(SPOILERS) Criticise Without Reprecussion

[Apathetic Onlooker]

17 minutes ago, The Lord of the Waters said:

Would have much preferred it if Jon had just battered Ramsay to death with his fists.. I think it would have been much more enjoyable as I was really quite pleases during that moment.
 

Honestly, I despised everything about Sansa blankly staring as Ramsey got eaten by his dogs and then just doing the 'badass' walk away with a smirk on her face.  It was glib and nasty, was everything Ramsey would do, and frankly plays into all the nihilistic attitudes the show keeps shoving down our throats rather than trying to challenge them.  

But whatever.  Yay vengeance!  Yay gore!  Yay stylish violence!   What were the themes of A Song of Ice and Fire again...?  Oh what's it matter.  We've got an empowering* scene to show off.

 

*not actually empowering considering that Sansa is doing what Littlefinger wants and is playing into his hand

[LazyBazooka]

Where was Ghost?!

They really used CGI dogs at the end but we couldn't get ONE shot of Ghost tearing up some Boltons?

[Apathetic Onlooker]

2 minutes ago, LazyBazooka said:

Where was Ghost?!

They really used CGI dogs at the end but we couldn't get ONE shot of Ghost tearing up some Boltons?

lol, I bet he was killed off-screen.  

[Lord Freypie]

26 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

The most annoying part of this episode was Tyrion and his monologue to Theon: "When we met, you made dwarf jokes at me. Dwarf. Jokes. So clever, the jokes. Because I'm a dwarf. And so you did what? Jokes. About dwarves. And other people do jokes too. Sorry, did you asked about what they do jokes? I'mma tell you. It's about dwarves. You hear me? Jokes about dwarves!!!"

Just wait for him to learn about Theon's lack of penis, and spend half of next season demonstrating eunuch jokes are less offensive.

[scotcat]

Where was Ghost?  

Rickon apparently doesn't have sense enough to zig zag.

There was no reason at all for Sansa not to tell Jon about the Valemen. 

Jon apparently doesn't know how to lead anymore.  The guy that successfully led the defense of castle Black against Mance Rayder & his army. Wtf? 

[SuperMario]

Did everyone else love the awkward way Dany climbed onto CGI Drogon. You could clearly tell she was climbing a step stool as she was getting onto his wing. It's 2016 and that's the best green screen work you can come up with?

[House Killjoy]

Why didn't Ramsay take his shirt off for the fight club scene? 

[Nerevanin]

11 minutes ago, Lord Freypie said:

Just wait for him to learn about Theon's lack of penis, and spend half of next season demonstrating eunuch jokes are less offensive.

Yeah. Didn't he already insulted Grey Worm or Varys or both because of it? All hail Tyrion, the most politically correct person in all Westeros and Essos, yet so butthurt anytime someone gives him a mean look.

[Tadco26]

I enjoyed the episode over all.  There are things I could nitpick, but if every episode was this good my complaints about the series would be a fraction of what they are.  Most of the things that I could nitpick were set up in episodes prior to this one, so no changing them now.  I do agree that Sansa not telling Jon that the Vale is coming and letting him suicide charge when they could have waited a few hours was dumb, especially when they just talked about what could be done the night before and she just didn't bother mentioning it.  I suspect the writers didn't even think of this as being an issue for Jon.  Rickon was such a non-character that his death couldn't mean anything for the audience.  Should have shown his PoV for the past few seasons since they split if they wanted his death to matter to the viewers.

And of course the Vale and Theon/Yara's travel time is all silly unrealistic, but I've given up expecting anything else from these writers. 

[Nerevanin]

On tiny thing:

while rewatching the episode I noticed that Ramsay says that he didn't feed the dogs for 7 days AFTER Sansa leaves. Please, don't tell me that of all the things that Ramsay said, Jon and co. remembered this line and found it so important to tell it to Sansa asap. Like

[LazyBazooka]

I'm actually convinced that Deadpan is a robot, she is so emotionless, even when riding a motherfucking dragon she has no expression on her face - D&D probably think that emotions and feelings are for pussies and not empowering at all. I feel bad for Dinklage for essentially having to 'act' with a brick wall.

[SevasTra82]

6 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

On tiny thing:

while rewatching the episode I noticed that Ramsay says that he didn't feed the dogs for 7 days AFTER Sansa leaves. Please, don't tell me that of all the things that Ramsay said, Jon and co. remembered this line and found it so important to tell it to Sansa asap. Like

That may have just been a lazy mistake by the Writers.

[TywinBestCharacter]

The cinematography was excellent, and the battle scene itself was very well executed.

