Le Cygne Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I still haven't watched much of it, just listened or looked at transcripts. Not enough brain bleach in the world. Still, everyone talking about the Sand Fakes made me curious, so I finally watched. Truly sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I don't think I have the courage to watch season 5 again.It's actually less grating in the reruns because you have zero expectation. Some things still really stuck out to me, like how totally over the top the evil Faith music was, and I will never, ever, never get over 'half our troops deserted and took ALL the horses' and 1 minute later, Mel just rode out of camp or how awful the lighting was for the Stannis stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bong of Ice and Fire Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 On the season 5 rewatch, I found the actual wedding night scene was much less problematic than everything that led up to it....it would have been much more at least interesting if Sansa had developed a strategy to deal with Ramsay, e.g. she goes into things with an idea she can manage it, and we see her try one or more ways to bring Ramsay around, and then at the end, we see that she failed inevitably because Ramsay is too bad shit crazy to be managed. But we can recognize she had some kind of plan and sense of how to accomplish her goal.That at least would have given Sansa some level of 'empowerment'. Instead she does nothing but talk smack a few times here and there but there is no rhyme or reason behind it. She doesn't ever try to charm Ramsay. Or even persuade him through conversation that it would be a better thing for the North if their marriage was at least 'okay'....she odes nothing except for ask for help from Theon and get victimized more than once.And maybe it stuck out to me because I happened to see the episodes so close together but LF telling her she's run from trouble all her life....only to have Winterfell story end with her and Theon running for their lives....kind of emblematic of the total lack of care taken with what to do with Sansa @ Winterfell. Why woud Sansa be "empowered"? She's been a pawn and prisoner her whole life - first to her songs/delusions, then to Cersei & Joffrey, then to Littlefinger, then to the Boltons. Even in the books she's still completely under Littlefinger's control. Maybe a bit later in her story arc we'll see her get "empowered". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Why woud Sansa be "empowered"? She's been a pawn and prisoner her whole life - first to her songs/delusions, then to Cersei & Joffrey, then to Littlefinger, then to the Boltons. Even in the books she's still completely under Littlefinger's control. Maybe a bit later in her story arc we'll see her get "empowered".She would be 'empowered' because that is what Dan and Dave about her Season 5 story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Quoting Ran:The topic of the thread is discussing things you disliked about the episode. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if he normal rules of the forum do not apply. Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand -- this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bong of Ice and Fire Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 She would be 'empowered' because that is what Dan and Dave about her Season 5 story.Maybe her escape with Theon will be the start of her empowerment storyline that her fans seem to want so much. Personally I've never liked Sansa, since she betrayed her father to Cersei in AGoT. Would you have liked Season 5 better if they left Sansa in the Eyrie and introduced the whole Jeyne/fake Arya storyline? I can understand why D&D used Sansa instead for that storyline. They needed to use the actress and character in a meaningful way, not just park her for a year in the Eyrie. Plus why introduce unnecessarily complex side-storylines into a show that only has 10 episodes per season to tell a massive story. Sansa may still become "empowered" later. It reminds me of how many people here screamed that Arya's story was butchered in season 2 because she didn't become a psycho killer at Harrenhal. D&D just saved Arya's transformation until after the Red Wedding. It all worked out in the end. People are too quick to criticize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Maybe her escape with Theon will be the start of her empowerment storyline that her fans seem to want so much. Personally I've never liked Sansa, since she betrayed her father to Cersei in AGoT. Would you have liked Season 5 better if they left Sansa in the Eyrie and introduced the whole Jeyne/fake Arya storyline? I can understand why D&D used Sansa instead for that storyline. They needed to use the actress and character in a meaningful way. She may still become "empowered" later. It reminds me of how many people here screamed that Arya's story was butchered in season 2 because he didn't become a psycho killer at Harrenhal. D&D just saved Arya's transformation until after the Red Wedding. It all worked out in the end. People are too quick to criticize.This isn't what was said about Season 5. What was said was that Season 5 Sansa was going to be in control and turning the tables on her captors, much different than when she was a captive in King's Landing. That she was empowered in Season 5, not Season 6.There are many things they could have done with Sansa other than what they did, and I question why they needed to use the actress in a meaningful way since Bran and Rickon did not even appear in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I don't think I have the courage to watch season 5 again.I'm thinking about it, because I'm a hardened man making a choice. And since torturing myself is the only way I'll get empowered, it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I'm thinking about it, because I'm a hardened man making a choice. And since torturing myself is the only way I'll get empowered, it makes sense.And your reward, mustn't forget that. Although it may be rather empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bong of Ice and Fire Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I liked Season 5 more than most on here, but one thing I disliked goes back to the first episode. I didn't like the reduction of Varys's and Illyrio's motives for supporting Dany just because they thought Robert was a bad king and Westeros needs saving by heroic Dany. That's too simplistic and idealistic a motive for a great gray character like Varys.In the books it is implied that Varys and Illyrio are long-time Blackfyre loyalists. (I am assuming Aegon is Illyrio's son by his Blackfyre wife.) Dany is just a pawn to them that they can use to grant power and legitimacy to Aegon. In the show Varys is just some idealistic "for the realm" guy who wants Dany in power because it will benefit the people. I'm not buying that motivation.Maybe Season 6 will introduce the Blackfyre storyline and give more depth to Varys's motivations. We'll see. For now I'm not buying into what Varys sold to Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I wouldn't count on any Blackfyre angle in the show. We didn't even see Illyrio at all in Season 5.Nor would I count on any additional twists from Varys. On the show, people are what they appear to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I still haven't watched much of it, just listened or looked at transcripts. Not enough brain bleach in the world. Still, everyone talking about the Sand Fakes made me curious, so I finally watched. Truly sorry...You know I never even heard of GOT until after the third season was over. I then binged watched the shows, really liked it, and then read the books. Season 4 was a bit disappointing after reading the books, but not too bad I suppose. And season 5 was a bummer.If things don't improve this upcoming season, I really just need to cancel my HBO subscription, since GOT is the only reason I have HBO anyway.Well, I say that, but I probably won't. I'll probably watch season 6, be disappointed, then hold out hope that season 7 will get better.I think I might need a GOT intervention. And I thought quitting sniffing glue was going to be hard. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morvius Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Maybe her escape with Theon will be the start of her empowerment storyline that her fans seem to want so much. Personally I've never liked Sansa, since she betrayed her father to Cersei in AGoT. Would you have liked Season 5 better if they left Sansa in the Eyrie and introduced the whole Jeyne/fake Arya storyline? I can understand why D&D used Sansa instead for that storyline. They needed to use the actress and character in a meaningful way, not just park her for a year in the Eyrie. Plus why introduce unnecessarily complex side-storylines into a show that only has 10 episodes per season to tell a massive story. Sansa may still become "empowered" later. It reminds me of how many people here screamed that Arya's story was butchered in season 2 because she didn't become a psycho killer at Harrenhal. D&D just saved Arya's transformation until after the Red Wedding. It all worked out in the end. People are too quick to criticize.Instead, they opted to completely butcher the Vale storyline. Ignoring the fact that they diverged from the books (which is fine as long as they tell a good story), the Vale Lords completely submitting to Littlefinger made no sense at all. Littlefinger is of low birth. His hold on the Vale came from his marriage to Lysa Arryn who just took a little tumble. They can't just expect me to believe that the Vale is perfectly fine with this upstart becoming the Warden of the East (doubt anyone believes that little Arryn is capable of ruling). Littlefinger even gloriously gives up Robin Arryn, HIS hold on the Vale. The Vale IS meaningful (considering it still has a strong army untouched by war) and the book shows us the politicking going on in the Vale through the eyes of Sansa Stark (fine - if they really wanted to send Sansa off on her merry way, they should have done it without ignoring the Vale's politics). If you say the Vale's politics is not meaningful then I find that rather odd considering politics is the lifeblood of the show. You may argue that there isn't enough material in the books to support the Vale storyline but that doesn't stop them from making their own stories right (Dorne, "Where are my Dwagons", Hardhome)? But given the level of the writers...I doubt they could seriously attempt new content. Especially those associated with politics.My issues with the show (and this is shared by many on this thread) is that, ignoring the books, the writing on the show now is not good. And no. Telling me that George isn't the most elegant of writers is not going to change that. Sometimes I dream about the writers of The Wire writing Game of Thrones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 And your reward, mustn't forget that. Although it may be rather empty.So like your saying a renewed appreciation for St. Tyrion isn't much of a reward? No way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 You know I never even heard of GOT until after the third season was over. I then binged watched the shows, really liked it, and then read the books. Season 4 was a bit disappointing after reading the books, but not too bad I suppose. And season 5 was a bummer.If things don't improve this upcoming season, I really just need to cancel my HBO subscription, since GOT is the only reason I have HBO anyway.Well, I say that, but I probably won't. I'll probably watch season 6, be disappointed, then hold out hope that season 7 will get better.I think I might need a GOT intervention. And I thought quitting sniffing glue was going to be hard. LOL.I read the books first, and for me it went south in season 2. The whitewashing of Cersei started to get really bad then, although there were hints of that in the first season, with the forgotten baby with the black hair. They kept pinning everything on Joffrey instead. And there were other signs, too. Other characters and stories changed. Then that got so much worse in season 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I read the books first, and for me it went south in season 2. The whitewashing of Cersei started to get really bad then, although there were hints of that in the first season, with the forgotten baby with the black hair. They kept pinning everything on Joffrey instead. And there were other signs, too. Other characters and stories changed. Then that got so much worse in season 3. Yeah, I think if I had read the books first, I would have felt the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Yeah, I think if I had read the books first, I would have felt the same way.Also, I have no hope, I am down to a couple of things I wanted to see, and I doubt they will happen on the show, perhaps just an afterthought, or a moment or two, when all the important nonsense has played out. I was just in it for spoilers, but the show isn't even good for that anymore, since everything is so different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 The best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them (up at the top, click on your name, on the resulting menu, click on "ignored users" and then go to the part of the resulting screen where you can add new users to ignore, and type their name in). Then don't read their stuff, and, eventually, they go away. The fanboys tend to be the worst, because they simply can't countenance a forum devoted to people disliking aspects of the show. Anyway, the worst way to deal with trolls is to engage them. To quote the great George Bernard Shaw: I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 So like your saying a renewed appreciation for St. Tyrion isn't much of a reward? No way!There's no story there, he's perfect. He could have become less than perfect. But there's no such thing as more perfect. It's not a story. It's just the gift that keeps on giving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I'm thinking about it, because I'm a hardened man making a choice. And since torturing myself is the only way I'll get empowered, it makes sense.Well, certainly show!Sansa is braver than I am. If LF had asked me to marry Ramsay I would be like,"You want me to do what? Have you lost your god damned mind?"So, I won't be watching season 5 or marrying Ramsay anytime soon, I don't think. No empowering moments for me. And I feel pretty good about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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