(spoilers) In my opinion GoT is not ASOIAF. <Not a Rant>

[Borodin]

i dont care if the books and show are different

what bothers me is how terrible the writing and storyline was this season

I agree. I can forgive a few creative liberties being taken here and there so long as it they remain faithful to the characters. Unfortunately, Game of Thrones is basically licensed fan-fiction at this point. Entertaining? Often. But no longer passable as good adaptation. None of the characters make sense. None of the plots make sense. It's fun non-sense.

[ErasmusF]

It's lame that people can't admit that the show does some things better than the books. The books are full of odious foreshadowing. Maybe they are all red herrings but it's annoying when so much of the foreshadowing runs headlong into itself.

Dany is a great example. Book readers hate her, for the most part. Show watchers love her, because they aren't privy to the fact that basically everything she's done has gone completely wrong and gotten the people around her killed. But they don't care because "DERGERNS! She's der female Abe Lincoln!"

[Ser Blake]

They are entirely different. Most of the book characters now have nothing in common with their show counterparts.

[Jasta11]

We actually have a pretty stellar computer game adaption of The Witcher however that has effectively replaced the books. That series is definitely getting of easier than GoT is IMO.

Even then the Witcher games differ from the book (they are utterly non-canon and lack some of the silly humor the books had). They're just well done so most readers don't mind. I heard horror stories about the Polish TV show, however.

As for GoT, it's not a bad adaptation (I've seen far worse) but not a great one either. I keep it entirely separate and enjoy it for what it is. It has its shining moments, some of them on par or better than books, but it also has some really weird or just plain bad writing, Dorne this season being a prime example.

[Night'sQueen]

Agree with OP that the show doesn't do the mystical elements well. D&D seem to have made a decision to stay away from some of it intentionally, which was a little disappointing to me personally because that's the part I find most compelling about the books (particularly Bran & BR, not so much Mel's parlor tricks and misread visions). As far as political intrigue, it's pretty watered down compared to the books but it has been the show's main focus and mostly they've done it well IMHO, in it's necessarily compressed and simplified way.

I think the problem in terms of book-fan expectations and satisfaction levels stems from the fact that the first season was pretty true to the first book, creating an expectation that it would be that way through the series. Each season they have gotten progressively further from the books as GRRM's plots become more and more complicated (sometimes overly so IMO). But some things are a VAST improvement over the books. Tyrion's endless journey and the interactions with Penny -- did anyone really want to watch that? :ack: I'm glad D&D just cut that shit out and got Tyrion to Dany where we know he is going to end up anyway. And Sansa/Alayne in the Vale with Sweetrobin. Bo-ring.

OTOH, some changes I absolutely hate. Like giving Ramsay a girlfriend?? Why humanize that psycho? And the sandsnakes are just god-awful. But frankly, I thought they were pretty lame in the books too.

Overall, I think books and show are apples and oranges. Or a decent inexpensive wine (show) vs. a really fine, complex wine to savor (books), and I enjoy them both on their own merits.

[Prince of Dinas Emrys]

My understanding of the events and characters on the show is improved by my reading the books, and I think my enjoyment of the show is enhanced by my reading as well. But I still approach them both differently, mentally and emotionally.

There are too many differences, many of which seem arbitrary and ill-considered, for me to think of the show as a solid adaptation of the books. From small details like the length of Brienne's hair, to larger concerns like Sansa's rapey adventure, the HBO series is simply not faithful to the novels. I find this disappointing, so I separate them into two entirely different, if related, works of fiction.

Where the books are subtle, multi-layered and ambiguous, the show is blunt, simplistic and obvious. Yet where the books can sometimes drag on with vague and seemingly unimportant prose, the series can be direct, crystal-clear and briskly paced. There is also the indisputable joy of seeing beloved characters and scenes brought to life, even if inaccurately.

So I enjoy both iterations for different reasons. But the books despite any flaws are the master work IMO, and the series is a kind of tawdry, lowbrow stageshow version of the (for me) superior literary original.

[Borodin]

Seasons 1, 2, 3, and 4 are to The Lord of the Rings as

Season 5 (and probably 6) is to The Hobbit.

[grumpus]

... less complexities and characters.

Fewer.

Where the books are subtle, multi-layered and ambiguous, the show is blunt, simplistic and obvious. Yet where the books can sometimes drag on with vague and seemingly unimportant prose, the series can be direct, crystal-clear and briskly paced. There is also the indisputable joy of seeing beloved characters and scenes brought to life, even if inaccurately.

So I enjoy both iterations for different reasons. But the books despite any flaws are the master work IMO, and the series is a kind of tawdry, lowbrow stageshow version of the (for me) superior literary original.

And this is the case with every adaptation of written stories into visual portrayals, especially novels. And doubly especially for 5000 pages of novels. Novels are the slowest medium of all, with completely different rhythms and expectations. Novels go into a timeless narrative mode that doesn't work for movies or TV. In a novel, you can freeze the action and go into a character's head for thoughts or flashbacks or their whole life story, taking the reader an hour to process, then snap back to real time and it's all good. Not so much in visual media.

GoT was always going to have to make massive, massive cuts. All things considered, I think D&D have mostly made good choices. I don't agree with all their choices, nor do I think they are the Coen brothers in their writing, but they've done ok and I think the show will end up in the same place as the books as far as telling us "how does this all work out?"

The interesting thing is that, up to now, what D&D have been making are adapted screenplays from novels. Now they are actually producing original screenplays based solely off of outlines and notes.

[Borodin]

The interesting thing is that, up to now, what D&D have been making are adapted screenplays from novels. Now they are actually producing original screenplays based solely off of outlines and notes.

