What Howland Reed Knows

[Pipewrenched]

Imagine Howland falls from his horse, hitting his head.....and having amnesia!!  

 

Ha-ha...would that NOT be par for the course?  Haha

[jthurman14]

He could be dead. His heir would be an interesting bit. (I know Meera and Jojen never mention an elder sibling, but they never say they are first heirs and have been sent on a suicide mission by someone..)

However I am more inclined to think that HR is alive and working for more than his liege lord. The crannogman's connections to the cotf, which are obvious, would put this character in the position to be aware of the bigger story. The squabbles of the 7k are nothing compared to the long night. Would someone with the ability of greendream risk annihilation by 'others' over yet another war among the 7k, which he and his people are sure to survive? I doubt it.

He will risk appearing only for his "one true love".

[Walda]

Hopefully, Robb's messengers stay alive.

The bit that troubles me is “You’ll carry letters for those lords of mine who remain in the north, but all the commands within will be false, in case you have the misfortune to be taken. If that happens, you must tell them that you were sailing for the north. Back to Bear Island, or for the Stony Shore.”(ASoS,Ch.45 Catelyn V)

No, I'm sure nothing can go wrong there. GRRM was probably just packing their satchels with disinstructions for Arnolf. Crowsfood, Whoresbane, Ondrew Locke, Lords Manderly and Ryswell, the ladies of Widow's Watch, Cerywn, Torrhen Square, Hornwood, Bear Island, Barrowtown and Deepwood Motte. the Wulls, Norrys and Liddles, for the hell of it. He has probably forgotten all about those false letters now, its been so long.

I love the idea of Howland going to the Isle of Faces. More and more it seems to me that the whole point of the War of the Five Kings was to familiarise us with the geography of the Riverlands, skating around the Gods Eye. Bran can warg through the trees to them, Arya through Nymeria to them. Jaime will probably have to go after them, Stoneheart is in the area also. And Gendry. And where better for a faceless man to head than to the Isle of Faces?

Howland knew Jojen's mission on coming to Bran, and if he is on the Gods Eye, he can probably establish communication with Bran, at least to the extent of being aware that Bran can see and hear him - although talking to the trees doesn't lend credibility to your argument as  a general rule, and people who saw Bran's dead body probably think they saw Rickon's dead body too. FArya won't help that any.

But the idea that pretty little Jayne Westerling becomes the younger, more beautiful queen that rises up and destroys all that Cersei holds dear, really appeals to me.

[Ser Greggor the Baked]

I always loved the idea that Ashara Dayne is the mother of Jojen and Meera, and went to live with HR after the TOJ. Which, actually leads me to wonder if Dawn is actually in their possession and will be delivered to whoever needs it by HR and AD, and then us the readers (and a few important characters) will learn about the past. 

[Little and Less]

What is interesting to me about HR is that he continues to fight for the Starks - so there is obviously info we don't know yet.

1. HR and his men continue to fight a guerilla war with the Boltons - Roose mentions that HR men continue to take out Boltons close to the neck. 

2. Before Robb was killed he instructed his chosen bannermen (Mormont and Glover) to take instructions to HR (when he planned to take back Winterfell after the RW) which HR continued to follow after Robb died.  This tells us, 1. HR received the instructions, and 2. that the fight for the North is not over.  Probably because HR knows that Robb named Jon as KITN/Bran and/or Rickon are still alive. 

3.  There is a good chance he has been in contact with Lady Stoneheart, since she and her BWB men have "disappeared" somewhere near Hag Mire which is very close to GreyWater Watch territory.  If Lady Stoneheart is seeking vengence against Freys, it only stands to reason that she would want HR's men to fight the Boltons on another front.

[Little and Less]

I actually want HR to run into Jaime and for these two characters to have a heart to heart.  If HR is to be revealed my hope is through Jaime's POV.

Why Jaime?

1. Because he started out as the most unlikely Stark supporter there is - actually causing the Starks downfall with throwing Bran out the window.  Stark Restoration appears to be part of his redemptive arc.

