“A cloth dragon on poles,” Dany explained. “Mummers use them in their follies, to give the heroes something to fight.”

[Lost Melnibonean]

33 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Indeed but that's because he was trying to get Aerys into a slow burn and not completely fuck himself over until Aegon was in a position to take power.

RR is a result of accidentally pressing fast forward 

Remember that the Targ dynasty would be ruling over Westeros today if Varys didn't tell him that Rhaegar was trying to depose him

Aegon, no matter who is true parents are, is not old enough to have been the ulterior motive behind Illyrio's scheme before Robert's Rebellion. 

I do agree that Eddard moved too fast and Robert was too strong (as Pycelle pleads to Tyrion) for Illyrio to capitalize at that time. 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

25 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Aegon, no matter who is true parents are, is not old enough to have been the ulterior motive behind Illyrio's scheme before Robert's Rebellion. 

I do agree that Eddard moved too fast and Robert was too strong (as Pycelle pleads to Tyrion) for Illyrio to capitalize at that time. 

What makes you think he wasn't old enough? The original Aegon was already a year old during the actual RR.

[PCK]

Is there enough time left to cover a second Dance Of Dragons and the White Walker invasion? Also, could "your dragon is too far away to save you" be a hint of Aegon dying at the hands of a White Walker?

[Company of the Cat]

Things I think can potentially happen backed by no evidence whatsoever

1. Aegon/fAegon winning over most people in war-torn Westeros as a potential Targ saviour

2. Dany being despised/feared/misunderstood by Westerosi 

3. Dany or Aegon pontentially going mad (don't think this goes well with Dany's arc though) so that it's easier to choose between them

4. Aegon being illegitimate (but who knows about his legitimacy apart from like, Varys and his conspirators?) 

5. Dany and Aegon forming an alliance (Tyrion didn't let this happen. Dany and Aegon would probably be too proud to actually share rule. But maybe in the face of the Others threat, this could work?) 

6. Dany helping Westerosi defeat Others by using her dragons regardless of whether she's loved or hated by the people. If she's hated - she'd be the misunderstood hero - kind of like Jaime during the sack of KL. Maybe she'll put herself in danger or sacrifice herself somehow? I dunno..

7. Another Dance ( but too many wars have already been fought and we havent even started with the Others yet. But a Dance parallel is quite a popular theory) 

8. One/both of them would possibly die in some battle

9. Both will be outshined by/alligned with Jon (if his alleged parenthood is revealed) 

10. Dany staying behind to rule Slaver's Bay (she defeated slavery but that in itself is not enough because she left chaos in her wake. So maybe she'd just reform the system and install a systematic ruling there?) 

[Paxter Redwyne]

2 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Indeed but that's because he was trying to get Aerys into a slow burn and not completely fuck himself over until Aegon was in a position to take power.

RR is a result of accidentally pressing fast forward 

Remember that the Targ dynasty would be ruling over Westeros today if Varys didn't tell him that Rhaegar was trying to depose him

Varys is targaryen loyalist. He did everything what was in his job as spymaster. You can't blame him for aerys paranoia, as his paranoia is one of the reasons why he have hired varys.

2 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

GRRM isn't anti-war. He's frequently come out and said that there are wars where he would've gone out to fight for and worth fighting like World War II. But that wasteful wars like World War One were more indicative of real wars in history.

World War II was worth fighting? While first war was caused by assasination of habsburgian heir, second one was more pointless war. Whole second world war was caused by sick ideology of nazi germans.

[WSmith84]

7 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

World War II was worth fighting? While first war was caused by assasination of habsburgian heir, second one was more pointless war. Whole second world war was caused by sick ideology of nazi germans.

I assume when people say WWII was worth fighting, they mean from the Allied point of view.

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

What makes you think he wasn't old enough? The original Aegon was already a year old during the actual RR.

Well, if our noble lad is the son of Rhaegar, then restoring the Targaryen to the throne was not Illyrio's ulterior motive before Robert's Rebellion. 

