So where in the heck was Trystane?

[El Guapo]

What they should do is just have pop up videos appear every other scene to help those viewers that need every little detail explained to them.

Seriously though the only thing on that list that could have used additional set up was the Dornish plot, specifically Trystane's murder.

 

 

[StarksNTargs]

Wow... if that poster really considers that laundry list of insanity "plot holes", then I really don't know what to say... go read a book where the author can hold your hand through every thought sequence and leave live action for people with a bit of imagination.

[Boris the Blade]

Man, people really go to extraordinary lengths to justify gigantic plotholes and irrational and at times horrific / contradictory writing.

[JonSnow4President]

For those of you that seem incapable of seeing why these are plotholes,

Jon's body is left alone, unguarded, untied up, and otherwise unsubued in an area that has already had two wights supposedly rise from the dead, along with at least some brothers that were at Hardhome to see this, and presumably with survivors from the first of the first men as well.  Think about this one long and hard.

There is no reason for Edd, random watchman #37, random watchman #38, and Davos to defend Jon's body while risking their own lives.  If it's a matter of respect, take him away from castle black (there is no one there when they find him) and burn him.  Really, we all know that it's an incredibly contrived way to keep his body safe until he can be revived, but there is no in-universe reason for characters to behave like that.  

As to Brienne, it's pretty clear she has no reason to know Sansa escaped.  If we can get over that hurdle, then following the hunting party isn't unreasonable.  Having a very, very short clip of her seeing the candle changes this within the context of the show (since they've already established it's basically a high-powered flashlight shaped like a candle).  It's just another in a long line of lazy, sloppy choices.  

Everything Dorne related is unforgiveable.  There is no solution that satisfies the actions of everyone involved.  If the ship is still in Kings Landing, docked, it makes no sense that Trystane is still on it, because Cersei would have him removed.  If the ship is en-route back to Dorne because Jaime sent it back per the letter, the Sand Snakes docking it unannounced is stupid.  Regardless, two sandsnakes had to suddenly disappear and Doran not give a flying f***.  The rest of Dorne is self explanatory.

For Thorne's speech, he was the one that ordered the gate open for Jon and Wildlings (who stupidly went to the wrong side of the wall).  I have a problem with killing Jon for letting the wildlings through after the fact when Jon already let them through.  

There is no indication of Brienne training Pod besides her saying she will.  Small nitpick in the grand scheme of things.  

The hounds disappear silently all of a sudden.  Once again, small nitpick in the grand scheme of things.  (But there are so many f***ing small nitpicks). Plus, there's only 5 Bolton's that die out of the 6 man hunting party. If we don't get him explaining it to Ramsey (or Ramsey explaining it to someone in front of his flayed body), that's a bit bigger of a nitpick.

The Tyrells are remarkably inactive.  And it's going to be worse when suddenly there's just a Tyrell army in the show (does anyone honestly have the faith to say that they're going to establish them arriving when they're needed, rather than just throwing it on screen like they were there the whole time?)

Mhysa ain't english.  

The ring is annoying as hell.  Jorah finds it by just looking down in the middle of a perfect circle.  The Dothraki were very nice to not ride through it and leave it perfect and undisturbed.

I really can't believe that someone is defending Dothraki not raping Dany without her at least claiming to be Drogo's widow before being presented to the Khal.  If she claims it before then, them taking her to him to get his take on what to do makes SOOOO much more sense.  

 

[Clash]

25 minutes ago, Rhollo said:

So Brienne would have been deaf if she didn't hear the bloodhounds, but when they "leg it", they do it completely silent ? Bause there is not a single bark, growl or howl to hear during the fight.

That's hardly a plot hole. Seriously, the dogs ran off quietly, so what? Is this keeping you awake at night trying to figure out what it means?

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By bullshit I mean his claim that "Jon let the Wildlings through the wall". No Mr. Thorne, that was all you.
He would have had the chance to actually make a "tough decision" AND accomplish something by keeping the gate shut an the wildlings north of the wall. Instead choose to follow Jons order and then killed him for it.
And claiming to be loyal and never disobeying orders when you just openly admitted mutiny two sentences before is also quite shameless.

How he rationalises it is hardly a plot hole. He wouldn't have had any support against Jon before the wildlings came through, but afterwards was a different matter.

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The Tyrells, one of the most powerful houses in Westeros ?

And yet you don't question the helplessness of Cersei in the same situation?

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There are at least 7 in a single shot and judging by their position throughout the scene there seem to be at least 10-12 in the close vicinity of Doran.

There were only two near enough to stop her that I could see. Once Doran is dead, so is their allegiance to him. Who is in charge then? Ellaria I presume, so would they.