2. Because Jaime talks in his POV about Cristian Cole - about the imagery of the Kingslayer becoming the Kingmaker.  HR is currently in possession of some Kingmaker info as well - either via Robb's Will or the Tower of Joy info on Jon.

3. Because I think Jaime will remember things about the Tourney at Harrenhall, Rheagar Targaryen, and Robert's Rebellion that might align with the information that HR knows, should he talk to him. Jaime could be an unlikely source that confirms some of HR's information.

4. Because in Jaime's weirwood dream, Jaime is upset that he didn't save Rheagar's children from the Mad King and his father.  If R+L=J, this is also Jaime's chance to save the last of Rheagar's children.  A fact that he could get from HR.

5. And because he is in the vicinity - HR could easily be revealed when the BWB try to hang Jaime, and HR simple appearance could be a way to stop Jaime's death. 

 

[Tannim]

While Howland Reed likely possesses critical knowledge of the past, of concern on a personal level to several characters, and likely holding knowledge that would affect Northern politics, I suspect his motive is more that playing the Game, north or south or the 7K as a whole.

His only actions known so far, in the current era, are holding the Neck for the Starks and sending his children to Winterfell.  Of the two, his children are key.  They go based on Jojen's greendreams so obviously HR believes in those dreams/visions.  That implies a further belief in any other visions Jojen, or HR may have had, about the future.

Might Howland have seen the coming of the Other?  Thats my personal belief, and a reason why he's kept the Cranngomen out of the Game in large part.  Aside from the guerrilla warfare around Calin, no Cranngomen have played a part in the war itself.  I suspect he knows from visions and greendreams that Winter, and the Other, are coming, and held his people back.  Best to prepare for the storms of the future than waste his own people in mundane, temporal wars.

And if he does have foreknowledge of the war of winter... whom could he tell, that might believe him?  Too many Lords are focused on the Game.  Too much time has passed, and beliefs in the Old Gods powers have faded into myth, legend.  Wargs are feared south of the Wall, and greenseers are reduced to superstition.  Few beyond the cranngomen, whom kept to the old lore and ways, believe in such powers.

Yes, he can change the Game and politics of the North by his past knowledge, possibly present position of the Will, and other subjects.  Yet such things mean little when the Other sweep south, and Howland knows this.  As shown when Bran attempted to warn WInterfell of the Ironborn attack, based on Jojen's greendreams, of the ridiculed Cranngomen, no one believed him.  Probably HR knows thats the reception he'd get from the Lords of the North if he went around proclaiming the Others are coming.  If someone didn't believe before, they likely won't until the threat bites them on the arse.

[cutuphalfdead]

 

2. Because Jaime talks in his POV about Cristian Cole - about the imagery of the Kingslayer becoming the Kingmaker.  HR is currently in possession of some Kingmaker info as well - either via Robb's Will or the Tower of Joy info on Jon.

 

This can mean little here, and only have been mentioned to parallel what went on with Arianne Martell in the very next chapter.

[Curled Finger]

He could be dead. His heir would be an interesting bit. (I know Meera and Jojen never mention an elder sibling, but they never say they are first heirs and have been sent on a suicide mission by someone..)

However I am more inclined to think that HR is alive and working for more than his liege lord. The crannogman's connections to the cotf, which are obvious, would put this character in the position to be aware of the bigger story. The squabbles of the 7k are nothing compared to the long night. Would someone with the ability of greendream risk annihilation by 'others' over yet another war among the 7k, which he and his people are sure to survive? I doubt it.

He will risk appearing only for his "one true love".

Oh Gads wouldn't that just be the way?   I'm not sure how old HR is but that could figure into whether or not there are elder children.   If he was only 15-16 like Lyanna, then Meera is probably the oldest.   Truth is we just don't know and anything is possible with this guy.   

You're thinking what I'm thinking, Pinkie, HR has got a lot more at stake than northern politics.   I find it curious that the only places he shows up are in the events surrounding the fruition of the pact of Ice and Fire (finally) and the birth of the song of ice and fire.   Very interesting indeed.   He's definitely got some inner knowledge of the Others and hopefully what to do about them.   

