Hugorfonics Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 And you think the charlie foxtrot that was Ned's attempt to install himself as LP was intentional? LOL. No. The buck hardly stops with Sansa. Now I don't understand you. What's a foxtrot? Ned never was lp. Robert made him lp of Stannis or Gendry or something confusing like that. -Ned went south because he accepted Robert's offer of becoming Hand of the King. -Ned and Cersie had issues before the Trident incident, namely Lyanna being his sister & Ned's distain for Lannisters & Lannisters distain for Starks. -Cersei caught Ned unprepared because LF had the gold cloaks turn on him. -Sansa told Cercie of Ned's plans which prevented her & Arya from leaving KL. That was Sansa's mistake. It hardly constitutes her being the major cause (intentionally or not) of the misery of Westeros. -Ned was prepared to say no to Hand. Sansa is why Ned went south. -True, tensions were high, but the first confrontation was around Sansas false testimony - (Goldcloaks work for the king. Ned should have told Janos to do his duty, not bribe him) Cersei ordered the death of Robert because Sansa confessed to Cersei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 If you are going that route then let's all blame Bran for climbing towers and getting push out because he saw what he wasn't supposed to.;) Who says I dont? :P "Bran would not spy." "Then blame those precious gods of yours, who brought the boy to our window and gave him a glimpse of something he was never meant to see." But the fact remains, Sansa has influenced Westeros more then Bran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 -Ned was prepared to say no to Hand. Sansa is why Ned went south. How is that Sansa's responsibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Now I don't understand you. What's a foxtrot? Ned never was lp. Robert made him lp of Stannis or Gendry or something confusing like that. It means cluster fuck. Robert appointed Ned as Lord Protector in his will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 How is that Sansa's responsibility? It's not. She's just the effect, or I guess cause... it all depends where your looking at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 It's not. She's just the effect, or I guess cause... it all depends where your looking at it :dunno: with that in mind, is Joffrey's fault for being born a male who needed to procreate to carry on the family line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 It means cluster fuck. Robert appointed Ned as Lord Protector in his will. ah cool. Well he tried to, let's call it Ned's bad penmanship; What does this have to do with Sansa not influencing Westeros politics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 :dunno: with that in mind, is Joffrey's fault for being born a male who needed to procreate to carry on the family line. I was going to suggest Rickard Stark for arranging the marriage to the Tullys, which produced Sansa, evidently the greatest calamity that ever hit Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I was going to suggest Rickard Stark for arranging the marriage to the Tully's, which produced Sansa, evidently the greatest calamity that ever hit Westeros. I propose the next asteroid NASA finds is named "Sansa". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 -Ned was prepared to say no to Hand. Sansa is why Ned went south. -True, tensions were high, but the first confrontation was around Sansas false testimony - (Goldcloaks work for the king. Ned should have told Janos to do his duty, not bribe him) Cersei ordered the death of Robert because Sansa confessed to Cersei -I don't know where you get that idea but it's simply not the case. Robert & Catelyn were insistent he accept the Hand position. I Sansa were the reason, Ned could have simply sent her with the Royal train back to KL. -Tentions would have escalated regardless of Sansa or ARYA's actions at the Trident. -Cersei was working on killing Robert long before the Starks went to KL. She would have succeeded anyway. Nothing Sansa did had any "butterfly effect" that wouldn't have happened anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 ah cool. Well he tried to, let's call it Ned's bad penmanship; What does this have to do with Sansa not influencing Westeros politics? Because several things were set in motion that were not Sansa's doing. Had Ned been a better planner, things wouldn't have gone down the shitter for him. Unless you know, you think Sansa is so dangerous she's worth about 10,000 troops or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I propose the next asteroid NASA finds is named "Sansa". Well, let's remember there would have been no Sansa if their hadn't been a marriage to the Tullys by the Starks. Of course, the marriage to the Tullys probably would have never occured if Aegon I hadn't conquered the RL and installed the Tullys as rulers there. Then, again, Aegon I would have never conquered the RL unless Daenys the Dreamer had persuaded her father to move the family to Dragonstone. Accordingly, I think the War of The Five Kings is Daenys fault. And so was Ned's execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 :dunno: with that in mind, is Joffrey's fault for being born a male who needed to procreate to carry on the family line. That's kinda extreme, if Joff was a girl he would no longer be Joff. Joffrey certainly created a lot of trouble (though Sansas actions crowned and killed him)I was going to suggest Rickard Stark for arranging the marriage to the Tullys, which produced Sansa, evidently the greatest calamity that ever hit Westeros. Or at least since Jon Arryns death I propose the next asteroid NASA finds is named "Sansa". Second!