Pigeon Pie Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Blades that were forged using spells probably related to dragons and dragon fire (Valyrian steel), and Dragon Glass, kill white walkers. And, since my guess is that Azor Ahai is The Last Hero (and notice here that I'm talking about the past events of the legend, so TPTWP doesn't figure into what I'm saying) then Lightbringer probably did kill white walkers as well. But from the forging story it doesn't seem like LB was Valyrian steel or dragon glass. What gave it the magical property of killing WWs, then? The answer is probably being tempered in Nissa Nissa's heart. Now, why? Does that mean that any sword tempered by stabbing someone will be magical? Why is Nissa Nissa special? Now, bear with me. Throughout the series, it's hinted that Targaryens/Valyrians have magic in their blood. Perhaps they have inherited properties from dragons, or God knows what... but their blood seems to share a part of the Valyrian magic that was used in the forging of Valyrian Steel and which we see in Drogon's blood. Hence why it was so important to wed brother to sister to keep the blood as pure as possible. Back to Nissa Nissa. If Valyrian blood contains fire magic... what if what made Lightbringer Lightbringer was that it was tempered with the blood of a Valyrian? So... blades made with Targaryen blood will be lethal to WWs? Now, let's talk about what Lightbringer is more figuratively and less literally. One theory I personally love is R+L=Lightbringer. If the original Nissa Nissa was a valyrian and the original Azor Ahai was a northman/probably a Stark, then the original Lightbringer, either sword or child, had the same magical properties as Jon. Perhaps Rhaegar found the AA story, guessed what I guessed here and did the math and this is what made him kidnap/run away with Lyanna. So, Jon being Lightbringer makes perfect sense, it's a perfect remake of the past, the only difference is that the Valyrian this time was the male and the Stark the female. And what other options did Rhaegar have? There were no female Targaryens living. Important edit about the timeline: From The World of Ice and Fire AS WESTEROS RECOVERED from the Long Night, (Valyria) was rising in Essos. The vast continent, stretching from the narrow sea to the fabled Jade Sea and faraway Ulthos, seems to be the place where civilization as we know it developed. So, Valyria and The Battle for the Dawn were probably not completely exclusive eras. In fact, the Valyrians probably did exist even before they located themselves in Valyria and created its civilization, so it's not impossible that Nissa Nissa was a Valyrian/pre-Valyrian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Didn't lightbringer predate the Valyrians by thousands of years? I could be wrong. Nissa, Nissa... Assassin. Yeah, I know, too many letters. I saw the word in there and just typed it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Pie Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Didn't lightbringer predate the Valyrians by thousands of years? I could be wrong. Nissa, Nissa... Assassin. Yeah, I know, too many letters. I saw the word in there and just typed it out. Do we know when Valyria started in a comparative timeline to the Long Night though? I could be wrong too... I'll make a visit to the wiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReleaseTheHound Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Nissa nissa = Sansa is sin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 #Blamesansa She's the reason there's no lemon trees in Braavos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Pie Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 #Blamesansa She's the reason there's no lemon trees in Braavos. Wrong thread? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cladinator Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Nissa Nissa would not have been Valyrian. They would have been years apart as well as a yet to be traversed sea. As the reader we're not so sure the story of Lightbringer is just an ancient story or something that really happened. Obviously, there is some importance to the story but we don't know how relevant it'll actually be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Pie Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Nissa Nissa would not have been Valyrian. They would have been years apart as well as a yet to be traversed sea. As the reader we're not so sure the story of Lightbringer is just an ancient story or something that really happened. Obviously, there is some importance to the story but we don't know how relevant it'll actually be. The Valyrian civilization came years after the Battle for the Dawn, but not necessarily pre-Valyrian people. They must have originated from somewhere, like it's implied that there were dragons in Asshai and the shadow lands. But whether or not the story of AA is true, I agree we don't know yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Through the years has the story changed of a man that slew his mother? Mhysa Mhysa nissa nissa ? It would make those who killed their mother in childbirth potential Azor Ahai reborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Right now, I'm torn even whether Nissa Nissa was a real actual person, let alone her ethnicity. The entire story reeks of an Important Philosophical Lesson Presented Under the Guise of an Allegory. Like, say, Midas, Sisyphus and all those other merry men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorn Snow Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Two words:Blood magic.Nearly all magic is based on blood in planetos. To wake dragons you need sacrifices, to make valyrian swords you need to sacrifice something as well I guess. Maybe the legend of lightbringer is merely a recipe for making a sword, you need the blood of a beast and blood of a human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Through the years has the story changed of a man that slew his mother? Mhysa Mhysa nissa nissa ? It would make those who killed their mother in childbirth potential Azor Ahai reborn. What were the first two attempts at forging then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 What were the first two attempts at forging then? the first and second trimester of pregnancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 the first and second trimester of pregnancy None of the imagery bears this out. I've had four children. I know what each trimester is like. The first two trimesters do not equate to tempering in water, or stabbing a lion through the heart. Maybe you could switch it around a little. The tempering in water is when the water breaks (the point at which this happens varies, so it's not exact but it could work). The second when second stage hits and you start feeling like you're being ripped apart from the inside. Not exactly lion or heart stabbing, but it sure hurts. Then the third is the moment of actual birth (or at least the crowning). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Nissa, Nissa... Assassin. Yeah, I know, too many letters. I saw the word in there and just typed it out. Through the years has the story changed of a man that slew his mother? Mhysa Mhysa nissa nissa ? It would make those who killed their mother in childbirth potential Azor Ahai reborn. the first and second trimester of pregnancy So, "Nissa Nissa" = "in assassin"? "Assassin in Nissa Nissa"? Does that her mother was an assassin? Or is the assassin in her? Azor Ahai's looking rather sketchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 tempering in water. most of what young AA is floating around in is basically water. And think of Lightbringer as the umbilical cord. Although you have had four children can you remember your own conception to birth? i know 30 50 and 100 days leaves us 3 mmonth short, but poettic license and 3 month premature is not unheard of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Alex Dayne Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Through the years has the story changed of a man that slew his mother? Mhysa Mhysa nissa nissa ? It would make those who killed their mother in childbirth potential Azor Ahai reborn. That could be plausible for a word to be changed or altered as it's passed down I mean we know that miri maz durr was a maegi and cersie encountered a maegi but remembered her as maggy but at it's core this seems like a theory created solely to have hope for tyrion being azor ahai which is very unlikely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 That could be plausible for a word to be changed or altered as it's passed down I mean we know that miri maz durr was a maegi and cersie encountered a maegi but remembered her as maggy but at it's core this seems like a theory created solely to have hope for tyrion being azor ahai which is very unlikely This theory would fit for Dany o Tyrion, both their mthers died in childbirth, possibly Jon aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Alex Dayne Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 This theory would fit for Dany o Tyrion, both their mthers died in childbirth, possibly Jon aswell your right I forgot about dany and jon and that might add a little more fuel to the fire for the theory that Azor Ahai is not an individual as much as it is a group of people and although disputed this could make the argument for both jon and tyrion to be the other 2 heads of the dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shierak Qiya Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Nissa Nissa lived long before there were any Valyrians. Before any Targaryen. Before any Stark. That is, if she lived at all. If she did live, she was of the First Men. Most likely one possessing their primitive physical features, such as very sharp, very long faces. She would look like Lyanna and Arya. She did not look anything like a refined Valyrian or modern day Andal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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