I love the idea of Howland going to the Isle of Faces. More and more it seems to me that the whole point of the War of the Five Kings was to familiarise us with the geography of the Riverlands, skating around the Gods Eye. Bran can warg through the trees to them, Arya through Nymeria to them. Jaime will probably have to go after them, Stoneheart is in the area also. And Gendry. And where better for a faceless man to head than to the Isle of Faces?

Howland knew Jojen's mission on coming to Bran, and if he is on the Gods Eye, he can probably establish communication with Bran, at least to the extent of being aware that Bran can see and hear him - although talking to the trees doesn't lend credibility to your argument as  a general rule, and people who saw Bran's dead body probably think they saw Rickon's dead body too. FArya won't help that any.

But the idea that pretty little Jayne Westerling becomes the younger, more beautiful queen that rises up and destroys all that Cersei holds dear, really appeals to me.

Yah, that's a really cool scenario.  I cut the top of your post out to save space, but we aren't alone in wondering what became of Mormont & Glover.  I reason that because HR is the only person in the history of persons in Westeros to study with the Green Men that he's got to be able to have some ability that transcends what everyone else (who hasn't had this education) is able to do.   That's where it occurred to me that HR may speak the Old Tongue.   I'm sure there is plenty more he could learn, but that what I settled on.   I don't think he necessarily needs to visit The Gods Eye, but it sure would be a cool thing for all we long suffering readers to see.   Beside, he is descended from the Marsh Kings--if they weren't married into the COTF I'll be a monkey's uncle.   

I hate the idea of another younger more beautiful queen since I'm so invested in Marj being just this queen.   I'm on the fence with Jeyne.   If she has no baby what good is she?  I do want to see her mother pay for being such a bad mom and Jeyne get to a safe place where she will be loved and cared for.   She's suffered plenty.  It still nags me that there is no baby.   

I actually want HR to run into Jaime and for these two characters to have a heart to heart.  If HR is to be revealed my hope is through Jaime's POV.

Why Jaime?

1. Because he started out as the most unlikely Stark supporter there is - actually causing the Starks downfall with throwing Bran out the window.  Stark Restoration appears to be part of his redemptive arc.

2. Because Jaime talks in his POV about Cristian Cole - about the imagery of the Kingslayer becoming the Kingmaker.  HR is currently in possession of some Kingmaker info as well - either via Robb's Will or the Tower of Joy info on Jon.

3. Because I think Jaime will remember things about the Tourney at Harrenhall, Rheagar Targaryen, and Robert's Rebellion that might align with the information that HR knows, should he talk to him. Jaime could be an unlikely source that confirms some of HR's information.

4. Because in Jaime's weirwood dream, Jaime is upset that he didn't save Rheagar's children from the Mad King and his father.  If R+L=J, this is also Jaime's chance to save the last of Rheagar's children.  A fact that he could get from HR.

5. And because he is in the vicinity - HR could easily be revealed when the BWB try to hang Jaime, and HR simple appearance could be a way to stop Jaime's death. 

 

Dude, blood of my blood, this is so very nice.   Tell it--I see his sort of loyalty to the Starks all over his adventures.   Jamie as a kingmaker is nothing short of bitchen I love this.  You bring up Jamie's dream and I wonder if he will be the one to see the truth or lie in fAegon and Jon?   I have been stumped as to what could really get Jamie out of the BWB pickle he's in without Brienne sacrificing herself.  There are signs pointing to you being real right on this.   Think about why we are told repeatedly about LSH's turning of Robb's crown over and over--I would love to see her reaction to Jon being the true born son, king and savior.   I never in a million years imagined HR's coming out party with this group.   Nicely done. 

While Howland Reed likely possesses critical knowledge of the past, of concern on a personal level to several characters, and likely holding knowledge that would affect Northern politics, I suspect his motive is more that playing the Game, north or south or the 7K as a whole.