That said, the writing was horrible. Ramsey himself has been toxic to the show for nearly two seasons now. Despite whatever stupid thing he does, nothing ever happens to him. He is an evil Mary Sue. The bit with Rickon was just stupid. Hell, the whole thing where Rickon, the wildling and Shaggy dog where all killed for a cheap emotional punch seemed stupid. The music and deceptive camera cuts when Rickon was running just pissed me off more than anything. Ramsey firing into his own mounted knights-- those would be the lords and their sons supporting him-- would be enough to have someone rebel against him. The body pile was absurdly high and the shield wall was also stupid. Sansa was actually horrible and the fact the show needs her to be "right" is obnoxious. GIVE THE GIANT A TREE! OR A STONE! OR ANYTHING! Littlefinger apparently has some kind of teleporter cannon to bring 10k knights that far north with such speed and perfect timing.

[King Louis II (KLII)]

7 hours ago, Morna The Maid said:

See, I can't help thinking about the whole nudity thing, it's the same thing. There was way too much criticism that he show only showed tits and merkins, not enough male nudity. This offended Dave and Dan's delicate Frat Boy sensibilities, so they decided to SHOVE IT IN OUR FACE literally in the most offensive way, "you want the guys to suffer?" (as if it was suffering) "OK here's an extreme close-up with an STD thrown in, There, you feminazis happy?" Then a couple episodes later, we're in Volantis,  back with an sea of nice looking tits flopping all over. Mr Frat Boyz are just totally incapable of how offensive it is for people to see All Tits All The Time, just b/c a female breast presents a physically prettier body part onscreen then male genitals. *facepalm" LOOKS have nothing to do with it.

 

And surprise, women don't want to see ALL the men reduced to either stupid, boring, brutish, offensive, passive etc at the cost of making women strong. That way their "agency"means nothing.

 

Now, same about the "empowered women" plot this season. "Oh, rape is offensive to you? Our favorite whipping girl Sansa is someone you actually care about? OH THE HORROR. let's fix this by giving you a bunch of Boss Ass Bitches who do the most despicable, annoying, bitchy, selfish things ever. We can't have women just be normal people, they're either delicate sweet flowers or Empowered Bitches. There? Empowerment enough for you? We thought so." Wanna bet next season we see men restored to their proper heroic place, while women become nice again (except for Sansa, D/D's Favorite Bitch) BUT at the price of their individuality and agency.

 

None of this crap would be  happening if after 6 seasons and all the controversy, D/D would have responded by hiring ONE FEMALE WRITER for the show.

Sorry, call me "Team Samsa" But I fail to see Samsa as a bitch as most people here. She went through hell, and became strong. I think people are reading too much on her intentions. I haven't seen her been as arrogant as Cersei, Asha, or even Dany. She was gentle with Brienne, Theon, and remember the scene of her eating at the Night Watch.  Why when a woman becomes strong she has to be called a "Bitch"?

[Apathetic Onlooker]

Also, I think it would have been a better scene if Rickon DID live.  I mean imagine that... our villain-sue gets away with everything up until this point.  Sets up a scenario in which we know Rickon is screwed and likely to die by.  Then out of some dumb luck or sheer mistake, Ramsey misses and Rickon actually gets away.  Awkward silence follows, Smalljon and Lord Karstark look at Ramsey like "Wtf",  Jon rides back, and then Ramsey gets angry and orders the attack.  

For once, showing our villain actually making a MISTAKE and getting frustrated?  Getting overconfident and failing?  Showing our heroes actually get something to work out for them after getting the shaft so many times?  That would have been interesting.  May have even worked in Jon's favor and given him a chance to shine as a character.  He could cool off and stick with the plan of letting Ramsey come to him.  It would have actually made this whole battle interesting and not nearly as predictable.  And wouldn't it have been something if Jon was actually WINNING the fight before Sansa's reinforcements showed up.  May have even provoked an interesting conversation or a debate of conflicting ideals.  

But no, we don't want to give the heroes any illogically unfair advantages (unless they're Daenerys)-- so let's give our villains every illogically unfair advantage possible, have them win at everything, make everyone around them stupid, never have them pay for any of their decisions, and only be defeatable when another villain (Littlefinger) shows up to take them on.  Because that's 'good writing'.  My wife, who never read any of the leaked spoilers, guessed how the ENTIRE battle would play out before it ever happened.  Because it's THAT predictable how D&D buff up their villain cast and dumb down all the protagonists just to feed into their badness and appear edgy.  It's hilarious how these show hacks even still think this is shocking anymore.

Ramsey has to be seen as 'bad' so we need to kill Rickon and then show his body getting riddled with arrows to hammer the point home.  And Rickon can't zig zag away.  And Jon can't use his head for once and stick to a battle plan.  And Sansa can't use her head and explain the Vale army's presence either to Jon or any of the hesitant Northern Houses to gain their loyalty.  And the Houses supporting Ramsey can't have any agency or complain when he shoots their men or asks them to die for him against the true heirs of Winterfell because he won't fight one-on-one.  No, they're stooges to the Boltons because plot.  Ramsey can't be made to appear wrong about anything.

