6x01: D & D cleaning up after themselves

[Xcorpyo001]

2 minutes ago, Clash said:

I notice you just take a random commoner and present that as the same thing. But conveniently leaving out the fact that if Ramsay killed Roose and called himself Lord Bolton nobody would have a problem.

 

Ellaria is a commoner, and she seems to run the show now in Dorne.

Edit: And Ramsay is no longer a bastard, so yes, for him it will work. 

I had Myranda as an example because she was the mistress of the heir of the Warden of the North.

Ellaria is the mistress of the second in line to inherit Dorne(Oberyn), but he's dead so she's out of the race alltogether.

 

[Clash]

7 minutes ago, Xcorpyo001 said:

 

Ellaria is a commoner, and she seems to run the show now in Dorne.

She's the bastard daughter of a Dornish Lord and mother of Oberyn's daughters. Hardly a commoner on a par with the daughter of the keeper of hounds in Winterfell.

[Xcorpyo001]

10 minutes ago, Clash said:

She's the bastard daughter of a Dornish Lord and mother of Oberyn's daughters. Hardly a commoner on a par with the daughter of the keeper of hounds in Winterfell.

 

Hardly a commoner, but also hardly the next in line to Inherit the title of Princess of Dorne. Or the leader of house Martell.

[ssls6]

One of Oberyn's daughters can be legitimized.  Dany can do that when she takes over.

[Xcorpyo001]

12 minutes ago, ssls6 said:

One of Oberyn's daughters can be legitimized.  Dany can do that when she takes over.

Don't you mean if she takes over? 

It can be done, but we have to assume no lord allied with the Martells, or that have familly members of Martell descent, or just guys thirsty for power don't take over and kill the remaining bastards.

You know, Dorne was the only region in Westeros that didn’t believe that bastards are born with evil in their hearts, and are seen different there. Or they were, until the SS made their ‘power play’.   

Or we have to assume that paramour means wife in the show?

Or maybe the city of Dorne houses the only noble house in all the region of Dorne, and a bastard is better than someone with no blood ties?

Or maybe Ellaria will become the first president of Dorne.

Or there is an old Rhoynar tradition that states that the guy who kills the old leader becomes the new one, and Ellaria is the new leader by Trial of Combat.

Or just go with it and don’t try to use logic to explain things.

[Miley the Monstrous]

3 hours ago, Risto said:

George has written material for Sansa. And beside, that is not even proper argument. Jaime had a lot of chapters in Feast and look what they have made of him. So, not having material is not an excuse. 

TWOW spoilers

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Plus just days before Season 5 premiere, George published TWOW Alayne chapter.

That's only one chapter, it hardly counts. Fair point about jaime but they are indeed adapting his aFfC chapters this season, whereas I don't see sansa coming back to the vale any time soon. 

[ssls6]

12 minutes ago, Xcorpyo001 said:

Don't you mean if she takes over? 

 

Your imagination says "the shit I saw was impossible/illogical/improbable", my imagination says the show has given itself many ways to resolve what we saw.  Neither of us know what happens next

[Cas Stark]

59 minutes ago, Clash said:

She's the bastard daughter of a Dornish Lord and mother of Oberyn's daughters. Hardly a commoner on a par with the daughter of the keeper of hounds in Winterfell.

Is that something in the show?  Did they ever mention she's the daughter of a lord, or do we only know she's a bastard in the show?  

Of course it would be totally stupid and improbable that Dorne would follow a bunch of kinslaying nuts who killed all the remaining members of the Martell family, including their nephew/cousin/uncle...but that doesn't mean the show won't do it.  At this point, I'd even call that a nipick, since we haven't seen anyone in Dorne outside of red shirts other than the main characters.

[Clash]

 

1 hour ago, Xcorpyo001 said:

Ellaria is a commoner, and she seems to run the show now in Dorne.

 

47 minutes ago, Xcorpyo001 said:

Hardly a commoner, but also hardly the next in line to Inherit the title of Princess of Dorne. Or the leader of house Martell.

As others have pointed out, one of her daughters could be legitimised. So the worst that could haoppen is a civil war in Dorne. Before that happens though there will be a reckoning with the Lannisters. As I believe that's the main plot coming out of this, what happens afterwards is probably irrelevant.

[Xcorpyo001]

4 minutes ago, ssls6 said:

Your imagination says "the shit I saw was impossible/illogical/improbable", my imagination says the show has given itself many ways to resolve what we saw.  Neither of us know what happens next

You are correct, we should wait and see how they try to explain this in the next episodes.

But at the moment I’m going towards a “Hope for better, prepare for much much worse!” approach.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, Clash said:

 

 

As others have pointed out, one of her daughters could be legitimised. So the worst that could haoppen is a civil war in Dorne. Before that happens though there will be a reckoning with the Lannisters. As I believe that's the main plot coming out of this, what happens afterwards is probably irrelevant.

Who is going to legitimize them?  Tommen?  LOL.  Dany is still in Essos. 

[Tagganaro]

I'm thinking we get Ellaria/Sand Snakes framing the Lannisters for Doran and Trystane's death.  That would be the only thing that makes sense to me.  We've gotten bare-bones stuff in Dorne, but what we have gotten is broadly unpopular support for Doran and widespread passionate support for Oberyn.  Hence, his love and his daughters will be much more popularly received as well as war with the Lannisters.  