His only actions known so far, in the current era, are holding the Neck for the Starks and sending his children to Winterfell.  Of the two, his children are key.  They go based on Jojen's greendreams so obviously HR believes in those dreams/visions.  That implies a further belief in any other visions Jojen, or HR may have had, about the future.

Might Howland have seen the coming of the Other?  Thats my personal belief, and a reason why he's kept the Cranngomen out of the Game in large part.  Aside from the guerrilla warfare around Calin, no Cranngomen have played a part in the war itself.  I suspect he knows from visions and greendreams that Winter, and the Other, are coming, and held his people back.  Best to prepare for the storms of the future than waste his own people in mundane, temporal wars.

And if he does have foreknowledge of the war of winter... whom could he tell, that might believe him?  Too many Lords are focused on the Game.  Too much time has passed, and beliefs in the Old Gods powers have faded into myth, legend.  Wargs are feared south of the Wall, and greenseers are reduced to superstition.  Few beyond the cranngomen, whom kept to the old lore and ways, believe in such powers.

Yes, he can change the Game and politics of the North by his past knowledge, possibly present position of the Will, and other subjects.  Yet such things mean little when the Other sweep south, and Howland knows this.  As shown when Bran attempted to warn WInterfell of the Ironborn attack, based on Jojen's greendreams, of the ridiculed Cranngomen, no one believed him.  Probably HR knows thats the reception he'd get from the Lords of the North if he went around proclaiming the Others are coming.  If someone didn't believe before, they likely won't until the threat bites them on the arse.

Yes Yes and Yes.  I hope HR actually knows what the Pact of Ice and Fire is and requires.   To your wargs, I can't recall any mention of them south of the North.    This isn't a commonly known thing among the Andals.  Nor are the green gifts, though those Southroners do have some ability to prophesy and have visions the skill/talent is largely marginalized.   I have to agree with you 100% on every word and your last sentiment has me thinking Jamie could lend a great deal of credence to HR's real cause.   Oh yeah there is something here. 

 

 

[Curled Finger]

I always loved the idea that Ashara Dayne is the mother of Jojen and Meera, and went to live with HR after the TOJ. Which, actually leads me to wonder if Dawn is actually in their possession and will be delivered to whoever needs it by HR and AD, and then us the readers (and a few important characters) will learn about the past. 

Man I'm having a hard time with our new and improved forum--tried to reply 3 times to this.    Maybe this one will work.  What's cool about Ashara going with HR is that it is so unexpected and sweet.   A thousand times better than her becoming Quaithe or Septa Lemore.   The relationships between the Starks/Reeds and Starks/Daynes, even Reeds/Daynes are intriguing.   Here's to hope will will get a deeper understanding what these people are in the near future.   

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

I actually want HR to run into Jaime and for these two characters to have a heart to heart.  If HR is to be revealed my hope is through Jaime's POV.

Why Jaime?

1. Because he started out as the most unlikely Stark supporter there is - actually causing the Starks downfall with throwing Bran out the window.  Stark Restoration appears to be part of his redemptive arc.

2. Because Jaime talks in his POV about Cristian Cole - about the imagery of the Kingslayer becoming the Kingmaker.  HR is currently in possession of some Kingmaker info as well - either via Robb's Will or the Tower of Joy info on Jon.

3. Because I think Jaime will remember things about the Tourney at Harrenhall, Rheagar Targaryen, and Robert's Rebellion that might align with the information that HR knows, should he talk to him. Jaime could be an unlikely source that confirms some of HR's information.

4. Because in Jaime's weirwood dream, Jaime is upset that he didn't save Rheagar's children from the Mad King and his father.  If R+L=J, this is also Jaime's chance to save the last of Rheagar's children.  A fact that he could get from HR.

5. And because he is in the vicinity - HR could easily be revealed when the BWB try to hang Jaime, and HR simple appearance could be a way to stop Jaime's death. 

 

I want HR to be seen in Jamie's pov too!!! Haha.

