Colonel Green Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said: to take it further, show Sansa seems to be completely oblivious that Littlefinger had something to do with her father's downfall and execution. Like, why was he awarded Harenhal and the Riverlands? He was awarded those things for the Tyrell alliance (though in the show I don't believe he is Lord of the Riverlands). She knows, much like the book version, that Littlefinger was on the Lannister side, but nothing about his specific role in bringing Ned the Goldcloaks. The show has many, many flaws (many of which involve Littlefinger and Sansa), but that's not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabellaVidal Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 18 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: Max VonSydow I think will be a waste in S6. His talent is unbelievable, but I feel they are going to strip Bloodraven down to kindly little bits and do everyone a disservice. Hopefully I am wrong... but we should all know better by now I agree. They don't need a cast of enormously well-known actors to do, what are in fact, small parts. (Alexander Siddig, Ciaran Hinds, Stephen Dillane etc.) All they need are talented character actors who fill the role without draining the budget. Particularly if they are taking those characters no where. It would also have been so much better for all of us if they hadn't cast actors they love so much that they feel the need to white-washing their characters at the expense of other key players' stories. (All the Lannisters except Jaime who clearly never develops in the books at all. Sheesh.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Colonel Green said: He was awarded those things for the Tyrell alliance (though in the show I don't believe he is Lord of the Riverlands). She knows, much like the book version, that Littlefinger was on the Lannister side, but nothing about his specific role in bringing Ned the Goldcloaks. The show has many, many flaws (many of which involve Littlefinger and Sansa), but that's not one of them. Littlefinger still rose to greater power right after, no excuse. Show Sansa is being dumbed down by the show runners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 And she's two years older. A hardened woman, no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said: Littlefinger still rose to greater power right after, no excuse. Show Sansa is being dumbed down by the show runners. How did he rise, exactly? He had the same job as before. I don't see how Sansa in the show is less aware of that than the book version, who has come to see Baelish as an ally (both immediately after her leaving KL, and more coercively during her time at the Eyrie/Gates of the Moon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabellaVidal Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said: Littlefinger still rose to greater power right after, no excuse. Show Sansa is being dumbed down by the show runners. There is also no show-equivalence to Sansa's doubts about LF. In the Vale, she thinks about how the Hound and Tyrion rescued her in times of distress while LF never lifted even a little finger to come to her aid then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Colonel Green said: How did he rise, exactly? He had the same job as before. I don't see how Sansa in the show is less aware of that than the book version, who has come to see Baelish as an ally (both immediately after her leaving KL, and more coercively during her time at the Eyrie/Gates of the Moon). Lets cut to the chase shall we, do you think Sansa is wise or unwise to trust Littlefinger? Just on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 They hired big names because of that: because of the names. Next season they could say "We're hiring Meryl Streep!", and she's just prostitute #23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, ArabellaVidal said: There is also no show-equivalence to Sansa's doubts about LF. In the Vale, she thinks about how the Hound and Tyrion rescued her in times of distress while LF never lifted even a little finger to come to her aid then. Actually, in Season 4 the show played her as much more coldly distrusting of him from the very beginning than was the case in the books, where she initially took him pretty much at face value. Which only makes Season 5 make less sense by comparison, but there you have it. 4 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said: Lets cut to the chase shall we, do you think Sansa is wise or unwise to trust Littlefinger? Just on the show. The way they wrote their relationship in Season 5 makes no sense to me based on what had been set up prior and what they were evidently intending to convey. But I don't think that has anything to do with her supposedly exhibiting less knowledge of his activities with the Lannisters; I see no real difference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, Colonel Green said: Actually, in Season 4 the show played her as much more coldly distrusting of him from the very beginning. The way they wrote their relationship in Season 5 makes no sense to me based on what had been set up prior and what they were evidently intending to convey. But I don't think that has anything to do with her supposedly exhibiting less knowledge of his activities with the Lannisters; I see no real difference there. Well, then, can we agree that the big reveal to her at Moat Cailin when Littlefinger tells her about the marriage to Ramsay adds up to what Cogman said about her making a choice and trusting Litttlefinger "she sees the logic in this" or was she really being forced to go? The shoiw runners say that she had full agency. I think she felt she had no choice but hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabellaVidal Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, Colonel Green said: How did he rise, exactly? He had the same job as before. I don't see how Sansa in the show is less aware of that than the book version, who has come to see Baelish as an ally (both immediately after her leaving KL, and more coercively during her time at the Eyrie/Gates of the Moon). There is more doubt in her about him in the books. One of the most significant moments is when she rejects the pomegranate he tries to feed her in the Fingers. In the show, she is immediately his ally when she