I think in many ways it is D & D just simplifying to get to where Dorne needed to be for the end game.  There was probably more planned for Dorne but after last season's disaster it was pretty much irredeemable.  In that way, I support this move 100%.

[Mladen]

2 hours ago, Miley the Monstrous said:

That's only one chapter, it hardly counts. Fair point about jaime but they are indeed adapting his aFfC chapters this season, whereas I don't see sansa coming back to the vale any time soon. 

The problem with the "they had nothing to write about" simply doesn't withhold given that they know in broad strokes how the book series will end. One of the things that I find completely absurd is that you can basically pinpoint which things Martin wrote and which things were created in their heads. And that is what is the biggest problems here. They simply have no good ideas as to what they should be writing without Martin's prose. 

[Miley the Monstrous]

38 minutes ago, Risto said:

The problem with the "they had nothing to write about" simply doesn't withhold given that they know in broad strokes how the book series will end. One of the things that I find completely absurd is that you can basically pinpoint which things Martin wrote and which things were created in their heads. And that is what is the biggest problems here. They simply have no good ideas as to what they should be writing without Martin's prose. 

That's just it. The show is usually at its best when DnD borrow straight from martin, but in the case of sansa there was nothing to borrow so we're left with DnD's own ideas, partly because martin didn't write enough material. 

And there's a big difference between a written chapter with all the details it entails and martin just telling you the broad strokes. Between the two I'd be more willing to skip the latter, whereas a written chapter might be compelling enough for me to want to include it. 

[Ser Hyle]

On 4/25/2016 at 3:40 PM, Florina Laufeyson said:

Pretty much. After sleeping on it, it dawned on me that the OP has a point. They fucking nuked Dorne. They nuked it so hard, because they fucked it up so bad, they cant repair it. The only way to repair that plot is to bring the Griffs into play, and without Arianne, that would have a very difficult time working. They seem to have no intention of including the Aegon/Faegon plot into the show. Im not sure they are going to even bother building tension between Dorne and Dany. 

Theres nothing they can do. They wrote themselves into such a shit corner, they had to literally nuke it. I wouldnt be surprised if the Sand Snakes and Ellaria end up showing up a little later on, only to get killed.

Oh shit! Couldn't they have just deleted the script, then emptied the Recycling bin, and then burned whatever printouts had been made? Literally nuking it seems kind of harsh, and expensive, and create a high risk of lateral damage and prosecution from the local authorities. It's also a little disheartening that TV show producers could get their hands on nuclear weapons for obvious reasons.

[Mr Smith]

On 4/26/2016 at 5:15 AM, Miley the Monstrous said:

I don't want to come off as one of those unhinged book purists, but DnD do strike me as the kind of people who would see the reaction critics and fans had towards the SS and Ellaria and go, "Oh, so everyone's hating on them, huh? Well, now the wall just got ten feet higher! And by that we mean you're gonna get way more of the shitty part of Dorne, so better get used to it!"

A part of me says it's irrational, but another part is adamant that DnD are taking the piss and basically giving us the middle finger. 

 

I'm not sure why they would though. The criticism of Dorne doesn't just come from the book readers. If they're doing what you're suggesting, they're going to end up turning a lot of people right off the show.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

16 hours ago, Miley the Monstrous said:

That's just it. The show is usually at its best when DnD borrow straight from martin, but in the case of sansa there was nothing to borrow so we're left with DnD's own ideas, partly because martin didn't write enough material. 

And there's a big difference between a written chapter with all the details it entails and martin just telling you the broad strokes. Between the two I'd be more willing to skip the latter, whereas a written chapter might be compelling enough for me to want to include it. 

Theres also a big difference between simply having to write your own material and having to make sweeping changes to fit everything into a much more condensed format. The earlier seasons basically never had that problem. 

[Clash]

21 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Who is going to legitimize them?  Tommen?  LOL.  Dany is still in Essos. 

Oberyn could have legitimised them . If I wanted to cover that plot 'hole', that's easily written in. Ellaria pops up with Oberyn's 'will'.

[Clash]

18 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

I'm thinking we get Ellaria/Sand Snakes framing the Lannisters for Doran and Trystane's death.  That would be the only thing that makes sense to me.  We've gotten bare-bones stuff in Dorne, but what we have gotten is broadly unpopular support for Doran and widespread passionate support for Oberyn.  Hence, his love and his daughters will be much more popularly received as well as war with the Lannisters.  

I think in many ways it is D & D just simplifying to get to where Dorne needed to be for the end game.  There was probably more planned for Dorne but after last season's disaster it was pretty much irredeemable.  In that way, I support this move 100%.

Yep, it's a sideshow that's going to turn the Lannister's attention away from the real danger. It will also result in the weakening of both houses, leaving things precariously balanced for whatever comes next.

[Cas Stark]

Just now, Clash said:

Oberyn could have legitimised them . If I wanted to cover that plot 'hole', that's easily written in. Ellaria pops up with Oberyn's 'will'.

Hasn't the show made it so the king is the only one who can legitimize a bastard?  Roose notes that he got a decree from Tommen legitimizing Ramsay, doesn't he?  

Not that it matters, the show doesn't sweat those kinds of details, I doubt they will ever explain how the kinslayers end up ruling Dorne, or even if they make it explicit somehow, we will just see Ellaria commanding people or talking smack or maybe not even that.  I still hold out hope all we see of them is in KL until they get killed at the end of the season.