The Wolves Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 If Ned beats Tywin there the city might burn as Ned isn't getting in without a bloody assault that might end in a defeat or a siege. But he's not killing any kids, why would he? Ned got angry when he learned whwt happened to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Tywin murdered those kids and Elia for revenge No, he didn't, at least not as far as we know. Tywin had no reason to lie in a private conversation with his son. Tyrion, who is generally a pretty good judge, believes him. Until a time GRRM changes the motives then people will continue to give the motives given by the author. He had no reason to blame Elia or the children for the marriage, they dont get to decide it. The King and the Prince do. Call it likely rather than highly likely then we'll see. No, its highly likely. Given that we know his reaction to their dead bodies when it happened, how he feels about it in the present day, how he tried to assassinate a 13 year old Dany and her unborn child and what we know of the real medieval ages then it is fair to say that it is highly likely that they would have been killed. But please, provide your thoughts on why he would have spared them given what we know of the man and the times they lived in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 But he's not killing any kids, why would he? Ned got angry when he learned whwt happened to them. No he isn't killing the kids but he doesn't get to make the choice. He's not getting near them for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 But he's not killing any kids, why would he? Ned got angry when he learned whwt happened to them. And yet he did nothing when Mycah was killed by one of the Kings party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 If Ned beats Tywin there the city might burn as Ned isn't getting in without a bloody assault that might end in a defeat or a siege. True, but that's battle and war, and sure we could get into a whole other debate about the atrocities that occur in that as well, but it's a little different than ordering the murder of a woman and her infant childern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 And yet he did nothing when Mycah was killed by one of the Kings party. Uhh, I think your statement kinda has the explanation right in it. The kings party, what is Ned suppose to do against the king? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Uhh, I think your statement kinda has the explanation right in it. The kings party, what is Ned suppose to do against the king? Sow what is he going to do when one of Roberts followers kills the royal kids at Kings Landing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 No, he didn't, at least not as far as we know. Tywin had no reason to lie in a private conversation with his son. Tyrion, who is generally a pretty good judge, believes him. Until a time GRRM changes the motives then people will continue to give the motives given by the author. He had no reason to blame Elia or the children for the marriage, they dont get to decide it. The King and the Prince do. Tywin would lie to Tyrion especially about acts concerning his image this is the same men who had the audacity to chide Tyrion on thinking that he ordered Elia raped when he goes on to say "even you would not think that I would give an order like that" when he had ordered Tysha gang raped. There is no reason Tywin should have killed Aegon and Rhaenys agin his reputation, weath, power, and daughter is all he needed to get in good with Robert. And yes Tywin is a petty monster who have blamed people for things out of their control its not that hard to think he would have killed Elia for marrying Rhaegar when he spent years trying to arrange that marriage or kill Aegon and Rhaenys for one last fuck you to Aerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Sow what is he going to do when one of Roberts followers kills the royal kids at Kings Landing?Well there's nothing he could do to prevent their murder after the fact, if that were to happen, but I know he wouldn't have ordered their murder as Tywin had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Well there's nothing he could do to prevent their murder after the fact, if that were to happen, but i know he wouldn't have ordered their murder as Tywin had. Was anyone claiming that he would have? It likely would have happened regardless of Ned. He could have carried on feeling morally superior to everyone while someone else did it. And yes Tywin is a petty monster who have blamed people for things out of their control its not that hard to think he would have killed Elia for marrying Rhaegar when he spent years trying to arrange that marriage or kill Aegon and Rhaenys for one last fuck you to Aerys. Don't be ridiculous. If he wanted to be petty towards Aerys he could have sent his worst after him. Elia had very little to do with the marriage. How is it that you still don't understand this? We see with his own daughter how he is the one to order her to marry, he understands their society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Was anyone claiming that he would have? It likely would have happened regardless of Ned. He could have carried on feeling morally superior to everyone while someone else did it.Ok, so now justifying Tywin's actions have went from, he had to do it in order to prove his loyalty, to he needed to insure a good match for his daughter, and now to, it likely would have happened anyway. Yeah, I'm convinced, I guess Tywin is a pretty stand up guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I don't have much sympathy for the Reynes and Tarbecks. They were a plague on the Westerlands, whose behaviour towards their liege lord bordered upon the insane. Drowning them at the end was harsh, but Tywin would have taken massive casualties, had he attempted to fight his way into the mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Ok, so now justifying Tywin's actions have went from, he had to do it in order to prove his loyalty, to he needed to insure a good match for his daughter, and now to, it likely would have happened anyway. Yeah, I'm convinced, I guess Tywin is a pretty stand up guy. You do realize there are multiple people on this forum, right? That you are not just talking to one person. Assigning all the various arguments you have heard to one person is idiotic. In my opinion Tywin did it for ambition. They would have been killed anyway, better that he do it and advance his own cause than someone else. Also who has called Tywin a 'stand up guy'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 You do realize there are multiple people on this forum, right? That you are not just talking to one person. Assigning all the various arguments you have heard to one person is idiotic. In my opinion Tywin did it for ambition. They would have been killed anyway, better that he do it and advance his own cause than someone else. Also who has called Tywin a 'stand up guy'?So in the same post that you object to being classified with the same views as others, you state that you support those same views? Ok, I could call that idiotic as well. Also, didn't say that somebody called Tywin a stand up guy, I was stating that the sound arguments I have heard, convinced me that he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 So in the same post that you object to being classified with the same views as others, you state that you support those same views? Ok, I could call that idiotic as well. Nope. Where have I said 'he had to do it'? Please show the quote where I said that? or where I said he 'needed to do it to ensure a good match for his daughter'? Also, didn't say that somebody called Tywin a stand up guy, I was stating that the sound arguments I have heard, convinced me that he was. Really? Provide these quotes that made you feel this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 You do realize there are multiple people on this forum, right? That you are not just talking to one person. Assigning all the various arguments you have heard to one person is idiotic. In my opinion Tywin did it for ambition. They would have been killed anyway, better that he do it and advance his own cause than someone else. Also who has called Tywin a 'stand up guy'?What reason to marry Cersei to Robert, if not out of ambition? There is no quote, it's called sarcasm, I really don't think he's a stand up guy. Besides, I only quoted you specifically because you put up the latest excuse for Tywin. I'm on a mobile and its difficult for me to do multiple quotes. I apologize if you feel I misrepresented you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekromancer Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 It would be a massive dick move if I was brutally killed just because my distant uncle did something stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdallah Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Tywin murdered those kids and Elia for revenge people need to stop eating the bullshit that he did it to show Robert his support that's what pisses me off people defending his actions by saying he had to do it when Robert was forgiving to everyone not named Targaryen. Arryn would have still proposed the Cersei match for Robert because Tywin would still be someone powerful and a great match and all this could have been done without Tywin murdering babies and innocents to supposedly get in good with Robert. Tywin had a capable track record trailing his rule, being head of a great and powerful house and a beautiful maiden daughter that he all bought to the table and would have advanced him in the new government without having to lay out dead babies in front of the King. What revenge? Aerys is dead, Tywin wouldn't throw away all relations with Dorne because he was mad. He's described as cold as ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdallah Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 It would be a massive dick move if I was brutally killed just because my distant uncle did something stupid. Well there weren't any real cadet branches, except maybe one bastard branch that was left unharmed. Most of the Reynes and Tarbecks fought in the battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 OP: "those babies deserved to be drowned to death" WTF is wrong with people on this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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