And if Aegon is the Blackfyre or a Brightflame or just a pisswater prince, then he'vs likely younger than Rhaegar's son would be. Rhaegar's son would be at least 19. But Tyrion puts his age at 15 or 16 or there abouts. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Varys is targaryen loyalist. He did everything what was in his job as spymaster. You can't blame him for aerys paranoia, as his paranoia is one of the reasons why he have hired varys.

Ser Barristan once told me that the rot in King Aerys's reign began with Varys.

Davos IV, Storm 36

He saw traitors everywhere, and Varys was always there to point out any he might have missed.

Jaime V, Storm 37

With Varys whispering in his ear, King Aerys became convinced that his son was conspiring to depose him. . .

The Kingbreaker, Dance 67

[Lord_Ravenstone]

2 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Varys is targaryen loyalist. He did everything what was in his job as spymaster. You can't blame him for aerys paranoia, as his paranoia is one of the reasons why he have hired varys.

World War II was worth fighting? While first war was caused by assasination of habsburgian heir, second one was more pointless war. Whole second world war was caused by sick ideology of nazi germans.

But Varys isn't a Targaryen loyalist. If he was then why would he have started poisoning Aerys' ear and increased his paranoia?  Even Barristan calls out that the rot in Aerys' reign started with Varys. And if he was really thinking about the good of the realm he would've let Rhaegar depose Aerys.

And furthermore, there just no way that his Aegon is legit. So if he was a Targ loyalist he should be sticking with Daenerys not his creation.

GRRM is saying that the Second World War was worth fighting for from America's side.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Well, if our noble lad is the son of Rhaegar, then restoring the Targaryen to the throne was not Illyrio's ulterior motive before Robert's Rebellion. 

And if Aegon is the Blackfyre or a Brightflame or just a pisswater prince, then he'vs likely younger than Rhaegar's son would be. Rhaegar's son would be at least 19. But Tyrion puts his age at 15 or 16 or there abouts. 

Tyrion is also bad at guessing ages. He thought a 14 year old Jon was 12.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

3 hours ago, PCK said:

Is there enough time left to cover a second Dance Of Dragons and the White Walker invasion? Also, could "your dragon is too far away to save you" be a hint of Aegon dying at the hands of a White Walker?

There is because they're going to be happening at the same time. The WW invasion might actually start before the Second Dance of Dragons.

[Lost Melnibonean]

54 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Tyrion is also bad at guessing ages. He thought a 14 year old Jon was 12.

Are you sure Tyrion was misjudging Jon's age? Could he have been toying with him? Reread Tyrion II in Game for context. Jon was asking Tyrion why he reads so much and Tyrion set about to educate him. He started by asking him, "You're what, about 12?" Tyrion was likely being sarcastic, taking him down a peg so to speak. But if you disagree then maybe Tyrion should get a pass anyway since Joffrey was 12 but taller than Jon and Robb. 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Are you sure Tyrion was misjudging Jon's age? Could he have been toying with him? Reread Tyrion II in Game for context. Jon was asking Tyrion why he reads so much and Tyrion set about to educate him. He started by asking him, "You're what, about 12?" Tyrion was likely being sarcastic, taking him down a peg so to speak. But if you disagree then maybe Tyrion should get a pass anyway since Joffrey was 12 but taller than Jon and Robb. 

I mean because Tyrion never physically developed like usual people it's likely that he's bad at guessing what age people are 

[Paxter Redwyne]

7 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

But Varys isn't a Targaryen loyalist. If he was then why would he have started poisoning Aerys' ear and increased his paranoia?  Even Barristan calls out that the rot in Aerys' reign started with Varys. And if he was really thinking about the good of the realm he would've let Rhaegar depose Aerys.

And furthermore, there just no way that his Aegon is legit. So if he was a Targ loyalist he should be sticking with Daenerys not his creation.

GRRM is saying that the Second World War was worth fighting for from America's side.

Barristan opinion is really biased. He disliked everyone who wasn't as honorable as him. And noone likes varys because he is master of whispers. Varys was rather loyal to reigning targaryen king than realm. And i am not sure if man who started robert's rebellion would be a good king.

