for. Hunting is his favourite pastime and that requires a great degree of patience. He is obsessed with asserting his legitimacy, it seems very out of character for him to forgo the seal. Also this letter is a threat - for such a letter he would want to enclose skin. If he had Mance and wished to threaten the Wildlings he would include some of Mance's skin.

As for Mance, he knows about the snowstorm. He knows Stannis host has exhausted all forage outside Winterfell and what a bad position they are in. Why would he want to have his people march through the snowstorm to be in that same terrible position outside Winterfell?

Snowstorm? So, the weather? The weather was obviously mild enough to send a raven. Add a few days for the bird to cross the distance to Castle Black, a few days to assemble a host, and a few weeks of march atop of that. A month? Two months? Local weather will change back and forth several times in that time. Plus: both wildlings and crows are quite familiar with harsh conditions, they can assess them on their own.