Can Jon Snow Become King?

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

initially i thought the Iron Throne was going to cease to exist, but given gurm's recent comments about him knowing who's going to sit on it at the end, there are three names i think are likely to sit on it at the end.

it's going to be Jon, Jamie or Tyrion.

Dany, is going to come to Westeros, and she's going to be disillusioned. She'll come and conquer the south while Jon and Sansa have the North, the Vale, and the Riverlands(thanks littlefinger) after Jon is married to Sansa.

Dany will help fight off the walkers and at the end of the War, there will be a dance of dragons between Jon and Dany, before another great council (Jamie, Tyrion, Sam Tarly, Edric Dayne will all partake in) where she'll lose th Crown to Jon.

"while Jon and Sansa have the North, the Vale, and the Riverlands(thanks littlefinger) after Jon is married to Sansa."

So Sansa inherits the Vale from Harry? and then marries Jon?

Sansa would not inherit the Vale, it would go to who ever is Harry's heir.

"Dany will help fight off the walkers and at the end of the War, there will be a dance of dragons between Jon and Dany, before another great council (Jamie, Tyrion, Sam Tarly, Edric Dayne will all partake in) where she'll lose the Crown to Jon."

Why would either of them agree to a Grand Council if they both control half of the Realm?

[TheLionOfTheRock]

You're right. Rookie mistake. Sansa isn't married, but she and whoever her future husband turns out to be, will have much more claim over The North than Jon would.

But then again, Jon is there, fighting the common enemy and making a name for himself. With the Starks kicked out and very weak, if Jon came back and made a claim, the people would support him. He would have to disregard Bran and Rickon, which doesn't seem like something Jon would do, however.

Sansa is still legally married to Tyrion Lannister, seeing as the High Septon is the only one who can annul unconsummated marriages. This would greatly complicate any claim she has one the North while Tyrion lives, especially seeing as her legal surname is now "Lannister". I'm not entirely sure the claim Jon has against her at any rate, if you consider that he was legitimized by Robb and that Sansa is of course a woman. If Jon comes back

[Khorkalba]

If my prediction is correct that the throne will change hands from Littlefinger to Euron to Daenerys before King's Landing is decimated by the Others, then Jon (after defeating the Others with the help of Bran) may feel it's his duty as a Targaryen to claim the throne and restore normality to Westeros.

[TheLionOfTheRock]

You're right. Rookie mistake. Sansa isn't married, but she and whoever her future husband turns out to be, will have much more claim over The North than Jon would.

But then again, Jon is there, fighting the common enemy and making a name for himself. With the Starks kicked out and very weak, if Jon came back and made a claim, the people would support him. He would have to disregard Bran and Rickon, which doesn't seem like something Jon would do, however.

Sansa is still legally married to Tyrion Lannister, seeing as the High Septon is the only one who can annul unconsummated marriages. This would greatly complicate any claim she has one the North while Tyrion lives, especially seeing as her legal surname is now "Lannister". I'm not entirely sure the claim Jon has against her at any rate, if you consider that he was legitimized by Robb and that Sansa is of course a woman. If Jon comes back and is released from his NW vows, I personally feel that he will have little trouble taking the North, Bran is considered dead by nearly all the North and is beyond the Wall and I personally believe that Rickon will end up trapped in the mind of Shaggydog, making his a "Shaggydog" story (this was a theory I came across the other day and strongly support). Thus, Jon would have no valid reason not to bring justice to his father and brother and rule the North in its time of need.

[TheLionOfTheRock]

You're right. Rookie mistake. Sansa isn't married, but she and whoever her future husband turns out to be, will have much more claim over The North than Jon would.

But then again, Jon is there, fighting the common enemy and making a name for himself. With the Starks kicked out and very weak, if Jon came back and made a claim, the people would support him. He would have to disregard Bran and Rickon, which doesn't seem like something Jon would do, however.

Sansa is still legally married to Tyrion Lannister, seeing as the High Septon is the only one who can annul unconsummated marriages. This would greatly complicate any claim she has one the North while Tyrion lives, especially seeing as her legal surname is now "Lannister". I'm not entirely sure the claim Jon has against her at any rate, if you consider that he was legitimized by Robb and that Sansa is of course a woman. If Jon comes back and is released from his NW vows, I personally feel that he will have little trouble taking the North, Bran is considered dead by nearly all the North and is beyond the Wall and I personally believe that Rickon will end up trapped in the mind of Shaggydog, making his a "Shaggydog" story (this was a theory I came across the other day and strongly support). Thus, Jon would have no valid reason not to bring justice to his father and brother and rule the North in its time of need.