OH here's another interesting idea!  What is Ramsey's men-- turned on him!  What if instead of this "epic" battle, they all surrendered once it was clear he didn't give a toss about any of them?  Or maybe mid-battle they'd have turned on him the second he started ordering his archers to fire on his own men?  Then hecould have been fed him to his starving dogs.  I personally don't like Sansa doing that, but at least it would have supported a message-- treat those that are loyal to you like shit and they'll turn on you.  It may have even seemed poetic.  But naw... That requires too much brain power and would actually be supporting a theme-- and we all know that themes are just for middle-school book reports.  

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

the wall of corpses

[Tyche]

11 minutes ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

Sorry, call me "Team Samsa" But I fail to see Samsa as a bitch as most people here. She went through hell, and became strong. I think people are reading too much on her intentions. I haven't seen her been as arrogant as Cersei, Asha, or even Dany. She was gentle with Brienne, Theon, and remember the scene of her eating at the Night Watch.  Why when a woman becomes strong she has to be called a "Bitch"?

She held crucial information back from the leaders of their army and had many of their men killed because of this. They need to give us a good reason for her behaviour otherwise I'm going to assume she acted very inconsiderate and selfish. Another thread suggested good reasons like wanting to prevent Jon from becoming dependent on LF because she asked for his help and not Jon. But that might be honeypotting.

She was yelling at Jon that he didn't let her contribute although she hid this knowledge. What right did she have to be angry with him then? And why does she need his permission to speak? It's dumb. They dumbed her down and it's really sad.

Also, she didn't show much reaction to Rickon's death.

Until this season she was my favourite on the show...

[SuperMario]

3 minutes ago, Tyche said:

She held crucial information back from the leaders of their army and had many of their men killed because of this. They need to give us a good reason for her behaviour otherwise I'm going to assume she acted very inconsiderate and selfish. Another thread suggested good reasons like wanting to prevent Jon from becoming dependent on LF because she asked for his help and not Jon. But that might be honeypotting.

She was yelling at Jon that he didn't let her contribute although she hid this knowledge. What right did she have to be angry with him then? And why does she need his permission to speak? It's dumb. They dumbed her down and it's really sad.

Also, she didn't show much reaction to Rickon's death.

Exactly. Plus, she specifically told Jon she knew Ramsay and to let her help. He says ok, and all she says is that she doesn't know battles. Maybe that would have been the time to mention this huge army that is just sitting over yonder that will help you out.

[White Harbors Wrath]

I think Sansa withholding information on the Vale forces was ridiculous and irresponsible since a vast amount of northern deaths is now on her head. Forget waiting hours. Jon was the one that initiated the parlay...they could have easily waited a day or three. Outriders could have been sent to gather location information on the Vale soldiers proximity.

I will give her slack on Rickon however. She knew he was dead...whats there to be upset about.

[Apathetic Onlooker]

25 minutes ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

Sorry, call me "Team Samsa" But I fail to see Samsa as a bitch as most people here. She went through hell, and became strong. I think people are reading too much on her intentions. I haven't seen her been as arrogant as Cersei, Asha, or even Dany. She was gentle with Brienne, Theon, and remember the scene of her eating at the Night Watch.  Why when a woman becomes strong she has to be called a "Bitch"?

 

Oh-- you know what, take your innuendos and your tumblr logic back to where it belongs.  I am so tired, when anyone criticizes a female character for acting in a ridiculous manner, of all the white knights coming to their side with "MUHHH Y U HATE STRONG WOMENZ".  It has nothing to do with her being 'strong'.  What she did was patently stupid, dishonest, cruel, and not nearly as 'empowered' as you people think she is (she's playing into Littlefinger's hand for god's sake).    

She covered up a Vale army that could have been used to buy loyalty of the Northern Houses or saved lives in the battle, which would have both shown her as someone who learned how to be politically cunning and established her as a strong and compassionate woman.  Instead, she hides it and many Northmen die for no reason.  She gives up on her younger brother because "meh, he's fucked either way" and then doesn't care or even react when he's riddled with arrows.  She could make a point that he's already dead, but you'd think at least she'd care or would show a little sadness at the prospect that he's going to die.  She watches with a smile as a man is torn to shreds and a bunch of other men die.  Sure the man was a psychopath who raped her so perhaps that understandable, but do you think becoming a sociopath yourself makes up for all the cruelty paid to you?  Is this story about how cool it is get vengeance and strut about like a 'badass'?  I must have read a different set of books.  

As for the word "Bitch", anymore it's used both against women and men.  But for those who do complain when a woman is called a 'Bitch', do you disapprove when men are called "Dicks"?  And not only that, she's been referred to as a "Boss Ass Bitch"  because that's what Sophia Turner herself said about her character this season.  She's the one who used it to define her own character first.  So please, spare us all the white-knighting and the implied sexism where it doesn't fit. Almost everyone here who's argued against how her character is acting have argued the same about Jon and Davos and any number of men.