Dunk and Egg Parallels

[Isobel Harper]

I may be in the minority but I have serious doubts that Baelor was killed by his brother...but I'll save that for another time with the hopes that the Dunk and Egg saga will enlighten us further at some point in the future.

I'm curious if Aerion didn't kill him. Maekar and Aerion both had maces in the scene. However, I think it'll be one little mystery that is never solved. In AFFC, Aemon wonders whether his father found peace over his responsibility in Baelor's death. If it was determined to be otherwise, I don't think that Aemon would make that reflection.

[King17]

Podrick is egg and podrick will be king

[Fire Eater]

Not necessarily, He's posing as Young Griff in this scene, not Aegon.

That too, but in Westeros it is in reverse.

I'm curious if Aerion didn't kill him. Maekar and Aerion both had maces in the scene. However, I think it'll be one little mystery that is never solved. In AFFC, Aemon wonders whether his father found peace over his responsibility in Baelor's death. If it was determined to be otherwise, I don't think that Aemon would make that reflection.

Aerion was focused on Dunk, the man who beat him. The trial would end with Dunk's death.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

I've toyed with drawing a parallel between the Puppet Show Incident in THK with The Joffery-Arya Incident on AGoT.

Aerion = Joff - the Bad Guy

Dunk = Arya - the Knight who isn't a Knight

Egg = Nymeria - the Knight's Companion who gets him in trouble

Tanselle = Mycah - the Victim

Daeron the Drunken = Sansa - the Liar

Maekar = Cersei - the Vengeful Parent

Baelor Breakspear = Ned - the King's Hand who was powerless to stop things

Lord Ashford = Robert - the Judge.

The difference, of course, is that Robert rendered judgement instead of having a fair trial, so the results are completely different. In THK, the Bad Guy loses and is disgraced, as is the Liar, although the Liar semi-repented. The VP loses and is cursed, the Victim gets away, and the Kinght and the KC stay together. In AGoT, the BG and the VP triumph, the Liar suffers, the K and the KC are separated, and the victim dies.

In THK, the King's Hand stands up to the Judge, and sacrifices his life to obtain justice. In AGoT, the King's Hand doesn't stand up to the Judge, justice doesn't win, two innocent lives are lost, and the KH eventually dies anyway.

[Julia H.]

This thread is to look at characters in Dunk and Egg and see their parallels in present characters in the series. I'm going to start with a few

Aerion Brightflame

Aerion is the easiest one to draw, clearly Viserys and Aerys's parallel. He is one of the mad Targaryens with no sense of honor, and an obsession with dragons and using wildfire to make himself into one. He is basically the at the extreme-most end of Targaryens, the side of madness.

Maekar

Maekar is clearly Stannis. He is a younger son living in his brother's shadow, and has a lot of bitterness stemming from that as well as being overlooked by his older brother, Aerys, for not being named Hand just as Stannis was overlooked by Robert for Hand. Both men just sulk at their respective seats Dragonstone and Summerhall. He is a bitter, hard man who is a competent soldier, but he doesn't win love easily. He is also haunted by the death of his brother that he had a hand in.

Aegon (Egg)

I think Egg is Daenerys. Egg traveled extensively in his youth as Dany does with both of them having to deal with abusive, mad older brothers. As king, Aegon showed compassion for the peasants at the bottom of the social hierarchy, and tried to pass reforms to help them. However, he had to compromise and deal with opposition. Dany showed compassion for the slaves of Slaver's Bay, and worked to gain more rights for them. Like her forebear, she has had to deal with the frustration of having to compromise her reforms with the houses that opposed the measures. Aegon wished he had dragons to back his reforms while Dany has kept her dragons chained up, and unable to use them to create the changes she wants.

Daemon II Blackfyre

Daemon is definitely fAegon. Both are Blackfyre Pretenders crossing the Narrow Sea from Essos to Westeros in their campaign to win the IT. Daemon dyed his hair to hide its silver-gold color while fAegon dyed his hair for the same reasons with both washing the dye from their hair when they had arrived in Westeros and publicly revealed themselves. Of course, like Daemon did with Bittersteel, I think Aegon won't heed his top commander Connington. Bittersteel was a pragmatic, no-nonsense man who wanted a professional army, a quick invasion and likely assassins and spies while Daemon wanted a tourney, a dragon hatching and pageantry or what would make a good story. I think like Daemon, Aegon, will want to live on in song, and that will be his downfall.