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Because Khals have dibs on all females his Khalasar comes across ? When was that established ? Drogo didn't seem to care about that, when his soldiers raped Lhazareen women left and right and Dany ordered them to stop.

 

Again, hardly a plot hole. Who knows what their motivation was? Perhaps they thought she would be a prize for the Khal that would boost their standing with him. Why is this important?

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f they don't break it up, people at least like to watch a street fight. Hell, I am not a particularly voyeuristic person, but if there is a blind homeless girl suddenly showing off ninja-skills I AM WATCHING THAT.

 

Ninja skills? She looked like a blind person hitting the air with a stick.

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How is a longer ultimatum changing that. If they don't come out within a few minutes, they won't change their minds anymore. All that Thorne does is give them more time to prepare for the impending fight in the confined quarters or find a way to escape (or for Edd to arrive with the cavallry ?).
It's basically the equivalent of a bad guy dramatically taking his time to finish off the disarmed hero character lying on the ground just so he can get stabbed in the back by some ally of the hero character (hey, that sounds familiar)

Thorne doesn't know Edd got away. He doesn't know who exactly is in the room. He never got in. As far as he's concerned he has all the time he needs.

Again, I have no problem finding an answer to these 'plot holes'. I didn't need them when I watched the episode and none of what you listed cost me a second thought. Maybe a first thought, but hey it's late in the evening and I'm tired.

[Clash]

24 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

For those of you that seem incapable of seeing why these are plotholes,

Jon's body is left alone, unguarded, untied up, and otherwise unsubued in an area that has already had two wights supposedly rise from the dead, along with at least some brothers that were at Hardhome to see this, and presumably with survivors from the first of the first men as well.  Think about this one long and hard.

I think short and quick ;). Wights can rise again, but Jon isn't a wight. Dead bodies can be reanimated by white walkers but not south of the wall.

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There is no reason for Edd, random watchman #37, random watchman #38, and Davos to defend Jon's body while risking their own lives.  If it's a matter of respect, take him away from castle black (there is no one there when they find him) and burn him.  Really, we all know that it's an incredibly contrived way to keep his body safe until he can be revived, but there is no in-universe reason for characters to behave like that.  

This is the LC of the Nights Watch. The first thought (by Davos) is to bring him inside, not gallop off somewhere and burn him. If they did that, I expect this forum would explode with outraged fans talking about massive plot holes. I suspect that your problem is that you know what's going to happen and you don't like how it has been set up. I'm happy with it. Bringing the body inside is a natural reaction and thinking about the danger of wights when everyone (who actually believe they exist; not a universal belief) knows that the wall is a defence against them is just nonsesne.

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it makes no sense that Trystane is still on it, because Cersei would have him removed.

Cersei doesn't know he's there. Jaime makes that clear in his note.

 

[JonSnow4President]

7 minutes ago, Clash said:

I think short and quick ;). Wights can rise again, but Jon isn't a wight. Dead bodies can be reanimated by white walkers but not south of the wall.

This is the LC of the Nights Watch. The first thought (by Davos) is to bring him inside, not gallop off somewhere and burn him. If they did that, I expect this forum would explode with outraged fans talking about massive plot holes. I suspect that your problem is that you know what's going to happen and you don't like how it has been set up. I'm happy with it. Bringing the body inside is a natural reaction and thinking about the danger of wights when everyone (who actually believe they exist; not a universal belief) knows that the wall is a defence against them is just nonsesne.

Cersei doesn't know he's there. Jaime makes that clear in his note.

 

No, he makes it clear that he is SENDING HIM BACK.  

And given how the two wights rose south of the wall, I don't think they should be anywhere near confident that it is an impermeable magic barrier (something that requires the extra information we have from other hints in the books to think is true).  

[Colonel Green]

52 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

There is no reason for Edd, random watchman #37, random watchman #38, and Davos to defend Jon's body while risking their own lives.  If it's a matter of respect, take him away from castle black (there is no one there when they find him) and burn him.  Really, we all know that it's an incredibly contrived way to keep his body safe until he can be revived, but there is no in-universe reason for characters to behave like that.  

They aren't defending his body.  They took his body indoors and then realized they'd been singled out as loyalists, so are remaining in there.

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If the ship is still in Kings Landing, docked, it makes no sense that Trystane is still on it, because Cersei would have him removed. 

Cersei isn't in charge, and in any event, if they tried to remove him, he would raise anchor and leave.

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For Thorne's speech, he was the one that ordered the gate open for Jon and Wildlings (who stupidly went to the wrong side of the wall).  I have a problem with killing Jon for letting the wildlings through after the fact when Jon already let them through.  

Thorne's plan is certainly dumb, but that just makes him a hypocrite.

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There is no indication of Brienne training Pod besides her saying she will.  

And?  She said she would; she had plenty of time to do it last season.

