Ser Friendzoned Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 That would be very interesting... Jon VS Dany Who would win? If Jon can rally Westeros, that is, could he defeat Dany? From what we have seen of the Unsullied being killed by guys in robes with knives, I am guessing certainly the Armies of the Seven Kingdoms would destroy them. If She got some Dothraki, then she might have more of a chance, but Dothraki do not use bows, so I think they too, would suffer against men in armor. Mongols did well against men in armor but they used bows a lot. The dragons would help a lot, but Drogon was wounded bad in the arena, the Seven Kingdoms probably have ballistas too, which would hurt worse than spears. Jon is also the better commander, Dani is not a military expert and struggles to rule, let alone command an Army. She does have one big thing helping her, she is alive and Jon's fate is in limbo right now. Definitely good points. Dany's few good scenes were with Jorah and when her dragons show up. Jon's far more interesting. If Jon is alive, I do wonder how they might meet/form an alliance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Lou of House Reed Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 They better build it up way more imo or the average watcher will be like Rh...who? Is Jon's dad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Morghulis Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 A few seasons/years ago, the show runners had no idea how long the series would run. There was NO way they could cast Rhaegar in that dream sequence. Now that D&D have expressed desire to wrap it up in seven seasons, we saw quite a bit of RLJ theory in season 5. Up until this season, they have been subtle with their hints, enough to make the average viewer suspicious. Now they seem more intent on dropping real clues. Stanni's comment to his wife, to me, was as big as a clue can get Combine this with that others pointed out (the talk of Lyanna, Rhaeger relationship) plus the S6 flashback rumors, its quite clear the show is setting up the big reveal for the final season (season 7...or 8?). Yes, it is possible that after season 1 they were not totally sure that they would get to complete the saga, but its success meant they probably knew they would. Budget constraints may also have meant they swapped the Rhaegar scene for Khal or the Iron throne or Wall, something viewers know, but as this and he is such a crucial part of the story, if he's truly Jon's father of course, then I would still have put in more mentions of Rhaegar in 2, 3 and 4. The books allude to him a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Just wanted to chime in here- to use another HBO series as a reference, a lot of Boardwalk Empire's backstory (which was vaguely, minimally, or coincidentally mentioned in passing throughout the show but only here and there, bits and pieces etc.) was brought into knowledge BIG TIME in the last season - through flashbacks. Most people seemed to think that the flashbacks were some of the best stuff in the entire series.... the main character as a young child and his interactions with his brother, his father, The Commodore, the then-sheriff , Gilian Darmody, how they all came together and how it affects them for years to come and in the end, etc. In fact, they show two different younger versions of the main character, a kid (who was great, absolutely great) and a young man version WHO DID AMAZING WORK, one of the best acting impression jobs I have seen , ever. I state this because, while we don't know really, it has been said there will be flashbacks in the next season. It looks like there will be young kid flashbacks with child-Ned and child-Robert Baratheon and who knows what else. However, if they choose to release major information in the storyline or serious historical info crucial to the story, flashback form is not only possible and in fact probable, it can make for amazing show-watching. What would be better, to get a new actor playing new character - Howland Reed (which does of course hold some awesomeness) explaining stuff up to and including R+L=J etc. OR -- a flashback fight scene at the Tower of Joy w/ the Northmen vs. The Big 3 Kingsguard and after Arthur Dayne either gets Howland'ed or is allowed to live and escape into exile/disguise, and seeing Lyanna make Ned promise not to tell about R+L=J etc? I am all about the flashbacks, and think that when done well (as in Boardwalk Empire, which were done perfectly) it can really, really add to the overall show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I am all about the flashbacks, and think that when done well (as in Boardwalk Empire, which were done perfectly) it can really, really add to the overall show. Much better than having Littlefinger telling Sansa all about Harrenhall in the catacombs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Much better than having Littlefinger telling Sansa all about Harrenhall in the catacombs. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Much better than having Littlefinger telling Sansa all about Harrenhall in the catacombs. I know it's probably an equal-odds bet you were being sarcastic as much as being serious, but I kind of agree, I didn't care for the Littlefinger part in the catacombs- one of the main reasons was because I don't like Littlefinger as a character, because I think Varys was dead-on when he said "He is one of the most dangerous men in the realm, he would burn this country to the ground if he could be king of the ashes - that is pretty much the definition of Littlefinger. ALSO- GRRM has repeatedly reinforced the notion of unreliable narrator. The quick example is the Sansa/Hound kiss that simply did not happen, yet she insists it did. But it didn't. GRRM's answer was simple : "Sansa is an unreliable narrator." Fair enough, and perhaps that kiss is nothing more than a little bit of text in a big story. HOWEVER, we must start thinking - by extension- what ELSE that Sansa has said or was in her PoV etc. is simply false, or opposite, or wrong, etc because of her "unreliable narration" ..... ? OR EVEN MORE IMPORTANT, in my humblest opinion, is the supposition that Sansa is not the only unreliable narrator in the book, so - What ELSE could be absolutely wrong that we're taking as right? Who else could have said something completely wrong, or what fact we believe is actually incorrect, because of "unreliable narration" ? To give an example, just making this up here so there is no question of authenticity etc- Say Ser Chivalrous Knight of House Homeboy states "A Faceless Man can swap faces as many times as he wants because he is a faceless man" - and we have all accepted that as the truth. Then down the road, Arya swaps her face for the 5th time, and drops dead as a doornail. AND WHY, we all ask?? Why did Arya drop dead as a doornail? OH BECAUSE, we come to find out, In fact a Faceless Man can only swap their face 4 times before suffering a Fatal Fifth. BUT...But....but.....Ser Chivalrous said..... and he's from House Homeboy!!! THEY KNOW their faceless men and they're chivalrous so they don't lie!!!!! "Ser Chivalrous is an unreliable narrator." Entire premise of important fact changed! Story has changed! Big freaking deal IMHO! All that risk is removed by having a flashback scene, because we're seeing what actually happened. Rather than having someone like Littlefinger tell us a story, we get to actually flash back and see what happened. And also, it would be cool. Especially if we get to see a young Ned played by Sean Bean , an awesome actor (I am pulling for McShane but I know it's not what he's there for) playing Howland Reed, fighting against Oswell Whent (Jason Statham), Gerold The Bull Hightower (Vinnie Jones), and Arthur Dayne (Philip Winchester) .... oh yeah baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I know it's probably an equal-odds bet you were being sarcastic as much as being serious, but I kind of agree, I didn't care for the Littlefinger part in the catacombs- one of the main reasons was because I don't like Littlefinger as a character, because I think Varys was dead-on when he said "He is one of the most dangerous men in the realm, he would burn this country to the ground if he could be king of the ashes - that is pretty much the definition of Littlefinger. ALSO- GRRM has repeatedly reinforced the notion of unreliable narrator. The quick example is the Sansa/Hound kiss that simply did not happen, yet she insists it did. But it didn't. GRRM's answer was simple : "Sansa is an unreliable narrator." Fair enough, and perhaps that kiss is nothing more than a little bit of text in a big story. HOWEVER, we must start thinking - by extension- what ELSE that Sansa has said or was in her PoV etc. is simply false, or opposite, or wrong, etc because of her "unreliable narration" ..... ? OR EVEN MORE IMPORTANT, in my humblest opinion, is the supposition that Sansa is not the only unreliable narrator in the book, so - What ELSE could be absolutely wrong that we're taking as right? Who else could have said something completely wrong, or what fact we believe is actually incorrect, because of "unreliable narration" ? To give an example, just making this up here so there is no question of authenticity etc- Say Ser Chivalrous Knight of House Homeboy states "A Faceless Man can swap faces as many times as he wants because he is a faceless man" - and we have all accepted that as the truth. Then down the road, Arya swaps her face for the 5th time, and drops dead as a doornail. AND WHY, we all ask?? Why did Arya drop dead as a doornail? OH BECAUSE, we come to find out, In fact a Faceless Man can only swap their face 4 times before suffering a Fatal Fifth. BUT...But....but.....Ser Chivalrous said..... and