What could have eddard expected if Brandon lived?

[Arrow of the Morning]

Not so much.

As a second son, he would inherit nothing, may be some chests with silver, in the best scenario, he would receive a keep and some few lands, not much more. His prospects of marriage would be limited. His friendship with Jon Arryn and Robert could give him some lands or a better prospect of marriage.

[grinny]

3 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

Lady dustin was Brandon's lover, isn't it a little bit awkward if Ned married her?

I know this does not matter that much, but still it sounds strange.

Plus we know a soiled daughter is hard to find a good match, like Delena and Lysa.

Do you think Ned would accept this?

 

 

 

That's maybe exactly why he has to marry her...

To clear up the mistake Brandon made.

Someone brought up what would have happened if the rebellion happened without Richard and Brandon killed.

I think there would be a reasonable chance that Ned would get Dragonstone. It wasn't given to Stannis just as an slite, but because Robert needed someone completely loyal and strong (Renly was just too young). So why not give it to his brother in heart?

[The Mountain That Flies]

8 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

Lady dustin was Brandon's lover, isn't it a little bit awkward if Ned married her?

I know this does not matter that much, but still it sounds strange.

Plus we know a soiled daughter is hard to find a good match, like Delena and Lysa.

Do you think Ned would accept this?

 

 

 

Well, two things come to mind;

First, Ned doesn't need to accept her. Most kids are betrothed by the efforts of their parents, and their personal preferences don't always factor into it. Neither Brandon not Lyanna chose their respective partners, so there's no real reason to believe Ned would have been given a choice in his.

Second, while we don't have conclusive evidence either way my impression was that Barbary and Brandon's relationship was not common knowledge. Both probably told a small number of friends, but if there had been any kind of scandal about it she probably would have said so to Reek.

[Tarellen]

23 hours ago, Lord Ravenstark said:

 

But weren't most real life medieval kings expected to give there younger sons and brothers significant estates? Or at least the ones that don't go cellabit? Sure it gives chance for pretenders but isn't it better to give your brothers land so they stay loyal to you?

Yes, that's what I said. A farm, a keep, a job as advisor. Not nothing, but not too much.

I can see the lordly Starks being stingy with supporting there younger brothers but what about blood royal Starks? Real life blood royals got impressive land holding to support themselves. Would a blood royal stark just settle for a keep and a farm?

[Tarellen]

23 hours ago, Lord Ravenstark said:

 

But weren't most real life medieval kings expected to give there younger sons and brothers significant estates? Or at least the ones that don't go cellabit? Sure it gives chance for pretenders but isn't it better to give your brothers land so they stay loyal to you?

Yes, that's what I said. A farm, a keep, a job as advisor. Not nothing, but not too much.

I can see the lordly Starks being stingy with supporting there younger brothers but what about blood royal Starks? Real life blood royals got impressive land holding to support themselves. Would a blood royal stark just settle for a keep and a farm?

[Tarellen]

On February 2, 2016 at 5:09 PM, purple-eyes said:

Yeah, but still many of them lived for quite some years.

For example, Maegor should get some lands as only brother, then we have those children of Jaehaerys. Daemon. viserys II, sons of Daeron, sons of maekar, sons of Egg, etc.

It looks like they all live in court and do not want to have a separate castle to rule.

But without land in a feudal society as westeros there without power except during the dragon times. And more importantly have very limited income. Your implying they chose that kind of lifestyle. That makes no sense! Also Martian was very unrealistic with the blood royals if they have no land

[TheSpottedCat]

Are we sure Ned was the one who got her pregnant? Brandon seems a more likely candidate. If she was pregnant, because we can't be sure.

If she was, indeed, pregnant, Ned might marry her since he had a crush on her and to protect her honour, even if the baby was Brandon's. Or he could have taken the black. It's quite common for the superfluous sons of Northern houses.

[Sydney Mae]

If Brandon had lived?

He would marry Cat to seal the alliance and soon after continue to bang other women on the side, including possibly Lyanna and Barbrey.

[The Dragon King]

8 minutes ago, Sydney Mae said:

If Brandon had lived?

He would marry Cat to seal the alliance and soon after continue to bang other women on the side, including possibly Lyanna and Barbrey.

 

Brandon Stark would bang his sister?  He's a Stark, not a Tararyen.

[Tarellen]

On February 2, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Ser Hyle said:

If he's got Ashara Dayne what else does he need!? Amirite fellas, amirite!

Kidding aside, I hope for Ned's sake that she wouldn't become too accustomed to the finer things in life like Lynesse Hightower did. It would be interesting to see how a man like Ned would deal with a situation like that. I highly doubt he'd be caught selling slaves... but what would he do?

Hope for a generous estate or stipend from brother?

[purple-eyes]

44 minutes ago, The Dragon King said:

 

Brandon Stark would bang his sister?  He's a Stark, not a Tararyen.

