Abdallah Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 So people mention Houses Reynes and Tarbecks were wiped out by Tywin, which is often a criticism of Tywin. However i personally believe they deserved it, MINUS THE KIDS. Let me give you the history. Gerold the Golden was lord of Casterly Rock and had 4 sons, Tywald, Tion, Tytos and Jason. The trouble began because of Ellyn Reyne, who wanted to be lady of Casterly Rock. Tywald was engaged to Ellyn Reyne. Then he died during the Peake Uprising, as was Ellyn's father. Tion Lannister then married her, after she seduced him, and apparently it was also he's brother's dying wish. But guess what, he died at the battle of Wendwater Bridge during the 4th Blackfrye rebellion. So what does Ellyn do? she tries to seduce Tytos, who's married to Jeyne Marbrand. Tytos was so scared of her that he couldn't do it and ran back to his wife, who forgave him. Now Georld was at this time depressed because 2 of his sons died. Yet he was determined to help out his son Tytos. First he decided to force Ellyn to Marry the lord Tarbeck who was old and already had several sons, and ruled nothing but a broken keep. Georld eventually died, leaving Tytos lord of Casterly Rock. Tytos was a kind man, but a weak man. He would lead out money that many never repaid. He also allowed a great deal of leeway. They also called him the laughing lion because he was always laughing at jokes. at first they were laughing with him, then they laughed at him. He stopped laughing once his wife died, who he really did love. Tytos was a good hearted man and was very kind. Now Tytos simply wanted to be friends with everyone, and do you know how they repaid Tytos for his kindness? They mocked him and used him to gain lands. The Reynes and Tarbecks because rich and powerful under Tytos, using his gold to buy lands and castles. When the tarbecks ran into people who refused to sell, they simply stole it by force. Some of these knights when to king Aegon V. Now Tytos had just lost his wife, who died, but when Aegon told him to take care of the Tarbecks he agreed, and decided to send his grieving father in law, Lord Deny's Marbrand, who was happy that Tytos finally stood up to the Tarbecks. Unfortunately the Reynes had spies, and decided to ambush Lord Marbrand and killed him. They even involved Kevan Lannister. When Tytos heard about this he turned as purple as a plum with rage. but before he could call his banners, the Reynes showed up and said they thought he was an outlaw. So Tytos pardon them, mainly because he was worried about Kevan. Things got worse after that with chaos in the westerlands before the War of the 9 Penny kings. Tywin Lannister returned a much more harden man and basically took over. Tywin demanded the loans be paid back and if they couldn't then they had to give a hostage. Hays Swyft gave up his daughter Dorna, who eventually married Kevan Lannister. Lord Tarbeck when up to Casterly Rock to bully Tytos, but Tywin threw him in jail. So what does Ellyn Reyne do? she kidnaps three Lannisters including Tytos's nephew Stafford. Tytos, fearing for his nephew allowed for a prisoner swap, instead of Tywin's suggestion of sending Lord Tarbeck back in three pieces. The next Year Tywin calls them in to answer for their crimes, and they rebel, believing Tywin to be a weak little lion. Unknown to them Tywin had his army ready, with 500 knights and 3000 infantry. Many remained loyal to the Lannisters, with Houses Marbrand, Prestler, and a dozen other lesser lords joined, making the force 6,000. Cocky Lord Tarbeck took his 500 knights and got his ass kicked. So Lord Tarbeck was like "well you caught us, now you can ransom us". Tywin responds by pointing out Lady Tarbeck (ellyn reyne) would be using Lannister gold to pay the ransom, and instead executed all the Tarbeck men. With their heads on spikes he marched on Tarbeck Hall, rebuilt with Lannister gold. Ellyn Reyne was like "our walls are strong and we'll hold out until my brothers come". Next day Tarbeck Hall was sacked, the tower collapsing on her and her son. The Tarbeck women were spared and allowed to become silent sisters (although some say Tywin cut out their tongues first). Then they defeated The Reynes. Lord Reyne was wounded, and his brother offered some terms, saying they would be loyal in exchange for Kevan being a hostage. Instead Tywin diverted a river and drowned them in their underground castle. Houses Reyne and Tarbeck had a kind LP, and repaid him with betrayal and treachery. They wanted to overthrow the lannisters so i have no sympathy for them. If House Reyne and Tarbeck survived, they might have joined with Robb Stark. Perhaps if the Starks did that, the boltons might not be ruling winterfell. House Tully could have done that once and they wouldn't have to beg their bannermen to join them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 There is a difference between explaining something and condoning it. Tywin's actions are understandable, but they still show a ruthlessness that should not be justified by a present-day reader. The Reynes and Tarbecks brought their fate upon themselves, but this doesn't mean they "deserved" it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I really don't ever see anyone really criticizing Tywin about the Reynes and Tarbecks except killing children. And I really don't blame Tywin on his campaign agisnt the Reynes and Tarbecks they were deliberately dismissing Lannister rule and causing chaos in the Westerlands Tywin and any Lannister had every right to put them down. I still think killing the children was unnecessarily cruel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellatrix Stark Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I think the way Twyin did it is the issue, not the why. What he did to the Reynes was the work of a psychopath imo. Drowning them in their underground castle... Noooope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I would say Lady Tarbeck deserved her fate and the Lannisters needed to reassert dominance, but the method could have been mlder. It served its purpose though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Wasn't this version of the story written by a Maester with a Lannister bias?;) Even so, it still isn't justified to completely wipe out two families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 So, technically, if Tywin had done something to upset Aerys, he should have gone and killed him, Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion, Devan, Tyrek, Lancel, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspoi Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 So you condone child murder by adding a lot of what if scenarios to an already existing event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdallah Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 So you condone child murder by adding a lot of what if scenarios to an already existing event? I wouldn't murder the kids, just expel them. He did spare the women and children of house