[KINGpanther]

Whatever the outcome will be, keeping the vow or not will not be the question.

His watch has ended, that's not a loophole, that's a fact. Personely I think

the watch of the entire Night Watch will end when the wall comes down.

So if Jon wakes and the Wall and Watch are still standing, is Jon going to try to retake Leadership of the Watch, a small, divided and largely untrained force or press his claim for the Throne and the depleted but still sizeable resources to fight the Others.

Also I don't see Jon+Dany in a sexual relationship however I do see a strong family connection between the 2 evolving much like Jon+Arya.

[matchesmcfly]

"while Jon and Sansa have the North, the Vale, and the Riverlands(thanks littlefinger) after Jon is married to Sansa."

So Sansa inherits the Vale from Harry? and then marries Jon?

Sansa would not inherit the Vale, it would go to who ever is Harry's heir.

"Dany will help fight off the walkers and at the end of the War, there will be a dance of dragons between Jon and Dany, before another great council (Jamie, Tyrion, Sam Tarly, Edric Dayne will all partake in) where she'll lose the Crown to Jon."

Why would either of them agree to a Grand Council if they both control half of the Realm?

After Robert and Harry's deaths and Sansa's revealed to be Ned stark's daughter, the Lord's declarant will give the vale to Sansa. she'll be wardeness of the vale the north and the riverlands.

Because the iron throne will still stand by the end of it according to Gurm. Becuase we're do a dance of dragons according to gurm. so, somethings got to give.

[PyroclasticFlow]

Simply, yes. If (or when) he is able to survive and lead men once more, why couldn't he become king? Robert Baratheon rebelled against the Targaryens, along with Ned Stark and Jon Arryn, and after the rebellion "took the Iron Throne and named Jon Arryn his Hand". (awoiaf~Robert's Rebellion)

It says nothing of being named by a Grand Council or the like, he simply took it. Jon would have a much stronger claim if his parentage (R+L=J) is made common knowledge to the realm, and if he survives and plays an important role in the events to come (Others in the Seven Kingdoms, Dany arriving, Aegon situation)

[Pikachu101]

I don't want Jon to be king, it feels way too cliche for my liking and so far asoiaf has proved to be anything but that. It's obvious he's Azor Ahai/PTWP so making him king on top of that is just overboard

[Lord Varys]

For that to work the story has to develop a certain way.

First, the end of the Others plot has to lead to the dissolution of the Night's Watch - because the Wall is destroyed and effectively everybody in Westeros becomes a member of the order, fighting for his/her life, and when the crisis is resolved it is a final ending, and there is no need for a new Wall or a new Night's Watch. Else Jon Snow would be bound by oath and not particularly willing to claim a throne or a crown.

Second, he has to be formally adopted into the Targaryen family and become a dragonrider. Howland Reed finally telling some guys a tale isn't going to make him everybody's darling suddenly. Since pretty much everybody assumes his descent from Rhaegar makes him one of the three dragon heads, it is quite likely that he'll end up with a dragon - and it is already established how this could work considering that he and Tyrion have become friends back in AGoT.

But still, a member of House Targaryen - that is Daenerys - has to recognize him as her nephew, and formally acknowledge him as her kin. If that does not happen than nobody is going to believe that story regardless of what Howland Reed says. Nor is it very likely that he'd ever get a dragon if Dany or her people don't first believe that story. He may then either become her Heir Presumptive or her Prince Consort (or both) while Daenerys has no heirs of her own body (assuming she'll have children of her own). If Daenerys dies during the war he would then step in and take the throne. Or they may rule together if both of them survive the war.

For that to happen they have first to decide that the NW rules do no longer apply to anyone - which may happen if everyone is fighting for his life and the surviving Northmen/wildlings led by Jon are being pushed south by the advance of the Others.

I don't think there will a Great Council or any other sort of popularity vote naming Jon to be king simply because this will be a very anticlimactic end - we have just defeated the evil guys, and now we are calling everybody together to discuss legal claims and stuff? Not very likely. The game of thrones won't completely seize during the War for the Dawn, it will most likely simply take another form - the ultimate price will no longer be the Iron Throne but humanity's survival, and does trying to unite the survivors and lead the attack against the Others will have to win the game first, to have the necessary power to stage a counterattack.