Baelor Breakspear

Now onto my favorite character from THK: Baelor Breakpear. Baelor is at the exteme-most on the end opposite to Aerion, the side of greatness. I think Baelor Breakspear, the Prince of Dragonstone, is a parallel to Jon, who is also the Prince of Dragonstone. Jon, like Baelor Breakspear, doesn't look like a Targaryen prince with his dark hair and coloring from his mother's side as well as scarred face compared to as well as Baelor's nose that has healed improperly. Baelor is the right mix of pragmatism and idealism, a middle ground between Ned and Tywin. He manages to be practical enough to insist upon hostages from Blackfyre supporters after the Blackfyre Rebellion just as Jon insists upon hostages from the wildlings after the Battle of the Wall. Baelor also believes in chivalry and justice enough to fight on behalf of a common hedge knight in a trial by seven against his own kin while Jon demonstrates his beliefs in those ideals by defending a complete stranger, Sam, in the practice yard. Finally, both their fathers were married to Martells.

Absolutely brilliant! Excellent parallels. :bowdown:

This is brilliant. Jon / Baelor is frightening since Baelor died at the hands of one of his own while nobly defending someone else, so clearly you must be wrong about that one. ;)

Well, as frightening as this parallel is, Jon has already been stabbed by his brothers, and it works for me as a parallel even if he survives. (Even Baelor lived long enough after the trial of seven to save Dunk's life once more.) Besides, there is an important difference: Maekar did not want to kill Baelor, yet, Baelor died. Jon's "brothers" wanted to kill Jon - so perhaps it suggests that Jon will live. ^_^

Similarly, Baelor was raised to be a king but never became one. Jon was not raised to be a king, so ... well, who knows?

Dunk paralleling Brienne: It made me wonder who Tanselle might parallel - Jaime perhaps? Jaime lost a hand, Tanselle had her finger(s) broken. They both have a dragonslayer aspect - Jaime, the Kingslayer, killed a Targaryen, and though Tanselle worked the puppet dragon (not the puppet knight), she was accused of treason on account of the puppet dragon being slain.

[Gibzit]

Could Tyrion be Daeron the Drunkard's parallel?

[Shuvuuia]

Dunk paralleling Brienne: It made me wonder who Tanselle might parallel - Jaime perhaps? Jaime lost a hand, Tanselle had her finger(s) broken. They both have a dragonslayer aspect - Jaime, the Kingslayer, killed a Targaryen, and though Tanselle worked the puppet dragon (not the puppet knight), she was accused of treason on account of the puppet dragon being slain.

Long Jeyne Heddle? (not in a romantic way, alas). Dunk protected Tanselle, Brienne protected the orphans in the Inn Jeyne and her sister were running. Tanselle disappeared but left Dunk his shield, while Jeyne tended to Brienne's injures despite her believe that Brienne is guilty of many crimes.

[Jô Maltese]

Nice OP FE.

As for parallels with the D&E series, we also have IMHO:

- Duck & fAegon (obviously)

- Brienne and Pod (quite obvious as well)

- The Hound and Arya...

-... And arguably Tyrion both as Dunk (for Jon and Dany) and Egg (traveling all the time often with another Dunk - Bronn or JC or Jorah, and maybe himself a hidden Targ)

[Fire Eater]

Absolutely brilliant! Excellent parallels. :bowdown:

Well, as frightening as this parallel is, Jon has already been stabbed by his brothers, and it works for me as a parallel even if he survives. (Even Baelor lived long enough after the trial of seven to save Dunk's life once more.) Besides, there is an important difference: Maekar did not want to kill Baelor, yet, Baelor died. Jon's "brothers" wanted to kill Jon - so perhaps it suggests that Jon will live. ^_^

Similarly, Baelor was raised to be a king but never became one. Jon was not raised to be a king, so ... well, who knows?

Dunk paralleling Brienne: It made me wonder who Tanselle might parallel - Jaime perhaps? Jaime lost a hand, Tanselle had her finger(s) broken. They both have a dragonslayer aspect - Jaime, the Kingslayer, killed a Targaryen, and though Tanselle worked the puppet dragon (not the puppet knight), she was accused of treason on account of the puppet dragon being slain.

Regarding Brienne and Jaime, Brienne is Dunk's descendant and from WOIAF, we learn Jaime is Rohanne Webber's descendant. Dunk and Rohanne had an unrequited love, and Jaime and Brienne could be requiting what their ancestors didn't. Rohanne gave Dunk a horse and a braid of her red hair while Jaime sent Brienne off with a horse and a red sword, Oathkeeper.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Regarding Brienne and Jaime, Brienne is Dunk's descendant and from WOIAF, we learn Jaime is Rohanne Webber's descendant. Dunk and Rohanne had an unrequited love, and Jaime and Brienne could be requiting what their ancestors didn't. Rohanne gave Dunk a horse and a braid of her red hair while Jaime sent Brienne off with a horse and a red sword, Oathkeeper.

It's like Sarum.

[Shuvuuia]

I'd make a few changes. I think Cersei fits better as the Aerion parallel. We never see Viserys use wildfire, and Aerys is dead by the time the series begins. Yet Cersei orders it made for the battle and then uses what's left/ new stuff to burn the tower of the hand. I think her and Jaime also clearly represent the line about the gods flipping a coin and 1 being mad and the other great, so we have Cersei and Jaime.

