WeaselPie Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 A remarkable find by a friend, up for discussion. Per the wiki for Lyanna Stark Lyanna is described by all who knew her as beautiful, with the grey eyes and long face that characterize the Starks. The wiki cites AGoT Chapter 12, Eddard II. Lyanna's eye color is non-existent in this chapter. In fact, we can't find it stated anywhere that Lyanna had grey eyes. We've got quite a list of grey eyes in the story canon, but not once Lyanna. Waymar RoyceNed StarkSandor CleganeBrandon StarkStevron FreyMaester LuwinQuorin HalfhandStyr, the Magnar of ThennVaramyr SixskinsValJon SnowArya StarkBronze YohnHaldonMarlon ManderlyHomeless Harry StricklandArnolf KarstarkGordan I Grey-Eyes, a Gardener King Rodrik Cassel Benjen had blue-grey eyes, just to complete the picture of the Stark siblings in question. I'm also not including those with mixed or variations of grey eye color (Mance/Rattleshirt when Mance is glamored, Varamyr (warged), Petyr, possibly Roose Bolton, etc). Those included in the list are probably not as important- as a whole (except for the number of them) - as Lyanna NOT being on the list. We don't find it in novels, it's not in the WB, it's not in the App or SSM's. So we haven't found this in either canon or semi-canon or authoritative canon (Ran's recently new category? not sure how this will affect the wiki). Because a few people didn't read this part, I'll bold it:Arya reminding Ned of Lyanna doesn't count if he doesn't mention eye color. We all know people who look remarkably like relatives without having the same coloring. If anyone can find a canon reference that Lyanna had grey eyes, we'd be interested in seeing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Canon debates never end well. You should be able to decide for yourself what is and isn't a part of your ASoIaF experience without someone else telling you. Canon pretty much is just another word for opinion anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bastard Snow Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Is Arya not compared to Lyanna in both looks and personality often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 The wiki is inherently unreliable. I've probably found a couple dozen pet theories dressed up as facts or outright errors in it. And it's sourcing is truly abysmal. If the grey eyes aren't backed anywhere in the books, it's probably just another error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaselPie Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Canon debates never end well. You should be able to decide for yourself what is and isn't a part of your ASoIaF experience without someone else telling you. Canon pretty much is just another word for opinion anyways. sorry, I just want to know if Lyanna actually had grey eyes. Cause it's nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Hmmm, when GRRM doesn't mention a character's eye colour, something is usually a foot. Perhaps when Jon returns he might have changed in a way that brings out the true colour of his eyes (namely a Targaryen shade, inherited from Rhaegar), where before his eyes looked Starkish because of his dark hair. Or perhaps it's nothing, that is just as likely ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idio Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Is Arya not compared to Lyanna in both looks and personality often?Arya who has gray eyes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Interesting... I would also like to know where it is mentioned that elves have pointy ears in LOTR. That has been bothering me for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvana Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Is Arya not compared to Lyanna in both looks and personality often? Yes, but this doesn't necessarily mean that Lyanna shares the same eye colour as her. One can look strikingly similar to another without sharing the same eye colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Interesting...I would also like to know where it is mentioned that elves have pointy ears in LOTR. That has been bothering me for years.Never seen any hint for that either. And my reading list included pretty much everything published. Both cases seem to be preconceived notions messing up the actual work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Dragons Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 A remarkable find by a friend, up for discussion. Per the wiki for Lyanna Stark Lyanna is described by all who knew her as beautiful, with the grey eyes and long face that characterize the Starks. The wiki cites AGoT Chapter 12, Eddard II. Lyanna's eye color is non-existent in this chapter. In fact, we can't find it stated anywhere that Lyanna had grey eyes. We've got quite a list of grey eyes in the story canon, but not once Lyanna. Waymar RoyceNed StarkSandor CleganeBrandon StarkStevron FreyMaester LuwinQuorin HalfhandStyr, the Magnar of ThennVaramyr SixskinsValJon SnowArya StarkBronze YohnHaldonMarlon ManderlyHomeless Harry StricklandArnolf KarstarkGordan I Grey-Eyes, a Gardener King Rodrik Cassel Benjen had blue-grey eyes, just to complete the picture of the Stark siblings in question. I'm also not including those with mixed or variations of grey eye color (Mance/Rattleshirt when Mance is glamored, Varamyr (warged), Petyr, possibly Roose Bolton, etc). Those included in the list are probably not as important- as a whole (except for the number of them) - as Lyanna NOT being on the list. We don't find it in novels, it's not in the WB, it's not in the App or SSM's. So we haven't found this in either canon or semi-canon or authoritative canon (Ran's recently new category? not sure how this will affect the wiki). Because a few people didn't read this part, I'll bold it:Arya reminding Ned of Lyanna doesn't count if he doesn't mention eye color. We all know people who look remarkably like relatives without having the same coloring. If anyone can find a canon reference that Lyanna had grey eyes, we'd be interested in seeing it!That is quite remarkable how a preconceived notion has no basis in the canon. I wonder how:Lyanna is described by all who knew her as beautiful, with the grey eyes and long face that characterize the Starks. Made it in the wiki with a non-existent citation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Dragons Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Canon debates never end well. You should be able to decide for yourself what is and isn't a part of your ASoIaF experience without someone else telling you. Canon pretty much is just another word for opinion anyways.Not quite. Canon refers to the direct source, factual statements taken from a text. People can interpret passages differently, but the definition of canon is pretty clear cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaselPie Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Interesting...I would also like to know where it is mentioned that elves have pointy ears in LOTR. That has been bothering me for years. Conflating the LOTR books and the recent movies is no help for this discussion, although it's well-known that Tolkien fashioned his elves on earlier models in folklore who did indeed have pointed ears. In the Bakshi version they are not pointed because it wasn't in the canon, but Jackson chose to depict them as classic Elves. With pointed ears. So you're certain Lyanna had grey eyes? Not sure what you meant. I was talking about ASOIAF though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonnyscouse Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 It's probably a mixture of Arya having grey eyes and Jon having grey eyes given the general assumption of R+L=J. If Lyanna didn't have grey eyes then where did Jon get them from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 News Flash: the wiki is unreliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaselPie Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 It's probably a mixture of Arya having grey eyes and Jon having grey eyes given the general assumption of R+L=J. If Lyanna didn't have grey eyes then where did Jon get them from? I wonder the same. A lot of people believe Jon got his grey eyes from Lyanna. But if her eyes weren't grey, this is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonnyscouse Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I wonder the same. A lot of people believe Jon got his grey eyes from Lyanna. But if her eyes weren't grey, this is a problem. It opens up B+A but then there's the timeline problem, also opens up who Lyanna's child is, reigniting lemongate, or non-Blackfyre fAegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Dragons Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I wonder the same. A lot of people believe Jon got his grey eyes from Lyanna. But if her eyes weren't grey, this is a problem.Ned has grey eyes. He could always have been Ned's bastard. just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy of the Godswood Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I'm positive George says Lyanna has grey eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 What is the point of this? What're you suggesting her eye color was as an alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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