There is theory that jon snow is product of Brandon and lyanna. 

That is why Brandon was so angry at rheagar. 

[Tarellen]

On February 2, 2016 at 6:41 PM, King of the Narrow Sea said:

Swap Bran for Ned, and Robb for Brandon.

But how much of a holding could be expected for a man who's basically royalty in the north?

 

On February 2, 2016 at 6:46 PM, purple-eyes said:

This sounds like a too-grand plan for a bastard in the given scenario. almost like a ruler of half North or another LC of new watch.

I would say this may go to Bran or Rickon if this will exist. Not Jon. maybe a legitimized jon, but Ned seems to have no interest in legitimizing him. Probably he does not want to create trouble for his own children as well as Cat.

The reason of "first son gets everything but second gets almost nothing" is that this will maintain the integrity of their estate and property.

Otherwise after a few generations, the single realm will become many small realms and in the end, get a lot of trouble and internal wars.

SO I think no matter what, Robb will rule directly over the whole North.

And Bran, Jon and Rickon will stay in his "court" and serve him, not become a very independent lord.

 

Yeah but there basically royalty in the north. So unless the Starks got stingy when they lost there crown they should expect generous grants of land. Of course in this universe the targaryans don't act like real life royalty and give there younger sons land holdings.

 

On February 2, 2016 at 6:56 PM, JLE said:

I think you're misunderstanding. Whoever was in charge of the project of repopulating the North would still answer to Winterfell and consider them the overlord: they would not be equal to Robb, but would be in a position similar to the Karstarks, the Umbers, the Boltons, the Glovers. Not a mean position for a younger brother to find themselves in, and certainly better than being a courtier: but it would not diminish, or rival, the lordship of Winterfell which Robb would hold in his father's name.

Staying in court, of course, would be an option, but a lesser option, one to be taken only if you really can't find another worthy duty for the younger son to do.

Similarly, younger sons and descendants of the British monarch end up with various titles - Duke of York (Prince Andrew), Earl of Wessex (Prince Edward). In the modern day these are empty titles, but centuries ago, they would have meant something - without detracting from the position of the eldest son, Prince Charles, as Heir Apparent and future King.

King Henry VIII made his bastard, Henry Fitzroy, the Duke of Richmond. And, after Anne Boleyn fell out of favour leaving Henry with two daughters (by different wives) but no son, one of the options he considered (at the time when Anne was merely out of favour and there was a chance she would simply be sidelined or shunted off to a nunnery) was adopting Fitzroy into the royal family, although he never did so. In the event, Fitzroy died young, shortly before the execution of Anne Boleyn: and by then Henry was already preparing to marry Jane Seymour, who eventually gave him a legitimate son, Edward VI.

In the real world, that's one thing for the nobility have historically done with younger sons. Others would end up in the military, in the church, or sent to university to study a subject fit for a gentleman such as law or politics.

True very true. It would be realistic for younger sons of kings in all but name to ecpect large landholdings

 

On February 3, 2016 at 10:36 PM, StarkofWinterfell said:

Look at the Baratheon brothers.

Both Stannis and Renly had titles and castles and armies. 

Yeah but there the brothers of a king they should ecpect large land holdings. Mabye the great house are stingy since losing there crowns.

[Red Man Racey]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 10:36 PM, StarkofWinterfell said:

Look at the Baratheon brothers.

Both Stannis and Renly had titles and castles and armies. 

And if Robert was still the Lord of Storm's End and the Targaryens still held Dragonstone for the crown prince then where would Stannis and Renly have gone? They would be in the same boat as Ned.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

On 2/2/2016 at 2:38 PM, Lord Ravenstark said:

Hm, the sides make it obviously clear Ned and Ashara were infatuated to each other, Ashara appears with a child latter and when she finds Ned is married she kills herself. Never mind there is a huge chance the child is Jon. Even the people who believe in other theories accept it as a possibility, saying it is a red herring. Even then, it is perfectly reasonable to believe Ashara and Ned had sex and had a child.

So, Ned keeps Lyanna's secret at his own great cost (his honor and lying to Cat and Robert), only for the reader to find out that Ned really did have a bastard (so his honor wasn't ruined after, because he already ruined it?) and he let that bastard fend for themselves and his mistress kill herself... but Ned only thinks about how hard keeping Lyanna's secret is and not about the other fucked up thing he did to his actual bastard and mistress?

 

So Ned is officially the second biggest douche bag in the story?

[purple-eyes]

9 minutes ago, King Viserys Targaryen IV said:

So, Ned keeps Lyanna's secret at his own great cost (his honor and lying to Cat and Robert), only for the reader to find out that Ned really did have a bastard (so his honor wasn't ruined after, because he already ruined it?) and he let that bastard fend for themselves and his mistress kill herself... but Ned only thinks about how hard keeping Lyanna's secret is and not about the other fucked up thing he did to his actual bastard and mistress?