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I really can't believe that someone is defending Dothraki not raping Dany without her at least claiming to be Drogo's widow before being presented to the Khal.  If she claims it before then, them taking her to him to get his take on what to do makes SOOOO much more sense.  

I don't see the issue.  They found a beautiful woman and decided to let their boss have first dibs.  That's a good way to get in with the boss.

[Clash]

16 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

No, he makes it clear that he is SENDING HIM BACK.  

For others who may not have seen the note:

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The Princess Mrycella died by poison on our return journey. I suspect Ellaria, not you, but my sister will demand war. I doubt Ellaria’s head will appease her, but it is a start, along with your nieces. Your son cannot stay in King’s Landing. I am sending him back on the same ship.

That's clear enough, He can't stay in KL for obvious reasons. The most obvious being what Cersei would do to him. Why do you need this spelled out? Cersei doesn't remove him because she doesn't know he's there, At no point does Jaime mention him to her. How can you leap from that to the assumption that Cersei knows he's on the ship?

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And given how the two wights rose south of the wall, I don't think they should be anywhere near confident that it is an impermeable magic barrier (something that requires the extra information we have from other hints in the books to think is true).  

They were brought south of the wall by the Nights Watch. They didn't come through of their own accord.

[hallam]

People really need to get out more. Whine less.

It is pretty clear that Trystane has just arrived back in Dorne because that is where the section is set. Doran is on a mode of transport, he meets his cousins, this suggests that he has returned home.

The point of killing Myrcella was to enable the assassination of Doran by making war with the Lannisters inevitable. The guards supported Doran earlier. What has changed is that his attempt to maintain peace has failed.

Ellaria has shown that she is stronger than Doran by killing the Lannister girl which is the reason the palace guard now backs her coup. She cannot kill Trystane until he is back home so it is logical for her to wait until his ship docks.

So much of the argument here is people complaining about 'mistakes' when they are simply being impatient. Explanations often come in the next episode. 

[Ser Greenseer]

4 minutes ago, hallam said:

People really need to get out more. Whine less.

It is pretty clear that Trystane has just arrived back in Dorne because that is where the section is set. Doran is on a mode of transport, he meets his cousins, this suggests that he has returned home.

The point of killing Myrcella was to enable the assassination of Doran by making war with the Lannisters inevitable. The guards supported Doran earlier. What has changed is that his attempt to maintain peace has failed.

Ellaria has shown that she is stronger than Doran by killing the Lannister girl which is the reason the palace guard now backs her coup. She cannot kill Trystane until he is back home so it is logical for her to wait until his ship docks.

So much of the argument here is people complaining about 'mistakes' when they are simply being impatient. Explanations often come in the next episode. 

Except he was obviously in Kings landing. When we see him on the boat he is painting the stones that go over the eyes of the dead. So he was obviously painting those for Myrcella's funeral which is in kings landing. 

[Bishop Cruz]

42 minutes ago, Ser Greenseer said:

Except he was obviously in Kings landing. When we see him on the boat he is painting the stones that go over the eyes of the dead. So he was obviously painting those for Myrcella's funeral which is in kings landing. 

Not to mention the establishing shot of the ship in the harbor in King's Landing. 

[Ser Greenseer]

2 minutes ago, Bishop Cruz said:

Not to mention the establishing shot of the ship in the harbor in King's Landing. 

Yeah, that too.

[hallam]

1 minute ago, Ser Greenseer said:

Yeah, that too.

OK so they were in KL.

Well it would make sense to kill Trystane in KL so that then Dorne can declare war on the Lannisters if Cersei won't oblige.

So assume the SandSnakes took off shortly after Myrcella's ship, landed at Storm's end and took horses up to KL. That cuts a large chunk off the journey, the ship has to go twice the distance.

[Ser Greenseer]

1 minute ago, hallam said:

OK so they were in KL.

Well it would make sense to kill Trystane in KL so that then Dorne can declare war on the Lannisters if Cersei won't oblige.

So assume the SandSnakes took off shortly after Myrcella's ship, landed at Storm's end and took horses up to KL. That cuts a large chunk off the journey, the ship has to go twice the distance.

We can't just assume things. It's a plot hole that will probably never be explained. No Excuses.

[hallam]

2 minutes ago, Ser Greenseer said:

We can't just assume things. It's a plot hole that will probably never be explained. No Excuses.

No, you are nit picking about irrelevances.

TV and film have always trimmed travel sequences. It is not a plot hole if Batman gets from Wayne Manor to Commissioner Gordons office. We assume he took the Batmobile.

Assuming the women took a boat or horses is not a plot hole, not close.

It might well be deliberate and how they got there might be an issue that is relevant and does merit explanation. But I doubt it.

