Who caused the most trouble for everyone else?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1) A diabolical guy who likes burning people us replaced by a leader loved by the smallfolk and most of the realm. And the realm can finally work out what the hell happened with Lyanna. If it's justified, it's justified, if it's not, he's got SE and the support of many powerful lords.~Let me guess you haven't read the books right?

2) His own brother, his best friend and whoever else Stannis and Ned get as witnesses versus the traitorous Lannisters. Even if he's not believed, Robert can't kill them.~Robert wouldn't had believed Stannis only Ned. Why Ned didn't told him that?

3) Melisandre, Catelyn and Brienne back it up. And what exactly are you calling Bs?~I am calling bs the notion that Stannis is to blame for what Med did with his seed. Also how the eff Cat and Brienne know what he did with Mel? They were in the room with Mel?

4) Davos was going to send scouts. Scouts that would see the chain and maybe see the wildfire or get blown up by it.~Boohoo and if it wasn't for Stannis the IBorns would had won.

5) Because Melisandre, Shireen and the Queens men wouldn't be at CB, using their food and resources, but with Stannis. No matter who sent it, they'd know this.~This is ridiculous. Stannis SAVED the Wall and Westeros.

6) Stannis is meant to be the king. Are you saying that he can't stop Melisandre burning the cannibals and Lord Sunglass? Are you saying that Stannis didn't try to burn Edric?~He wasn't there when Sunglass were burnt. Is he to blame for things that happened when he wasn't there?  No he didn't tried to burn him, he was considering the possibility. There is a huge difference between thinking and actually trying.

 

 

Again I can understand hating someone but at least try to build a reasonable case and not just fanfictional comments with no meaning.

[HappilyEverAfter]

We dont know about it so we cant discuss it, but Stannis Dragonstone bannermen probably had more experience than Davos at commanding a fleet, so saying that Davos was the best option is bullshit

Why didn't they command the fleet then?

1) A diabolical guy who likes burning people us replaced by a leader loved by the smallfolk and most of the realm. And the realm can finally work out what the hell happened with Lyanna. If it's justified, it's justified, if it's not, he's got SE and the support of many powerful lords.~Let me guess you haven't read the books right?

2) His own brother, his best friend and whoever else Stannis and Ned get as witnesses versus the traitorous Lannisters. Even if he's not believed, Robert can't kill them.~Robert wouldn't had believed Stannis only Ned. Why Ned didn't told him that?

3) Melisandre, Catelyn and Brienne back it up. And what exactly are you calling Bs?~I am calling bs the notion that Stannis is to blame for what Med did with his seed. Also how the eff Cat and Brienne know what he did with Mel? They were in the room with Mel?

4) Davos was going to send scouts. Scouts that would see the chain and maybe see the wildfire or get blown up by it.~Boohoo and if it wasn't for Stannis the IBorns would had won.

5) Because Melisandre, Shireen and the Queens men wouldn't be at CB, using their food and resources, but with Stannis. No matter who sent it, they'd know this.~This is ridiculous. Stannis SAVED the Wall and Westeros.

6) Stannis is meant to be the king. Are you saying that he can't stop Melisandre burning the cannibals and Lord Sunglass? Are you saying that Stannis didn't try to burn Edric?~He wasn't there when Sunglass were burnt. Is he to blame for things that happened when he wasn't there?  No he didn't tried to burn him, he was considering the possibility. There is a huge difference between thinking and actually trying.
 
 
Again I can understand hating someone but at least try to build a reasonable case and not just fanfictional comments with no meaning.

1) You need to improve your guesswork. You'd fail a game show.

2) He was dying. You know, after Stannis and Jon worked out the truth, had their circumstantial evidence, then Jon was poisoned. So Stannis decided to run to Dragonstone and leave Robert to the lions. Like every good brother does.

3) What he never asked her how Penrose and Renly died? He didn't have dreams he was killing his brother (which suggests he could control it)? He didn't start feeling guilty once he realised his dream fantasy turned real?

4) Right, Boohoo. Astounding argument. And this is assuming Stannis gets this far. But even then, he had Redwyne helping him who maybe could have done the same thing. A Velaryon maybe. Or anybody else who had the skills Stannis learnt in Storm's End.