[winterfellsedai]

Howland Reed is one of the greatest mysteries of the series.   We are told so much through other characters but have yet to see him.   A Crannogman, descendant of the Marsh Kings, guerilla soldier who lives on a moving island in marshes populated with deadly unseen things and land.   His travels include The Isle of Faces where he studied with Green Men and The Tower of Joy where he either witnessed or participated in the end of a celebrated Kings Guard and the birth of a King.   A worshipper of the Old Gods, Howland likely has green powers in seeing or dreaming like his son Jojen.  A loyal bannerman, he holds The Neck at the command of the Young Wolf and knows his King and liege lords have been all but destroyed.   We will soon find out if he is also an hospitable host to his visitors from Robb’s council.   As it unfolds we will see the extent of the information Howland Reed possesses will put Little Finger and Varys to shame.  Why does this little man have so much knowledge?   Is his close association with Ned Stark a result of his training on the Isle of Faces?  Has he positioned himself to be in the thick of the birth and circumstances of the song of ice and fire? 

Howland has multiple pieces of game changing information that will play large in the events about to unfold.  He knows Bran is alive as he sent his children to aid in finding the 3EC.   He knows Jon Snow is Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryan’s son.  It is popularly believed that he’s got Robb’s will or fair  knowledge of it and all that entails: legitimizing Jon Snow, releasing Jon from his vows to the Nights Watch, appointing him KITN and making Jon heir to Winterfell. He probably knows why Ned had to take Dawn back to the Daynes—he may even know exactly how they and Dawn play into all this. He may know what Lyanna made Ned promise.  Great.   Now what’s he supposed to say when we finally meet him? 

Each piece of information Howland has trumps the next.   Robb’s will is essentially nullified by both Bran living and Jon not being Ned Stark’s son.   How dangerous would it be for all The North’s plans to simply tell the truth—Rickon can’t be Lord of Winterfell and Jon can’t be a true Stark.   Will The North rally behind another Targ?   Will Howland give Jon a choice of identities?    What will Stannis do with a Targ partner?  What will Manderly do when Rickon can’t be their Stark in Winterfell?  How does any of this affect the Wildlings’ loyalty to Jon and desire to move south? What of Ned’s bones and the host who were escorting them?  Does Jon’s being a cousin as opposed to bastard brother affect the remaining Stark children? 

I offer that whatever Howland Reed discloses will change the entire game both end and of thrones.   Let’s try not to get caught up in arguments about wills & decrees versus birthrights.   He’s got a lot more information than we do.   What he does with it will impact all of Westeros.   What does Howland Reed know? 

[dornishdame]

I actually want HR to run into Jaime and for these two characters to have a heart to heart.  If HR is to be revealed my hope is through Jaime's POV.

Why Jaime?

1. Because he started out as the most unlikely Stark supporter there is - actually causing the Starks downfall with throwing Bran out the window.  Stark Restoration appears to be part of his redemptive arc.

2. Because Jaime talks in his POV about Cristian Cole - about the imagery of the Kingslayer becoming the Kingmaker.  HR is currently in possession of some Kingmaker info as well - either via Robb's Will or the Tower of Joy info on Jon.

3. Because I think Jaime will remember things about the Tourney at Harrenhall, Rheagar Targaryen, and Robert's Rebellion that might align with the information that HR knows, should he talk to him. Jaime could be an unlikely source that confirms some of HR's information.

4. Because in Jaime's weirwood dream, Jaime is upset that he didn't save Rheagar's children from the Mad King and his father.  If R+L=J, this is also Jaime's chance to save the last of Rheagar's children.  A fact that he could get from HR.

5. And because he is in the vicinity - HR could easily be revealed when the BWB try to hang Jaime, and HR simple appearance could be a way to stop Jaime's death. 