-I don't know where you get that idea but it's simply not the case. Robert & Catelyn were insistent he accept the Hand position. I Sansa were the reason, Ned could have simply sent her with the Royal train back to KL. -Tentions would have escalated regardless of Sansa or ARYA's actions at the Trident. -Cersei was working on killing Robert long before the Starks went to KL. She would have succeeded anyway. Nothing Sansa did had any "butterfly effect" that wouldn't have happened anyway. I doubt Robert cared little about the marriage. Ned left court because of Aegons murder, in order to bring him back the bait had to be big. It's all from Eddard I If Sansa didn't get all scared and want a walk with Joff they wouldn't have found Arya, already a few days into practicing Planning a murder isn't the same thing as doing it. Cersei wanted Renly and Stannis gone first.Because several things were set in motion that were not Sansa's doing. Had Ned been a better planner, things wouldn't have gone down the shitter for him. Unless you know, you think Sansa is so dangerous she's worth about 10,000 troops or something. I do. She's the blood of Winterfell :D No doubt, Sansa had 0 influence on Stannis or Danys campaign. However she had much on Tywins Robbs, and subsequently Balon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Accordingly, I think the War of The Five Kings Is Daenys fault. And so was Ned's execution. No. It was her father's fault. In a way, also her mother. And considering they're Targaryens, and noble, it's their parents's fault for making them marry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrioforelseesforreal Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Religion and aristocracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Intentionally and knowing full well their actions would lead to dire consequences -- LF, and the messed up Lannister twins. Unintentionally -- I'd have to say the Tully sisters, Cat and Lysa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 How can you ask that question and say but dont count the moast blindingly obvious example? Thats a loaded question if ever i saw one lol. It was tho he schemes with tywin and walder. Seald his own alliance to the freys with a marrage. Re released jaimee. Scattered the better half of the army rob gave him keeping all his own men safe. They had rob surrounded. Roose took advantage of the situation that was before him. I'm not saying i like what he did.im saying it was downrite appalling. But he played his cards pritty well when you realy look at it. I know now im not gunna sway your opinion. I need a cat bashing thread anyone got any links. Back on topic fat aegon caused ALOT of trouble for the whole kingdom also 1 Cat did not make any military decissuon that was Robb, so how could she know that Roose was plotting qith the Freys and the Lannisters? She is not a reader like you, and did have little information about Robb's military actions.The Red wedding was not Roose outplaying Cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain howdy Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 1 Cat did not make any military decissuon that was Robb, so how could she know that Roose was plotting qith the Freys and the Lannisters? She is not a reader like you, and did have little information about Robb's military actions.The Red wedding was not Roose outplaying Cat. Of course she didn't know what roose was plotting it was a plot..... if she knew what he was planing there wouldn't have been a red wedding. What dou you think people play and win the game of thrones by telling the other players. I'm doing this shhhhh don't tell anyone but see if you can out plot and play this moove. Please she was out played plain and simple. It was a dog moove and cat was far to honorable to expect anything like it. Your king is trapped check and mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Of course she didn't know what roose was plotting it was a plot..... if she knew what he was planing there wouldn't have been a red wedding. What dou you think people play and win the game of thrones by telling the other players. I'm doing this shhhhh don't tell anyone but see if you can out plot and play this moove. Please she was out played plain and simple. It was a dog moove and cat was far to honorable to expect anything like it. Your king is trapped check and mate. How could Cat know anything about Roose? Robb gave him too much power and indepence.She does not have little birds like Varys. Saying that Roose outsmarted Cat is just pure hate. Sorry but your arguments are stupid and your answer quite childish. Using your logic, Tyrion is a fool because the purple wedding or Cercei is a genius because she beat Ned oe that Doran is a mad genius beacuse Tywin is death. Roose beat the Starks at politics, but it was not Cat who was beatten it was Robb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 2 that came to mind quickly were Cat and Theon. But you really can't quantify this question too easily. I mean a whole slew of characters have had a hand in the mess that is Westeros. I cant forget Walder Frey or so many others, also Viserys idioacy trying to gain a crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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