I think Cersei's character is too dependent on her upbringing, on Tywin's relationship with his children, on her internalised misogyny and her relationships with her twin and the prophesy. There is no similar motiffs with Aerion. And their use of wildfire is different - Aerion wants to transform himself into a dragon, Cersei uses/will use it to destruct.

While with Viserys there is a parallel that both are princes who think of themselves as dragons in human form. It's Viserys who introduces the reader to Targs refering to themselves as dragons and Aerion brings it to extreme.

(and I'm pretty sure the coin line refers not to several people in one generation, but that each individual Targ is born either mad or great; although there are plenty of them who are in between)

Edit: but I see Cersei-Aerys parallels, especially because both are tied to Jaime

[Lost Melnibonean]

I'm gonna say Aerion is more like Joffrey. Both apparently abused their little brothers and a cat.

[Shuvuuia]

I'm gonna say Aerion is more like Joffrey. Both apparently abused their little brothers and a cat.

poor cats :frown5: 

but I think Joffrey was at age when he didn't realized he was hurting it or doing anything wrong, as he showed the kitten to his dad. While Aerion as far as I understand, killed his cat to hurt Egg and denied it.

 

Not that Joffrey grew up better, of course, didn't he killed Tommen's pet fawn later?

But at least he didn't really think of himself as a personification of a stag. 

 

I wonder, at what age Aerion started showing his tendencies and what was Maekar and Dyanna's parenting like? Joffrey had terrible parents, Viserys was on his own for most of his life and in very difficult circumstances, but Aerion was very priviledged and where does his cruelity comes from? Was it a true Targ madness he was born with?

[Lost Melnibonean]

poor cats :frown5: 
but I think Joffrey was at age when he didn't realized he was hurting it or doing anything wrong, as he showed the kitten to his dad. While Aerion as far as I understand, killed his cat to hurt Egg and denied it.
 
Not that Joffrey grew up better, of course, didn't he killed Tommen's pet fawn later?
But at least he didn't really think of himself as a personification of a stag. 
 
I wonder, at what age Aerion started showing his tendencies and what was Maekar and Dyanna's parenting like? Joffrey had terrible parents, Viserys was on his own for most of his life and in very difficult circumstances, but Aerion was very priviledged and where does his cruelity comes from? Was it a true Targ madness he was born with?

Dude, unless you're old enough to cut a cat open to see it's babies, you're old enough to know you're doing something wrong. He was only a few years older than Egg, and Egg says Aerion threatened to cut off his junk when he was very young. So, I think it's lafe to say he was a preteen or young teenager.

[Shuvuuia]

Dude, unless you're old enough to cut a cat open to see it's babies, you're old enough to know you're doing something wrong. He was only a few years older than Egg, and Egg says Aerion threatened to cut off his junk when he was very young. So, I think it's lafe to say he was a preteen or young teenager.

I thought he was about 6-8? From the way he went to Robert for approval and didn't Robert knocked his baby teeth out?

Obviously, it was fucked up and yes child at that age should know it's wrong to hurt cats, but with his sheltered but at the same time negleted upbringing it won't surprise me if he didn't, like Robert Arryn when he wants men to fly. Or kids from 19 century novels, it always surprises me how cruel they seem for a modern audience. 

What I want to say is that I think that Aerion was much more self-aware and less deluded in that aspect of his cruelity. Not that Joffrey was a lil angel.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I thought he was about 6-8? From the way he went to Robert for approval and didn't Robert knocked his baby teeth out?
Obviously, it was fucked up and yes child at that age should know it's wrong to hurt cats, but with his sheltered but at the same time negleted upbringing it won't surprise me if he didn't, like Robert Arryn when he wants men to fly. Or kids from 19 century novels, it always surprises me how cruel they seem for a modern audience. 
What I want to say is that I think that Aerion was much more self-aware and less deluded in that aspect of his cruelity. Not that Joffrey was a lil angel.

I meant to say "if you're old enough to..." I think we're arguing over how many angels are dancing on the tip of Lion's Tooth.

[Lost Melnibonean]

And I think Egg is more similar to Arya.

[Shuvuuia]

I meant to say "if you're old enough to..." I think we're arguing over how many angels are dancing on the tip of Lion's Tooth.

I'm not arguing, I just love to talk about D&E, because no one I know in RL read them.

[XSarellaX]

I always thought both Dany and Jon had parallels to Egg. Jon was also a reformer who tried to change things too fast and lost supporters on the way, while winning the love of the people benefited by his policies. 

He has some similarities to Baelor, I suppose, but that comparison may be too high of a praise for a 17 year old hahaha

[Nic G]

Bittersteel and stannis