This will most likely be done by the three dragon heads - Daenerys, Tyrion, and Jon Snow - and if all three of them survive we'll have Aegon and his sisters ruling the Realm together with reversed genders (Dany being a female Aegon, with Jon and Tyrion being the brother/nephew-consorts). If not, then either Dany, Jon, or Tyrion end up together or alone on the Iron Throne.

Considering the Rhaegar-Lyanna tragedy and Aegon's loss of his beloved Rhaenys my guess it may be Dany and Tyrion who remain, with Dany losing her beloved nephew (if she and Jon fall in love) simply because that would be a more tragic outcome.

[Faint]

Find out on HBO in the spring of 2017. :cool4:

[Fire Eater]

Potential allies:

Jon has the benefit of having no enemies except the Boltons, Freys and Lannisters whom everyone hates anyway and are headed for their downfall. The Northmen would back him as would former Targaryen supporters.

The Baratheons don't have an heir:

The Baratheons no longer control the IT. Given the life expectancy of kings in this series, Stannis likely isn't long for this world. I think Val will prove to be right about Shireen's greyscale, and the writers for the show confirmed Shireen will die in the books. As for the Lannisters, their power is being driven into the ground, especially thanks to Cersei, and they'll be facing more competent foes. That is without mentioning Robb crippled their power for a generation with the Siege of Riverrun and the Battle of Oxcross.

We need proof:

HR would provide testimony, and he has no rep as a liar or greedy and ambitious. Wylla could also provide it. However, I agree that testimony won't be enough. What is the one thing only people with Targaryen blood are said to do? Mount dragons. Dany could pose the challenge seeing as it would get rid of a potentially false claimant if he fails and is killed. Since the Starks have no known Valyrian blood, Jon would prove his heritage by successfully mounting a dragon.

Jon took a vow:

GRRM:

Is there any chance that Jon could be released from his oaths of the nightwatch?

The great council would have released Aemon from his maester's oath, so I suppose it would be possible. With an appropriate authority.

GRRM has said men from the NW have been released from their vows under rare circumstances. GRRM mentioned a Great Council, and the only reason one is called is to decide who sits the IT.

Jon has no motive:

Jon likely would use his claim is he thought it was the only way to get Dany's dragons and army to deal with an invasion by the Others of they get past the Wall. Besides, if the threat of the Others is dealt with, and Jon is chosen by a Great Council with the Wall having fallen and the NW ceasing to exist, I guess he would take it. He is used to have power thrust upon him.

Danaerys:

If Dany knows Jon is Rhaegar's son, then she would have to stand aside or she is no better than Robert when he took her father's throne. She knows that as her claim is based on being the rightful Targaryen heir. I doubt she would usurp the son of the brother she worshiped. Dany will leave Slaver's Bay or what is the point of her arc if it won't impact the storyline in Westeros?

Jon will sit the IT, or what is the point of giving him a secret royal heritage if it won't impact the storyline.

[Sanset]

In short, even if R+L=J is true, Jon is unlikely to end up sitting on the Iron Throne.

I think it doesn't really matter if he sits in the Iron Throne. I think that if he is the true king and he loves his kingdom the magic will work. The usurpers are just puppets, a waste of time. The story will repeat itself until the kingdom gets over the puppets loop. The story and the environment or the scenery are like characters, the are an active part in the tale. Only, they don't act like people-characters.

[matchesmcfly]

there are 3 things that would make it fairly easy for him to claim and 2 of those things are up in the air at this point.

A Dragon.

I personally think He'll end up with Rhaegal. It's named after his father, and has first men colors.

Aegon the Conqueror's crown.

Lost in Dorne, it's possible that Rhaegar may have found it while he and Lyanna were in Dorne. could be what's in Lyanna's crypt (it's better than a fucking harp.)

Longclaw being Blackfyre. this one is a ridiculous longshot, but the theory is sexy as hell and i hope it ends up true.

and that isn't even considering his merits as a Person, a leader and a Commander.

just thinking about it.

Jon arriving for the great council on Rhaegal, with Blackfyre on his hip and Aegon's crown his head.

Dany would be looking flabby and sick like Nixon during Nixon and Kennedy's first debate.

[Hajk]

Because the iron throne will still stand by the end of it according to Gurm.

I think I missed when and where he said this. Is there a link? Thanks.

[Lord Varys]

Fire Eater,

Jon Snow has sworn his oath in front of a heart tree, though. The First Men understanding of their gods would not allow for it to be put aside as easily as a vow sworn in a sept. Not to mention that the Northmen - in whose culture Jon has been raised - usually put Night's Watch deserters down without any compromise (e.g. the story about Lord Ryswell's son).