 

I've had similar thoughts.  Jaime is on a redemptive arc at the moment, as you point out, and the thing that he feels genuine guilt over is the deaths of Rhaegar's children.  Whatever our view of the situation is as readers, Jaime feels justified in killing Aerys when he plans to slaughter the entire capital (a blaze that, presumably, would also have taken out Elia and her children - I don't see Aerys being the sort of man to let his hostages go before burning down the city). As the only Kingsguard left in King's Landing, Jaime was effectively being entrusted with the safety of Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon as well as that of Aerys. Jaime doesn't seem to believe that his father's men would kill Elia and her children.  And his mention of Cole, I agree could be significant. It could perhaps foreshadow him supporting a king that isn't Tommen - which would be interesting, given that Tommen is his son and given that he seems to feel, while in the Riverlands, that he should return to the capital and free Tommen from Cersei's claws.  

Most of this next part is full of ifs and buts, but here goes - I did wonder if, after being told of the contents of Robb's will - a will that presumably still names Jon as his heir, HR has told some elements of the BwB (or perhaps even just Lady Stoneheart) that R+L=J.  Jaime would then be given a choice - death, or taking the black and righting the one wrong he can in protecting Rhaegar's son.  It is a bit crackpot, and mostly relies on Lady Stoneheart wanting to carry out the terms of Robb's will (even though she was adamant that she didn't want Jon as heir), R+L=J, and HR telling even just Lady Stoneheart that is the case.  

Jaime as the POV through which we meet HR would also be intriguing given that Jaime may not know who he is.  If Jon, Sansa, Arya or Bran were to meet him, they would know immediately who he was just by his name,  Through Jaime, on the other hand, GRRM could insert some intrigue - perhaps making it clear to the reader that it is HR, but not Jaime himself. 

[Krugal]

I'm a firm believer of Jaime as Kingmaker (as you can see in my signature) and I believe the revelation of Jon's heritage and probably Howland's appearance will be seen through Jaime's POV. Apart from the reasons listed above, it really fits Jaime's arc and character, as he now takes his Kingsguard vows very serious and would be given the chance to pick up where Arthur Dayne left off - defending Jon ("That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead). And choosing Jon before Tommen seems to be exactly the kind of difficult and morally grey decision that Martin likes to throw Jaime's way.

[sarah.jenice]

Little and Less, I love your argument for a HR+JL heart to heart. I'm in. 

Even though we don't know that much about Howland, I've always felt like he's a good guy and very loyal to the Starks from Ned's memories, Jojen and Meera (I really like them both and feel like they were raised by honorable, loving parents, which is a big plus in this story) and the continued efforts of the Crannogmen to keep up the North's fight after the Red Wedding. 

I don't see Howland as someone who would want to be a player in the GoT. He hasn't left the Neck since returning from Robert's Rebellion, so if he has any sort of long game, I think it's related to the threat of the Others and the Long Night rather than politically driven issues like the heir to Winterfell or the rightful king on the IT. From what we learn from Jojen, it seems highly possible that the crannogmen still remember things from the CotF that might be crucial in driving back the Others. 

As for Jon, we don't know the specifics of the Lyanna+Ned promise, but she most likely would have wanted Jon's identity kept hidden forever, not until such a time as he could claim his birthright (although she certainly could have wanted him on the IT, I suppose). We also don't know if Ned and Howland discussed the promise/Ned's plans for Jon's future/Ned's feelings on ever telling Jon the truth. Howland and Ned haven't seen each other since the rebellion, and I don't think that's something they would have discussed in a letter. That leaves Howland to decide what to do with what he knows, and I think his choice will be tied into whatever is ultimately best for the Starks and the North.

Above all else, Howland seems completely loyal to serving the Starks. He sends his children to help "free" Bran, the winged wolf, and aid in his instruction in warging and the old ways of the First Men. Jojen told Bran the wolves will return, and I think Howland is doing what he can to ensure that future comes to pass.