doesn't need to be. LF has her in a vice after Lysa's murder in the books. In the show, she doesn't even take advantage of the fact that he has no plans in the aftermath of this event and she doesn't really have to fall in with him. She can simply stay in the Vale. She knows he is part of the plot that frames her for Joff's murder. But what? How can she trust him? She reveals her identity to the Vale lords and then just leaves because LF is so trustworthy and in her debt? She didn't learn that lesson from Dontos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 1 minute ago, A Ghost of Someone said: Well, then, can we agree that the big reveal to her at Moat Cailin when Littlefinger tells her about the marriage to Ramsay adds up to what Cogman said about her making a choice and trusting Litttlefinger "she sees the logic in this" or was she really being forced to go? The shoiw runners say that she had full agency. That whole scenario doesn't make any sense from a dramatic perspective, in terms of what they supposedly intended to convey. But again, that has nothing to do with her relative knowledge of his involvement with the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 1 minute ago, ArabellaVidal said: There is more doubt in her about him in the books. One of the most significant moments is when she rejects the pomegranate he tries to feed her in the Fingers. Er, no, the pomegranate thing is purely meta-textual. Sansa herself has no idea about pomegranate symbolism; she rejects it because it's too messy, and thinks in the same scene that Baelish is being extremely kind to her, with no suspicion of his motives. Quote How can she trust him? She reveals her identity to the Vale lords and then just leaves because LF is so trustworthy and in her debt? As I've said in the past, the way things are set up in 408 and then played in 501 onward are really not reconcilable (the former suggests she's wary of him and basically aligned with him out of cold calculation; a few glowers aside, Season 5 only really makes sense if she trusts him implicitly, the way "Alayne Stone" has come to in the books). But that has nothing to do with her knowledge about his working for the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 6 minutes ago, Colonel Green said: That whole scenario doesn't make any sense from a dramatic perspective, in terms of what they supposedly intended to convey. But again, that has nothing to do with her relative knowledge of his involvement with the Lannisters. well, we disagree then. I think there is enough for her to know on the show that he helped her family's enemies. Then again, she knelt and was stripping for the Imp at their wedding until he said "no". Quite the opposite from the books. Show Sansa is stupid and back stabbing to her own family. A submissive to people who should be her enemies and marrying a Bolton took the cake and they took her innocence. orchestrated by Littlefinger no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said: well, we disagree then. I think there is enough for her to know on the show that he helped her family's enemies. She does know that, just like she knows it in the books. The two are not any different in that respect. He was on the Lannister side in AGOT, and she's always known that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, Colonel Green said: She does know that, just like she knows it in the books. The two are not any different in that respect. He was on the Lannister side in AGOT, and she's always known that. In the books she is suffering some form of ptsd, show wise there is no excuse, especially when she saved him in the Vale, he lured her our of the Vale in season 5 and got her to Moat Cailin before realizing he duped her. Then, she agrees to go rather than say no, take me back and as said earlier, he framed her for Joff's murder and she is wanted by Cersie because of what he did. So, why she trusted him to marry the Boltons and whatever else he tells her to do in the show is beyond rediculouse. It makes her look stupid and a traitor to her family's memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said: In the books she is suffering some form of ptsd, show wise there is no excuse, especially when she saved him in the Vale, he lured her our of the Vale in season 5 and got her to Moat Cailin before realizing he duped her. Then, she agrees to go rather than say no, take me back and as said earlier, he framed her for Joff's murder and she is wanted by Cersie because of what he did. So, why she trusted him to marry the Boltons and whatever else he tells her to do in the show is beyond rediculouse. It makes her look stupid and a traitor to her family's memory. I've already said that how things played out in Season 5 doesn't make much sense, but I really fail to see how this really involves Sansa being less aware of Baelish's past actions. Book Sansa thought Baelish was her pal and had no qualms about siding with him in ASOS, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Just now, Colonel Green said: I've already said that how things played out in Season 5 doesn't make much sense, but I really fail to see how this really involves Sansa being less aware of Baelish's past actions. Book Sansa thought Baelish was her pal and had no qualms about siding with him in ASOS, for instance. Well, unlike the books, show Sansa knows that Roose Bolton stabbed Robb through the heart but she does not know that Littlefinger sided with Cersie against her father. Also, she then taunts Ramsay with being a Bastard legitimized by another Bastard, Tommen. Nothing makes sense with show Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 1 minute ago, A Ghost of Someone said: Well, unlike the books, show Sansa knows that Roose Bolton stabbed Robb through the heart but she does not know that Littlefinger sided with Cersie against her father. And? Her not hearing anything about the events in the throne room has often struck people as a contrivance in the books, but nevertheless, we have no idea how Sansa got the specific details in the show about the Red Wedding. Since Littlefinger knows, perhaps he told her. That's not an inconsistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Please don't debate him here. There are other threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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