The allies discussion doesn't lead anything. If the Targaryen-Baratheons die, then other dynasties could conquer the Iron Throne. Euron doesn't have any claim but he still might sit on the throne (for a time). The South is not going to turn to some obscure Stark-Targaryen descendant if the political game is still played.

Jon has to become a Targaryen for all the world to see - which means he has to be accepted as Rhaegar's son by either Daenerys or Aegon (I assume it will be the former). But we should also keep in mind that the Targaryen dynasty may bring forth other potential pretenders - Dany's consorts. Whoever they may be may claim the Iron Throne in their own name or in the name of their young children should Dany die prematurely. If those guys control the throne and the dragons Jon Snow should have little or no chance to challenge them, simply because they have all the power.

That is one of the main reasons why I believe Jon has to become part of Dany's circle if he is supposed to have any hope of claiming anything. Not to mention that this should be necessary for the whole fight against the Others plot.

There is no reason to believe that these two people will oppose each other when the truth is revealed - Jon would be the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and Dany already believes/knows that her brother loved Lyanna. The whole Aegon thing may make her somewhat weary, but Jon Snow most likely is not going to meet Daenerys in a position of strength - if George was going to buildup things in that direction he'd not have build up another civil war in the North in ADwD, and another possible conflict at the Wall.

[Hajk]

there are 3 things that would make it fairly easy for him to claim and 2 of those things are up in the air at this point.

A Dragon.

I personally think He'll end up with Rhaegal. It's named after his father, and has first men colors.

Aegon the Conqueror's crown.

Lost in Dorne, it's possible that Rhaegar may have found it while he and Lyanna were in Dorne. could be what's in Lyanna's crypt (it's better than a fucking harp.)

Longclaw being Blackfyre. this one is a ridiculous longshot, but the theory is sexy as hell and i hope it ends up true.

and that isn't even considering his merits as a Person, a leader and a Commander.

just thinking about it.

Jon arriving for the great council on Rhaegal, with Blackfyre on his hip and Aegon's crown his head.

Dany would be looking flabby and sick like Nixon during Nixon and Kennedy's first debate.

Yet that wouldn't be decisive. From TPatQ (back when eveyrone and their cats were dragonriders):

Those who sat at the black council counted themselves loyalists, but knew full well that King Aegon II would name them traitors. Each had already received a summons from King’s Landing, demanding they present themselves at the Red Keep to swear oaths of loyalty to the new king. All their hosts combined could not match the power the Hightowers alone could field. Aegon’s greens enjoyed other advantages as well. Oldtown, King’s Landing, and Lannisport were the largest and richest cities in the realm; all three were held by greens. Every visible symbol of legitimacy belonged to Aegon. He sat the Iron Throne. He lived in the Red Keep. He wore the Conquerer’s crown, wielded the Conquerer’s sword, and had been anointed by a septon of the Faith before the eyes of tens of thousands. Grand Maester Orwyle sat in his councils, and the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard had placed the crown upon his princely head. And he was male, which in the eyes of many made him the rightful king, his half sister the usurper.

[El Guapo]

We need proof:

HR would provide testimony, and he has no rep as a liar or greedy and ambitious. Wylla could also provide it. However, I agree that testimony won't be enough. What is the one thing only people with Targaryen blood are said to do? Mount dragons. Dany could pose the challenge seeing as it would get rid of a potentially false claimant if he fails and is killed. Since the Starks have no known Valyrian blood, Jon would prove his heritage by successfully mounting a dragon.

I pray to the old gods and the new that having Jon "prove" his heritage by mounting a dragon ever appears in the book as that would be beyond lame.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

I pray to the old gods and the new that having Jon "prove" his heritage by mounting a dragon ever appears in the book as that would be beyond lame.

Yeah, super lame. I hate cool stuff too.

Seriously. Let's see. John is the main character, likely a Targaryen and probably the best weapon against the Others (TPwwP), there are dragons in the story that belong to the Targaryens and the Targaryens used to ride them.

Guess what, Jon is going to ride a dragon by the end of the book. You might want to stop reading right now.

[Dany's Golden Fleece]

Jon becoming King is very Aragorn-esqe and Tolkien-esqe. CAn't see GRRM going that route.

If this series was a normal fantasy story I would agree, but it isn't. We have seen the bastard orphan with hidden royal blood that saves the day and becomes King and rules with benevolence and wisdom a lot of times before.

In fact we are so used to this standard baseline of a story is why so many people think it will happen.