5) Right. because it's his duty. It's also his duty to respect the neutrality of the NW.

6) Stannis was getting ready to burn Edric when Davos came because Joffrey had died. Melisandre burnt someone to give Saan's fleet good winds. He burnt the starving cannibals. He didn't punish Selyse (his wife who he is responsible for) when she burnt Lord Sunglass.

[Seralei]

A bit of a mix.

 

Cersei and Jaime are huge contenders here. Had they been found out or revealed the parentage, the Lannisters would probably have been eradicated or, at the very least, shot far down the totem pole of houses. Robert would probably still be alive and I'm assuming the Tyrells would try and make a move.

 

 

Catelyn is also a prime one. Had she left Tyrion alone, or not seen him, the Lannisters wouldn't have attacked the Riverlands. Although this whole thing sets up LS anyway and I firmly believe that LS has some key role to play. Why bring her back and just kill a few people? It was an awesome twist, but I don't see him doin it for the sake of having her there.

 

The final person for me is Nedd. He should have never told Cersei that he knew about her and Jaime.

 

 

 

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

Jon, because his conduct at the wall caused disarray when the watch should be preparing for the Others.  Jon fractured the defense when he engaged in a clandestine operation to free fArya from her marriage. 

[Stannis broatheon]

Why didn't they command the fleet then?


1) You need to improve your guesswork. You'd fail a game show.

2) He was dying. You know, after Stannis and Jon worked out the truth, had their circumstantial evidence, then Jon was poisoned. So Stannis decided to run to Dragonstone and leave Robert to the lions. Like every good brother does.

3) What he never asked her how Penrose and Renly died? He didn't have dreams he was killing his brother (which suggests he could control it)? He didn't start feeling guilty once he realised his dream fantasy turned real?

4) Right, Boohoo. Astounding argument. And this is assuming Stannis gets this far. But even then, he had Redwyne helping him who maybe could have done the same thing. A Velaryon maybe. Or anybody else who had the skills Stannis learnt in Storm's End.

5) Right. because if his duty. It's also his duty to respect the neutrality of the NW.

6) Stannis was getting ready to burn Edric when Davos came because Joffrey had died. Melisandre burnt someone to give Saan's fleet good winds. He burnt the starving cannibals. He didn't punish Selyse (his wife who he is responsible for) when she burnt Lord Sunglass.

We dont know if Imry had experience, he may have it. But you said that he should have name Davos when it is clear that he has sealords as banners

[Stannis broatheon]

Jon, because his conduct at the wall caused disarray when the watch should be preparing for the Others.  Jon fractured the defense when he engaged in a clandestine operation to free fArya from her marriage. 

Are you to steel?

[HappilyEverAfter]

We dont know if Imry had experience, he may have it. But you said that he should have name Davos when it is clear that he has sealords as banners

Davos also has no experience in court yet he's made Hand of the King. Stannis doesn't seem to care about experience all that much, he seems values wits more.

And even if Stannis does care aboat experience, why didn't he name these sealords who have experience at being admirals? They would've probably sent scouts too, it doesn't take a genius to do so.

[Grail King]

LF and Lysa Arryn, it was somewhat peaceful after RR, until the death of Rob Arryn, this moved the King to go north,caused the conflict between Stark and Lannister by way of a dubious letter to Caitlyn, placed Cersei and Jaime IN THE TOWER, which forced Jamie to push Bran out the window, placed Joffry to believe "mercy" was a good thing to give Bran, made the move of Ned and crew to leave WF and his eventual death, and the lie by LF to Cat to wrongly take Tyrion, which caused Tywin , Loed Frey and Boltons to eliminate most of the north.

[Stannis broatheon]

Davos also has no experience in court yet he's made Hand of the King. Stannis doesn't seem to care about experience all that much, he seems values wits more.

And even if Stannis does care aboat experience, why didn't he name these sealords who have experience at being admirals? They would've probably sent scouts too, it doesn't take a genius to do so.

Hand= advisor. Stannis trust Davos as an advisor.

[LaughingStormBaratheon]

Come on we all know that if you aren't acting in stannis' best interests with knowledge you can't possibly have you deserve a painful death.