It is only because they chose to essentialy skip AFFC that they are now treading on 'unwritten' territory.

[Connartist92]

GRRM says the same thing, i dont get why everyone has to whine over every detail. The show is more popular then the books ever will be. I cant get any of my friends to read the books as they get bored after a chapter but they are fully into game of thrones and watch it religiously. It makes sense not to have all these tiny characters like cold hands. My friends that watch the show constantly ask me whos who when certain characters come on the screen. how are casual show viewers able to keep up with all these random characters.

These forums are just full of whiny children. They riot saying they are done with a show because a girl is burned yet 100s of people have been burned and they dont care. White walkers dont look how people imagine and they give the show a 1/10.

wah wah wah thats all these forums are reddit has better discussions

No one is making you read these forums, ya know.

[polythenehigh]

Every adaptation is in some way/shape/form an alternate universe/entity from the source material. Look at say Batman comics, that's the source material and all the various movies, tv shows and video games just take from the source material and do their own spin on it and the "faithfulness" to the source material varies from adaptation to adaptation. The same basically applies to GoT/ASOIAF.

We are basically getting Ice and Fire Joel Schumacher edition.

[grumpus]

It is only because they chose to essentialy skip AFFC that they are now treading on 'unwritten' territory.

They didn't skip it, they made huge cuts and condensed a lot of things.

There was no way in hell the show was ever going to slow down the story the way GRRM did in those two unedited volumes. The novels themselves were too meandering and slow; D&D cut tons of things and plenty of unsullied viewers STILL thought the storyline was dragging. If the show had given us two seasons of introducing dozens of new characters who mostly talked and traveled slowly about, while the established ones disappeared or traveled slowly about talking and pondering things, there would have been a very understandable uproar.

[Night'sQueen]

...

Where the books are subtle, multi-layered and ambiguous, the show is blunt, simplistic and obvious. Yet where the books can sometimes drag on with vague and seemingly unimportant prose, the series can be direct, crystal-clear and briskly paced. There is also the indisputable joy of seeing beloved characters and scenes brought to life, even if inaccurately.

....

Well said.

[Mr Hodor]

Fortunately it wasn't hard to find. :)

“Luckily, we’ve been talking about this with George for a long time, ever since we saw this could happen, and we know where things are heading. And so we’ll eventually, basically, meet up at pretty much the same place where George is going; there might be a few deviations along the route, but we’re heading toward the same destination. I kind of wish that there were some things we didn’t have to spoil, but we’re kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. The show must go on.... And that’s what we’re going to do.” - David Benioff

You can see the full article (together with the video) here. It's from Vanity Fair.

thanks

[rayarts]

I hate this "People can only hate the show because they compare it to the books".

THATS BS

I first saw the show, then read the books.

And the ONLY MEASURE I apply to the show is

LOGIC ACCURACY CREDEBILITY

And thats where the show increasingly fails all by itself.

Many characters' storyarcs become illogical and bent to some stupid plotlines.

Many characters' behaviours become inconsistent or just pure cliché.

And the plot itself... There are so many holes in it by now, its practically swiss cheeze.

Scene jump from there to there, totally not possible or utterly illogical, just so it can work at any means possible.

Not to mention that by introducing Dorne this season, all of the sudden GoT looks almost like a cheap production from the 90s.

This all is just the show seen by itself. If it were a great show, I wouldn't mind if they inverted all of GRRM's intentions.

And it was a good show in the beginnings. But this season blew it. I cannot unsee all the mistakes.

[Valar Morghulis Not Today]

Books > Show/Movie in almost all cases... but that doesn't mean the Show/Movie isn't awesome in it's own right, viewed separately.

I agree in many ways with your comment however I think that it's just the case that the TV show needs fewer moving parts. The books are crazily complex and to include it all would confuse a non reading viewer considerably (many still have difficulty differentiating between some characters), and some of the more fantasy based elements are the easiest to cut. (There was no need for Coldhands to appear for instance).

I do miss the BwB and LSH though, would have been a lot better to see Jamie back in the Riverlands rather than Dorne.

Still, to include everything they'd have needed 20 episodes a season which is never feasibly given the cost of production anyway.

[gash is back]

let's cut the BS here, the amount of hate for the show dramatically increased this year only when it became clear the show was going to finish the story GRRM was taking decades to write, thereby spoiling the whole ending and main storylines. people hiding this fact by claiming disgust at the show writers abilities is quite sad.

[Borodin]

let's cut the BS here, the amount of hate for the show dramatically increased this year only when it became clear the show was going to finish the story GRRM was taking decades to write, thereby spoiling the whole ending and main storylines. people hiding this fact by claiming disgust at the show writers abilities is quite sad.

Nope. It was when D&D decided to take huge creative license on plotpoints that everyone already knew about (not spoilers) in Season 5. It has nothing to do with spoiling the book and everything to do with shoddy irresponsible adaptation.

[Spookykid]

Should never have been made a tv show, espcially with only 10 episodes a season. The books are from the pov of the characters involved, you cant do that on tv properly. That changes the entire feeling of the show not just altered storylines.

[Borodin]

Should never have been made a tv show, espcially with only 10 episodes a season. The books are from the pov of the characters involved, you cant do that on tv properly. That changes the entire feeling of the show not just altered storylines.

I don't know. I think 70 hours of high budget television, or the equivalent of 35 to 45 major motion pictures, is plenty of time to tell the story, if you are committed to telling it. Think about that: D&D were granted the equaivalent of almost 45 Hollywood films to tell GRRM's story.