he's from House Homeboy!!! THEY KNOW their faceless men and they're chivalrous so they don't lie!!!!! "Ser Chivalrous is an unreliable narrator." Entire premise of important fact changed! Story has changed! Big freaking deal IMHO! All that risk is removed by having a flashback scene, because we're seeing what actually happened. Rather than having someone like Littlefinger tell us a story, we get to actually flash back and see what happened. And also, it would be cool. Especially if we get to see a young Ned played by Sean Bean , an awesome actor (I am pulling for McShane but I know it's not what he's there for) playing Howland Reed, fighting against Oswell Whent (Jason Statham), Gerold The Bull Hightower (Vinnie Jones), and Arthur Dayne (Philip Winchester) .... oh yeah baby. On your first point, indeed it was sarcastic as well as serious. On the rest, love your casting, though I'd prefer a slighter, younger man as Howland Reed, like a Jonas Armstrong type But the point is to show, not tell. The audience has an immersive experience, rather than just hearing dialog from people far removed from the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Much better than having Littlefinger telling Sansa all about Harrenhall in the catacombs. Actually him reminding Sansa of who she is pissed me off to no end, Sansa knows exactly who she is, the writers just want to make him her daddy figure. They could have let Sansa remind us who's daughter she is when she was alone overlooking Moat Calin. I know they do it to show he's a sleaze ball, but they should have let Sansa say that line, the crypt upset me but it sort of follows in a historical way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenezuelanLord Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Actually him reminding Sansa of who she is pissed me off to no end, Sansa knows exactly who she is, the writers just want to make him her daddy figure. They could have let Sansa remind us who's daughter she is when she was alone overlooking Moat Calin. I know they do it to show he's a sleaze ball, but they should have let Sansa say that line, the crypt upset me but it sort of follows in a historical way. well sansa is a child.. and needed a push, im sure she wont be needing LF counsel any time soon, i hope D&D do justice to sansa this season, since theres apparently only one northern lord being cast i hope she decides to be the rallying point of the north, and i want to see how she reacts when/if she finds Rickon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 02 That would be very interesting... 02 Jon VS Dany 02 Who would win? If Jon can rally Westeros, that is, could he defeat Dany? 02 02 From what we have seen of the Unsullied being killed by guys in robes with knives, I am guessing certainly the Armies of the Seven Kingdoms would destroy them. 02 02If She got some Dothraki, then she might have more of a chance, but Dothraki do not use bows, so I think they too, would suffer against men in armor. 02Mongols did well against men in armor but they used bows a lot. 02 02The dragons would help a lot, but Drogon was wounded bad in the arena, the Seven Kingdoms probably have ballistas too, which would hurt worse than spears. 02Jon is also the better commander, Dani is not a military expert and struggles to rule, let alone command an Army. 02 She does have one big thing helping her, she is alive and Jon's fate is in limbo right now. I dont know what books or show you are watching but everything you just said is wrong dothraki are known for their skills with bows unsullied's are slaughtered because they were ambushed ..let them fight in a battle they will do fine and the show runners needed the plot that way to make harpies a threat ..in the books it doesnt even happen and what exactly did jon command to make him better than dany ..how many battles did he command ..dany on the other hand had conquered three cities all on her own plan and command Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I was going to say, I am not so sure Dothraki don't use bows, isn't it one of things they use to pep up the newly-crippled Bran? The Dothraki learn how to shoot bows (accurately) on horseback at age 4, if they can do it, so can you, little Brandon. I just took it more of the fact that Dothraki are all about single combat slaughter and phalanx-formations of cavalry battles crushing armies like Genghis and his homey Kublai Khan... they just don't feel like sitting back sniping with bows, they want to see the look in your eyes as they remove the life from your empty shell of a body. Jon vs Dany, while I hope it never happens, would be the epic of all epic battles, the Battle of Ice vs Fire while the song blasts on the speakers, so I don't think it would come down to Dothraki or Unsullied vs Wildlings or Night's Watch archers.... it would come down to dragons and fire and white-walking Night's