 

So Ned is officially the second biggest douche bag in the story?

I am not sure about other things, but if Ned and ashara indeed had affair and a stillborn daughter, Ned may feel too painful to even think about it. 

[Lord Ravenstark]

Hm, the sides make it obviously clear Ned and Ashara were infatuated to each other, Ashara appears with a child latter and when she finds Ned is married she kills herself. Never mind there is a huge chance the child is Jon. Even the people who believe in other theories accept it as a possibility, saying it is a red herring. Even then, it is perfectly reasonable to believe Ashara and Ned had sex and had a child.

So, Ned keeps Lyanna's secret at his own great cost (his honor and lying to Cat and Robert), only for the reader to find out that Ned really did have a bastard (so his honor wasn't ruined after, because he already ruined it?) and he let that bastard fend for themselves and his mistress kill herself... but Ned only thinks about how hard keeping Lyanna's secret is and not about the other fucked up thing he did to his actual bastard and mistress?

 

So Ned is officially the second biggest douche bag in the story?

First, which secret? We don't know nothing about the secret, or how it would impact in Ned's marital life. For all we know, the secret could have been "Rhaegar and Arthur were lovers". He didn't keep the secret and told it to Ashara, is dismay for her brother being homosexual (do we even know Ashara and her views on homosexuality) jumps of a bridge. Ned is tormented forever because he failed to keep the secret. Do we know if Ned failed to keep the secret? Do we know the secret is anything important? No, we don't. Stop making it seems like you are the knower of all truth. Jon is Lyanna's bastard is a valid theory but it has as much base as Ned and Ashara. What if Ned is a douchebag, do you know what happened? Do you have actual evidence based on text, written lines and not extrapolations from what could have happened? God, that got old years ago, stop trying to make a story sound ridiculous because it only makes you look ridiculous.

We are all walking on the dark, and your lightbulb shines no brighter than everyone's else. Your opinion is no more correct, right or well sounding than anyone else's.

[Grimbart]

As far as we know, second born sons can't claim anything. Bad luck. It entirely depends on their father/brother. They can remain part of the household (like many Freys),  get castles (Renly), be allowed to start a new house (a cadet branch), and if there is no better place they could join the nightwatch or become a maester. Sometimes they might have to marry out of political reasons. Since the sons of lords get a good education, they can serve other lords (like blackfish).

If his father or brother didn't intend to marry him off, Ned would likely have served house Tully or Baratheon. Or he could have taken the black.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

4 minutes ago, Lord Ravenstark said:

So, Ned keeps Lyanna's secret at his own great cost (his honor and lying to Cat and Robert), only for the reader to find out that Ned really did have a bastard (so his honor wasn't ruined after, because he already ruined it?) and he let that bastard fend for themselves and his mistress kill herself... but Ned only thinks about how hard keeping Lyanna's secret is and not about the other fucked up thing he did to his actual bastard and mistress?

 

So Ned is officially the second biggest douche bag in the story?

 

First, which secret? We don't know nothing about the secret, or how it would impact in Ned's marital life. For all we know, the secret could have been "Rhaegar and Arthur were lovers". He didn't keep the secret and told it to Ashara, is dismay for her brother being homosexual (do we even know Ashara and her views on homosexuality) jumps of a bridge. Ned is tormented forever because he failed to keep the secret. Do we know if Ned failed to keep the secret? Do we know the secret is anything important? No, we don't. Stop making it seems like you are the knower of all truth. Jon is Lyanna's bastard is a valid theory but it has as much base as Ned and Ashara. What if Ned is a douchebag, do you know what happened? Do you have actual evidence based on text, written lines and not extrapolations from what could have happened? God, that got old years ago, stop trying to make a story sound ridiculous because it only makes you look ridiculous.

We are all walking on the dark, and your lightbulb shines no brighter than everyone's else. Your opinion is no more correct, right or well sounding than anyone else's.

Ashra and Ned = Jon has as much basis  R+l=J? Are you serious?

 

[The Commentator]

20 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

There is theory that jon snow is product of Brandon and lyanna. 

That is why Brandon was so angry at rheagar. 

I have run across that theory on numerous forums.  I wonder what hidden powers Jon could have inherited from such a union.  His skinchanging ability would have been concentrated, though he is no Greenseer.  He will not ride dragons but he can skinchange weak minded people, like Sansa and Robyn Arryn.

[purple-eyes]

9 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

I have run across that theory on numerous forums.  I wonder what hidden powers Jon could have inherited from such a union.  His skinchanging ability would have been concentrated, though he is no Greenseer.  He will not ride dragons but he can skinchange weak minded people, like Sansa and Robyn Arryn.

Yeah, Rickard and Lyarra are cousins. brandon and lyanna are siblings.

So you can see Jon must be very powerful.