Tarbeck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdallah Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 So, technically, if Tywin had done something to upset Aerys, he should have gone and killed him, Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion, Devan, Tyrek, Lancel, etc, etc. If House Lannister was a crownland house i guess. It wasn't just that the Reynes upset him, they murdered his grandfather, and tried to take out house Lannister. I would have been ok with sparing the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdallah Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 Wasn't this version of the story written by a Maester with a Lannister bias? ;) Even so, it still isn't justified to completely wipe out two families. He didn't kill the tarbeck women and children, just the men. The kids were kicked out of the westerlands. the reynes suffered a harsher fate, but for the most part they shouldn't of tried to overthrow the lannisters. Tytos was nice to them and they betrayed him over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdallah Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 I think the way Twyin did it is the issue, not the why. What he did to the Reynes was the work of a psychopath imo. Drowning them in their underground castle... Noooope. that is some psychopathic shit. i think thats why he did it. a few years later Lord Farmar of Fair Isle was giving him some shit. Instead of having to go over there and punish him or fight him or anything, he just played the rains of Castamere, and Lorder farmar was like "im sorry tywin, please don't wipe us out". In this world you don't want people to mess with you. So thanks to that his enemies and rivals know "don't mess with this dude, he'll wipe you out". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdallah Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 I really don't ever see anyone really criticizing Tywin about the Reynes and Tarbecks except killing children. And I really don't blame Tywin on his campaign agisnt the Reynes and Tarbecks they were deliberately dismissing Lannister rule and causing chaos in the Westerlands Tywin and any Lannister had every right to put them down. I still think killing the children was unnecessarily cruel. I would have exiled the kids. The tarbeck kids were spared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great and Mighty Poo Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 that is some psychopathic shit. i think thats why he did it. a few years later Lord Farmar of Fair Isle was giving him some shit. Instead of having to go over there and punish him or fight him or anything, he just played the rains of Castamere, and Lorder farmar was like "im sorry tywin, please don't wipe us out". In this world you don't want people to mess with you. So thanks to that his enemies and rivals know "don't mess with this dude, he'll wipe you out". I mean it could have been the complete opposite effect. Like once Tywin did these deeds people could have been so appalled by this they rose up against him ie: Roberts rebellion. And this the Feudal system tywin is supposed to protect his lessor lords that's why they swear to him. So these petty deeds cost women their tongues children and families. Have you ever seen someone drown? It's horrible. Even after jumping in to save them it's not a pretty sight. And you're quoting a guy who has a hard on for the Lannisters. Also measters are known for spinning the truth. The westeros propaganda machine. In conclusion, I disagree with you 110 %. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 And you're quoting a guy who has a hard on for the Lannisters. Also measters are known for spinning the truth. The westeros propaganda machine. In conclusion, I disagree with you 110 %. Yes, I pointed that out, and it was conveniently overlooked.;) I took the story at half face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdallah Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 I mean it could have been the complete opposite effect. Like once Tywin did these deeds people could have been so appalled by this they rose up against him ie: Roberts rebellion. And this the Feudal system tywin is supposed to protect his lessor lords that's why they swear to him. So these petty deeds cost women their tongues children and families. Have you ever seen someone drown? It's horrible. Even after jumping in to save them it's not a pretty sight. And you're quoting a guy who has a hard on for the Lannisters. Also measters are known for spinning the truth. The westeros propaganda machine. In conclusion, I disagree with you 110 %. But we do know that Lord Marbrand was killed by Roger Reyne, we know that house Tarbeck was using their gold. What petty deeds? Murdering his grandfather is petty? Stealing peoples lands was petty? Other maesters will confirm that they went to Aegon V to complain. yes in feudal societies the Liege lord protects his lesser lords. He protects houses Marbrand, Lefford, Prester, etc. Houses Reyne and Tarbeck tried to overthrow their liege lord. in feudal societies if you tried to overthrow your liege lord you die. By the time Tywin crushed them, the other houses were sick of the chaos and joined due to Tywin reestablishing order. Look i agree that the women and children should have been spared, but other than that i don't really have a problem with him wiping out two traitor vassals. House Tully did the complete opposite. they never TRUELY punished a house for betrayal. During Robert's rebellion 4 of their vassals joined the Targaryens, and a 5th hid in his castle. During the war of the 5 kings, they had to negotiate to get the freys to let their allies cross. What if houses tarbeck and reyne rebelled again during the Wot5ks? they would have lost the westerlands. So if you say he could have spared the kids and women, im fine with that. but if you say you feel bad for those traitors, then i disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdallah Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Yes, I pointed that out, and it was conveniently overlooked. ;) I took the story at half face value. So what do you thing happened m'lady? what parts would be false? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I wouldn't murder the kids, just expel them. He did spare the women and children of house Tarbeck. That sounds to me like you are saying that the children of house Reyne didn't deserve their fate. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdallah Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 That sounds to me like you are saying that the children of house Reyne didn't deserve their fate. I agree. The kids didn't. But fuck the adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 The kids didn't. But fuck the adults. The women and the children and many others did not deserve to be murdered. But they were murdered. Therefore they did not deserve their fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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