Kings and man-eating-man-a-cheetahs and all sorts of magic. I'm not saying, I'm just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 yes they used that line in the show i get amused by some of the idea of jon vs dany is u see .. dany fighting with jon against others is cliche and obvious ..but the same people get riled up when people come up with RLJ alternatives bcos they think its obvious and cliche but to jon vs dany to happen ..jon will be leading the others against dany but it will be dany who will be the villain in this concept all the previous fights jon had with others forgotten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 well sansa is a child.. and needed a push, im sure she wont be needing LF counsel any time soon, i hope D&D do justice to sansa this season, since theres apparently only one northern lord being cast i hope she decides to be the rallying point of the north, and i want to see how she reacts when/if she finds Rickon In show she's no child, in book she's 13 and to her self she rejects LF as her father with I'm the daughter of Eddard Stark.... in both she's has bleed, no it was lazy writing on the show runners part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam with one D Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 The HoTU scene has 3 Easter eggs: - blue stain glass window in the throne room - there's literally snow on the throne - and then Dany's at the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAzorAhai Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 In Dany's vision in the HoTU in the show, when she entered the throne room, directly in front of her, above the throne was a stained glass with a blue rose. Watch the videos on YT, and it's there. These hints won't be obvious until R+L=J is revealed and then everyone who's seen it would go, "Ohhhhhhh, so that's what it meant" or something like that. My point is, the show don't have to spell it out for viewers, they can leave clues here and there that looks entirely random but will make sense once the reveal is done. I dont disagree wigh most of what you said, but in my opinion that's the 7 point star with a blue center. I don't see a rose at all. I think that's kind of a reach. JMO, though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I agree that the GoT bosses can and do leave clues aka "easter eggs" to give hints and stuff like that, from the basic to the ultra-secretive and foreshadowing etc. Hints, clues, etc. I also agree that there might have been some "clues" or "easter eggs" in the Dany's HoTU visions, but I also thought that it was the religious symbol 7-star rather than a rose (above the throne.) I will say this- my own little take on the Throne Room in Winter scene is that it seems to be a bit of foreshadowing for the hulk that is burned out / war torn Winterfell ......but obviously that is just my own little bit of theory w/o much proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAzorAhai Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 So, I was just watching Hardhome and at the end of the episode D&D do their regular comments on that particular episode. But what caught my attention was when speaking of Sansa finding out about Rickon and Bran, they left out Jon from the Stark children - just like Ned in the book. Just another breadcrumb.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 So, I was just watching Hardhome and at the end of the episode D&D do their regular comments on that particular episode. But what caught my attention was when speaking of Sansa finding out about Rickon and Bran, they left out Jon from the Stark children - just like Ned in the book. Just another breadcrumb.. Maybe because she found out about him in the last episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 That would be very interesting... Jon VS Dany Who would win? If Jon can rally Westeros, that is, could he defeat Dany? From what we have seen of the Unsullied being killed by guys in robes with knives, I am guessing certainly the Armies of the Seven Kingdoms would destroy them. If She got some Dothraki, then she might have more of a chance, but Dothraki do not use bows, so I think they too, would suffer against men in armor. Mongols did well against men in armor but they used bows a lot. The dragons would help a lot, but Drogon was wounded bad in the arena, the Seven Kingdoms probably have ballistas too, which would hurt worse than spears. Jon is also the better commander, Dani is not a military expert and struggles to rule, let alone command an Army. She does have one big thing helping her, she is alive and Jon's fate is in limbo right now. I might not be remembering it correctly but; in show didn't Maester Luwin tells Bran the Dothraki's learn to shoot from horse back at the age of 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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