I honestly don't think Howland will be the one to drop the bomb on Jon about his identity. Hearing something that life-altering from a complete stranger would be very difficult to believe, so I think the reveal is going to come through Bran. Bran is going to have the ability to see into the past and most likely to share his visions with his siblings via their warg bond, and because the Reeds are such an important part of Bran's story, he will be able to better understand how all of the past events fit together (he's the one who got the background info on the Tourney at Harenhall and how Howland plays into that after all) to explain it all to Jon clearly with visible proof through visions. Jon might meet Howland at some point, but I think Jon will already know the truth by then. 

 

[warginfortheweekend]

Howland could shed light on what happened at the God’s Eye, tourney at Harrenhal and Robert’s Rebellion.  A word feast. A horn of cornucopia. <drooling>  If Howland shows up whose POV is he going to be in?

 

Great question! I think it's got to be Davos, Theon, or UnJon

[White Ravens]

Howland Reed knows about moving castles.  He also knows about killing frogs and fish with a forked spear, how to ensnare foes and prey with the toss of a net.  He knows mud-lore, guerrilla warfare, how to hone a bronze knife and how to poison the tip of an arrow.  He knows about the Green Men on the Isle of Faces and spent some time there as a young man.  He knows about tourneys and was likely at the Great Tourney of Harrenhal on the day the smiles died.  He has first hand experience of warfare and was a companion to his liege lord Eddard Stark and he would likely have learned about battle strategy and combat.  He is the only known survivor of the events that took place at the Tower of Joy and likely knows more about what happened on that fateful day than anyone alive.

[Curled Finger]

Welcome Dame, it's always good to see you in these interesting little places.   To your ifs and buts:  That's part of the fascination with HR for me.   Will he reveal (what he knows of) the will?   As I say he has info that trumps this info.   Big dramatic game changing info.  I have this begrudging semi hope that LSH will crown Jon or even be the one to give him the kiss.   I know that's so lame, but that turning of the crown really bothers me.   Wouldn't that be perfect irony.   I don't know if HR is working with the BWB but I have absolute faith that the BWB has some long reaching arms and see no reason a connection couldn't have been made here.   As to the will it's also bugged me that Robb sent his emissaries to the Neck.   Why the Neck?   Because it's safe?  What?   I get it that the marshes move and ravens can't fly in, but it's curious that he would send his people to a place they may not even know how to get to if Robb was unable to get message to or from HR.   As to Jamie finding out that Jon is Rhaegar's son, as always your reasoning is so sweet and sentimental and would really give a boost to Jamie's sense of identity.   Good on you.  In that Jamie wasn't permitted to play at war he may very well not know who HR is.   And I like the idea that a character in universe gets to be stumped about an identity instead of me for a change.   

 

[Curled Finger]

Ha!   As you can see I'm having a terrible time replying.   This finally showed up after 4 exits.   Sheesh.   

[Clegane'sPup]

Welcome Dame, it's always good to see you in these interesting little places.   To your ifs and buts:  That's part of the fascination with HR for me.   Will he reveal (what he knows of) the will?   As I say he has info that trumps this info.   Big dramatic game changing info.  I have this begrudging semi hope that LSH will crown Jon or even be the one to give him the kiss.   I know that's so lame, but that turning of the crown really bothers me.   Wouldn't that be perfect irony.   I don't know if HR is working with the BWB but I have absolute faith that the BWB has some long reaching arms and see no reason a connection couldn't have been made here.   As to the will it's also bugged me that Robb sent his emissaries to the Neck.   Why the Neck?   Because it's safe?  What?   I get it that the marshes move and ravens can't fly in, but it's curious that he would send his people to a place they may not even know how to get to if Robb was unable to get message to or from HR.   As to Jamie finding out that Jon is Rhaegar's son, as always your reasoning is so sweet and sentimental and would really give a boost to Jamie's sense of identity.   Good on you.  In that Jamie wasn't permitted to play at war he may very well not know who HR is.   And I like the idea that a character in universe gets to be stumped about an identity instead of me for a change.   

 

All righty now. There are some serious problems going on. Take a look through this thread. Clocks are off. Posts are missing. Quotes are not working properly.  Or maybe I have lost my tiny grey cells and they may never return. Have I entered the Twilight Zone.