You are willing to believe that Mel can be 400 years old but can't believe that someone could catch up with another boat.

[Ser Greenseer]

1 minute ago, hallam said:

No, you are nit picking about irrelevances.

TV and film have always trimmed travel sequences. It is not a plot hole if Batman gets from Wayne Manor to Commissioner Gordons office. We assume he took the Batmobile.

Assuming the women took a boat or horses is not a plot hole, not close.

It might well be deliberate and how they got there might be an issue that is relevant and does merit explanation. But I doubt it.

You are willing to believe that Mel can be 400 years old but can't believe that someone could catch up with another boat.

It is more the pacing of the episode and how they presented the passage of time throughout the episode. It goes from Sansa and Theon's escape which could only be a few hours from when they jumped to the sand snakes showing up in Dorne which would have had to take a few days at least, then it goes back to castle black only a few hours after Jon's stabbing. I have no trouble believing they could have just taken a boat but the way it was presented in the show was nonsensical and confusing to say the least.

[hallam]

1 minute ago, Ser Greenseer said:

It is more the pacing of the episode and how they presented the passage of time throughout the episode. It goes from Sansa and Theon's escape which could only be a few hours from when they jumped to the sand snakes showing up in Dorne which would have had to take a few days at least, then it goes back to castle black only a few hours after Jon's stabbing. I have no trouble believing they could have just taken a boat but the way it was presented in the show was nonsensical and confusing to say the least.

The episode covered a lot of material. I don't think it really mattered much where Trystane was killed, at this point anyway. 

I do suspect though that the Dorne sequences we saw this season were filmed in the Season 5 block in 2014, not this year. They did look a little disjointed. But that does not make a 'plot hole'.

[Ser Greenseer]

1 minute ago, hallam said:

The episode covered a lot of material. I don't think it really mattered much where Trystane was killed, at this point anyway. 

I do suspect though that the Dorne sequences we saw this season were filmed in the Season 5 block in 2014, not this year. They did look a little disjointed. But that does not make a 'plot hole'.

It's a convenience for the sake of plot that the SS suddenly arrived in Kingslanding out of no where with no explanation.

[robasp2]

7 hours ago, Clash said:

Because there was a message to be delivered with the traitor sign and his body beside it.

He's just a decent man. He's seen a murder of a man he likes and the confrontation that follows is not something he sought out initially. Who would he talk to about Stannis and Shireen? Melissandre? Who's hardly in the room with him for more than a few miutes?

Because it's true? Not many of the Nights Watch are fond of the wildlings either.

You'd want to be deaf not to hear the bloodhounds.

Training. As promised. By Brienne.

They legged it when things got messy and their handler was killed.

Cersei is in no hurry to free the woman who she thinks might have been behind her own imprisonment there. Who else is going to do it if not Cersei? Tommen on his own?

All two of them that I saw on screen?.

Only the ones who wouldn't lift a finger to avenge Elia's and now Oberyn's deaths.

From another ship or boat. How dificult would it be? Under cover of darkness, hide out until the main party left and then do the necessary. So many ways.

There's a photo of some of the props. The message that Doran read is in that photo. From Jaime it outlined what had happened and that Jaime was sending Trystane back on the same ship for his own safety. Too late...

There are lots of different people in the world.

So we can read it. Subtitles would be a bit crass really.

In a small patch of untouched grass in the middle of a huge trampled circle of grass that points to it like a bullseye. Still not easy but golfers find golf balls in far bigger patches of grass routinely

Yes and find themselves wearing their genitalia for a necklace when their Khal finds out that they got there first.

She can speak Dothraki, they must know of Drogo and probably have heard of his wife or even seen her when she was with him at Vaes Dothrak. Drogon is off hunting shepherds presumably. But no doubt he'll return to his mistress when he's good and fed.

Because people regularly jump in to street fights to break them up. It is known

Because it's easier to kill them in the open rather than trying to fight a skirmish in confined quarters. People could get hurt.

Davos is used to leadership. He takes over naturally and the others follow him just as naturally.

Did they say they were protecting it? Is it not just the fact that it's the room they brought his body to and where they then discussed the ramifications and decided on a plan of action?
 

And we know that the necklace is what keeps her young looking how?

Yes, see you are saying some possible explanations.. Good.

The problem here is that D&D are not showing those on screen.

1.How did SS get on the boat?

(An explanation was a must on the show. Atleast a hint that Ellaria sends them off to KL. You CAN make a character teleport if you show the begining. You CANT just have someone appear with no back story)

2.How did Ellaria convince those guards? Or if it was only the two, they must hint a plan how to deal with the others.

Also showing Areo collapse with a little prick on the back is so funny. They could have added the two guards)

Why make 48 minute episodes when you can take atleast a few seconds to give some clarity.