Toth Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Have we even disagreed? I don't think so. I might have missed to mention the additional parallel in that Sansa encourages him to embrace the little boy in his head again simply by showing him her strength without shedding her ideals the same way Brienne ecourages Jaime. So there is character development. Character development everywhere! And in the show it's just his vicious killer shell and nothing more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalsplit Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 The weird thing is, it just looks like a "hormons vs. socialization" debate I had shortly before. I had already found myself in a minority by stating that both are a thing, but I give socialization and education the edge because those take the mold of the human and shape it into the individual personality, while the genes only give very, very, very basic tendencies that can or cannot be overruled by conscious decisions. But people kept telling me I have to look at the statistics in everything (the thread was about differing taste in literature) and should assume that every majority I see was purely based on genetics, not on books parents throw at their children like I saw it (and were unwilling to accept that both theories could coexist without scientifical proof and we had none). Sorry for the slight off-topic thing. This thread has become something like a save haven to vent my frustration about debates like this. Back to the show... gods, I was recently thinking about that I still don't understand why they needed to butcher Sandor Clegane. His whole character and cynism centered around the fact, that -> knights <- are nothing more than glorified killers and this was just the idealistic little Sandor with his wooden toy knight speaking, who couldn't understand that his hideous monster of a brother of all people has become a knight and gets through with all the sick shit he does. Show!Sandor however was all about how fun killing people is and that all -> men <- are killers. And he doesn't even say this psychotic crap in a way that sounds he resents a world to be like this, instead it's painted as if he just wants to enlighten both Stark girls with his wisdom because the world actually is like that. So the Ds basically butchered Sandor to make him their own speaker to tell the audience how brutal Westeros is. Wow. We would never have guessed that one without Sandor telling us. Yeah, but what's now with the hypocrisy of chivalry? Oh, Sandor doesn't care about that. Fine... -.- Here's the video I have come upon yesterday that you might find helpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qndga6SNU Which is of course very relevant to the show and D&D's mindset as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalsplit Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Double post :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Have we even disagreed? I don't think so. I might have missed to mention the additional parallel in that Sansa encourages him to embrace the little boy in his head again simply by showing him her strength without shedding her ideals the same way Brienne ecourages Jaime. So there is character development. Character development everywhere! And in the show it's just his vicious killer shell and nothing more... I agree that they showed that side of him too much. And this is mostly to Rory's credit, but I think we saw his softer side, too. I am not a fan of the show, nor the way they portray any of the characters, but I can sort of pretend it's him, that's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I agree that they showed that side of him too much. And this is mostly to Rory's credit, but I think we saw his softer side, too. I am not a fan of the show, nor the way they portray any of the characters, but I can sort of pretend it's him, that's all I'm saying. Yeah, but it's awful that we have to rely on the actors to salvage their scripts. I also very much liked how Stephen Dillane tried to show Stannis struggling with each difficult decision or his displeasure about many of his acts simply through his facial expressions, despite his script reading basically "religious fanatic nonsense, bla, bla, being the bitch of Melisandre, bla, bla... sacrifice daughter for ambition, bla...". Graaargh... @Primalsplit: Damn, I can scrap my essay now, that's basically in a nutshell what I was trying to tell... only shorter. I pretty much drowned mine in examples where I carefully explained how society and plot shaped this character or that one and how another one is simply used like a tool or a cardboard cut-out of what the author thinks a 'strong' woman should be like without heed for the background. Well, at least I get some kind of discussion out of it... Thanks for the link, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Yeah, but it's awful that we have to rely on the actors to salvage their scripts. I also very much liked how Stephen Dillane tried to show Stannis struggling with each difficult decision or his displeasure about many of his acts simply through his facial expressions, despite his script reading basically "religious fanatic nonsense, bla, bla, being the bitch of Melisandre, bla, bla... sacrifice daughter for ambition, bla...". Graaargh... That's very true. And Dillane did a good job of that. Also NCW with Jaime, until it was impossible (now that he's Larry, it's like Mickey Mouse playing Donald Duck). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 They should call it Male Gaze of Thrones. Here's an audition:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Edouard_Manet_-_Luncheon_on_the_Grass_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg 'Male Gaze of Thrones' well put! And for the link... :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 The revelatioins of how most women are interviewed and screened to be on the show and ofcourse the show itself over the years just adds more evidence that the show runners are very mysogonistic and have a very derogatory view of women I think they have a certain and disturbing fetish for Sophie and Sansa's character portrayed by her). There can be no other answer. I really hope Sophie and Maise are keeping their rumored No-nudity clauses Iron Clad because if they could, there is no doubt the writers and runners would have them in the buff. Sophie practically was last year in ep 7 which, thanks to Chebs and those powerful essays, skillfully reminded us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Well, no one told him not to interfere or was there one? Of course there is honor in him, I have already imagined it above as that little boy with the toy knight in his head who both feels very drawn to Sansa because of the similar mindset and feels the need to stop his brother's atrocities when he happens to witness them. I was just saying that his defensive mechanism didn't do him so much good when it comes to his actions and the consciousness he needs to drown in alcohol. Repeatedly. It was Sandor, not the Hound, who chose to defend Loras from Gregor. This became a very dangerous fight for him as Gregor was enraged and a fair fight does not matter to the Mountain. Sandor however, fought honorably and did not press the advantage of Gregor fighting without a helmet. The Hound obeys but Sandor fights fair. One of the subtleties of the character. In the show, after the fight when Loras grabs Sandor's hand and lifts it up, his face shows this. The first season didn't get everything, right, but they did a good job on some things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 In the show, after the fight when Loras grabs Sandor's hand and lifts it up, his face shows this. The first season didn't get everything, right, but they did a good job on some things. And oddly enough, it was the season that most closely tracked the source material! The fanboys don't seem to get it. I don't know why ... except maybe they think more boobs and explosions and tossing menacing women off walls is fun and understanding the mechanisms of good governance and morality is difficult. I mean, seven hells, couldn't SANSA have been the one to throw Fauxranda off the wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 In the show, after the fight when Loras grabs Sandor's hand and lifts it up, his face shows this. The first season didn't get everything, right, but they did a good job on some things. He's looking at Sansa, too, at first, when he nods. The viewer is disoriented because the camera crossed the line (the 180 degree rule). http://rollo.co.vu/post/101187863524/every-sansan-scene-315 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 ~~~snip~~~ I mean, seven hells, couldn't SANSA have been the one to throw Fauxranda off the wall? Sansa? Who is this Sansa of whom you speak? :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Sansa? Who is this Sansa of whom you speak? :dunno: I'm not sure. I think I might have read about her once in a series of novels known as "ASOIAF". At any rate, is she a character on GOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I'm not sure. I think I might have read about her once in a series of novels known as "ASOIAF". At any rate, is she a character on GOT? I think she was, maybe, ummmm, well, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Sansa left the building, sometime in season 2. Maybe she will make a Vegas comeback in a sparkly jumpsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Sansa left the building, sometime in season 2. Maybe she will make a Vegas comeback in a sparkly jumpsuit. Here's a Vegas showgirl in an interpretation of Sansa's fug 'empowered' dress. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcsO6JvkvgU That starts at about 1:25 :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Sansa left the building, sometime in season 2. Maybe she will make a Vegas comeback in a sparkly jumpsuit. Does this mean I have more of a chance of seeing Sansa while playing blackjack in Vegas than seeing her on GOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Does this mean I have more of a chance of seeing Sansa while playing blackjack in Vegas than seeing her on GOT? Bet on it! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Here's a Vegas showgirl in an interpretation of Sansa's fug 'empowered' dress. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcsO6JvkvgU That starts at about 1:25 :lol: Perfect! :lol: Hopefully Myranda cut the fug dress to ribbons in a jealous snit, as girls do. And why couldn't she use mini Needle to pick the lock, the one moment of the entire season she was not passive (but almost, the corkscrew was right there, while she was goading a psycho). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcsO6JvkvgU That starts at about 1:25 :lol: Perfect. I could see D & D changing the story so that Sansa is working at Cheetahs or the Olympic Garden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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