Why do you two butthurts love trying to start fights about stannis in every thread he's mentioned? Keep it in your pants for once.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

GRRM.

[LaughingStormBaratheon]

1) A diabolical guy who likes burning people us replaced by a leader loved by the smallfolk and most of the realm. And the realm can finally work out what the hell happened with Lyanna. If it's justified, it's justified, if it's not, he's got SE and the support of many powerful lords.

2) His own brother, his best friend and whoever else Stannis and Ned get as witnesses versus the traitorous Lannisters. Even if he's not believed, Robert can't kill them.

3) Melisandre, Catelyn and Brienne back it up. And what exactly are you calling Bs?

4) Davos was going to send scouts. Scouts that would see the chain and maybe see the wildfire or get blown up by it.

5) Because Melisandre, Shireen and the Queens men wouldn't be at CB, using their food and resources, but with Stannis. No matter who sent it, they'd know this.

6) Stannis is meant to be the king. Are you saying that he can't stop Melisandre burning the cannibals and Lord Sunglass? Are you saying that Stannis didn't try to burn Edric?

The fact that you think stannis liked burning people shows how much you love your biased ignorance. Have you even read the books?

[HappilyEverAfter]

The fact that you think stannis liked burning people shows how much you love your biased ignorance. Have you even read the books?

I'm not saying Stannis likes burning people, I'm just saying he does.

The 1) is in reference to Aerys.

[LaughingStormBaratheon]

I'm not saying Stannis likes burning people, I'm just saying he does.

The 1) is in reference to Aerys.

Yeah sure bud.

[HappilyEverAfter]

Yeah sure bud.

Okay????????????

[LaughingStormBaratheon]

Okay????????????

No veiled references in your post about how stannis is the worst and multiple times caused the most anguish in the series... Because he wouldn't yield storms end?

Yeah, suuuure bud.

[HappilyEverAfter]

No veiled references in your post about how stannis is the worst and multiple times caused the most anguish in the series... Because he wouldn't yield storms end?

Yeah, suuuure bud.

Erm, this is the original portion of the post you seem to have a problem with

Stannis Baratheon - If he'd given up Storm's End then RR would have failed and Rhaegar could overthrow Aerys with the Lannisters becoming less important.

[LordStoneheart]

Catelyn without a doubt. While ill agree little finger caused alot of crap to go down. It's catelyn that made him the man he is she teased and used him as a kid. He fought a duel nilly died and she didn't even go see him. She convinced ned to trust him.. got him killed and all his men...


She released jaimee lost rob the kastarks then they went on a killing spree in the riverlands..

She captured tryrion. Basically started the whole war.

Then there's how she had to stay with rob. He needed her im sorry i didn't know she was such a good milatary commander. Im sure her 4yr old son rickon didn't need a mum....

If you hadn't noticed i hate cat with a passion and shes only gotten worse as stoneheart she split the BWB.

Bad trolling or just idiocy? Sometimes it's hard to tell.

If you'd actually bothered to read the books, you may remember that Catelyn was never bad to LF. She, him, and Lysa were good friends. It is only when LF decided to go against custom and challenge Brandon that there was any sort of contention. And that was not her fault. She did not make LF fall in love with her. She did not make him think that was an okay reaction. She did not make him think he could duel a Lord. The LF spurned by Cat argument against her is sexist bullshit.

[Stannis broatheon]

Bad trolling or just idiocy? Sometimes it's hard to tell.

If you'd actually bothered to read the books, you may remember that Catelyn was never bad to LF. She, him, and Lysa were good friends. It is only when LF decided to go against custom and challenge Brandon that there was any sort of contention. And that was not her fault. She did not make LF fall in love with her. She did not make him think that was an okay reaction. She did not make him think he could duel a Lord. The LF spurned by Cat argument against her is sexist bullshit.

You could argue that LF is alive because of Cat convincing Brandom to spare his life.

[LordStoneheart]

You could argue that LF is alive because of Cat convincing Brandom to spare his life.

And that argument wouldn't hold, because that's not a "cause." LF could have done many things with his life after his time in RR, but he decided to screw the country over because of his own hurt ego.