 

 

 

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

7 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Barristan opinion is really biased. He disliked everyone who wasn't as honorable as him. And noone likes varys because he is master of whispers. Varys was rather loyal to reigning targaryen king than realm. And i am not sure if man who started robert's rebellion would be a good king.

It's not just Barristan; it's Jaime too. 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

9 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Barristan opinion is really biased. He disliked everyone who wasn't as honorable as him. And noone likes varys because he is master of whispers. Varys was rather loyal to reigning targaryen king than realm. And i am not sure if man who started robert's rebellion would be a good king.

 

 

 

 

It's Jaime's opinion too. 

Rhaegar would certainly be a much better king than Aerys or do you deny that? 

Do you think Faegon is actually real or something ?

[Paxter Redwyne]

4 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

It's Jaime's opinion too. 

Rhaegar would certainly be a much better king than Aerys or do you deny that? 

Do you think Faegon is actually real or something ?

I talked about barristan being biased towards varys, not aerys.

I do not argue that rhaegar is worse than aerys, because, he is not.

 

About Aegon: I am not sure about is aegon true or not, but i hope is not blackfyre, or at least that he is unaware of it. Blackafyre's cause has been lost nearly hundred year ago and i doubt that people would follow him if he would be blackfyre (except golden company, but there are only 10 thousands of them and golden company alone cant secure throne for aegon)

[Lost Melnibonean]

9 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

I talked about barristan being biased towards varys, not aerys.

I do not argue that rhaegar is worse than aerys, because, he is not.

 

About Aegon: I am not sure about is aegon true or not, but i hope is not blackfyre, or at least that he is unaware of it. Blackafyre's cause has been lost nearly hundred year ago and i doubt that people would follow him if he would be blackfyre (except golden company, but there are only 10 thousands of them and golden company alone cant secure throne for aegon)

That would be the point of holding him out as Rhaegar's son, to get Dorne and Targaryen loyalists, as well as the Golden Company's friends in the Reach. And wedding Daenerys to Drogo was to get Dothraki too. 

[Isobel Harper]

On 4/19/2016 at 7:48 AM, Queenstorm said:

something about this post got at my memory, wasnt Aegon on a pole boat? So he could be the mummers dragon (not a targaryen) that varys and illyrio are using to give the people of westeros (the heroes) something to fight for? Just a thought 

So a mummer's dragon on poles.

The Shy Maid was tied up in one of the meaner sections of the long, chaotic riverfront, between a listing poleboat that had not left the pier in years and the gaily painted mummers' barge. The mummers were a loud and lively lot, always quoting speeches at each other and drunk more oft than not. - ADwD, The Lost Lord

Per a SSM, "In the Wars of the Roses... there was one Lord who had been prophesied he would die beneath the walls of a certain castle... so he never came anywhere near that castle. ... However, he was killed ...and when they found him dead he was outside of an inn whose sign was the picture of that castle!"  I almost wonder, are we reading too much into this "mummer's dragon" prophecy?  Could the vision Daenerys saw in the HotU simply be this event, and she just interpreted to be an enemy?

[Lost Melnibonean]

28 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

So a mummer's dragon on poles.

The Shy Maid was tied up in one of the meaner sections of the long, chaotic riverfront, between a listing poleboat that had not left the pier in years and the gaily painted mummers' barge. The mummers were a loud and lively lot, always quoting speeches at each other and drunk more oft than not. - ADwD, The Lost Lord

Per a SSM, "In the Wars of the Roses... there was one Lord who had been prophesied he would die beneath the walls of a certain castle... so he never came anywhere near that castle. ... However, he was killed ...and when they found him dead he was outside of an inn whose sign was the picture of that castle!"  I almost wonder, are we reading too much into this "mummer's dragon" prophecy?  Could the vision Daenerys saw in the HotU simply be this event, and she just interpreted to be an enemy?

Now you sound like the folks who say the savage giant-slaying maid prophecy was fulfilled when Sansa ripped Robert's doll.