JGP Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 2 hours ago, Warsaw said: 1. She didn't even know they were coming. What was she supposed to do, get Jon's hopes up and risk him being over confident? She had no way of knowing until the last minute. And it's not like she trusts Littlefinger. I don't understand why NO ONE sees this. This doesn't make internal sense if you look at the staging: i. Sansa airs her gripes with Jon [then immediately undermines herself] storms off followed by ii. Sansa and Littlefinger together at the end of the strand of trees, as the host of the Vale whisks past for their charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargaryenLoyalist Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, tugela said: Sansa is the leader of house Stark in the absence of Rickon, NOT Jon. It was the duty of the commanders to consult her on matters of war and get buy off, but they failed to do this. That is what she was pissed about. She did not disclose the Vale request because she had no way of knowing when or if it would be honored. The Vale situation had political overtones that went well beyond winning the battle that had to be considered, and in fact if the Vale had joined prior to the battle, Ramsey would have just waited them out in the castle. At some point the Vale would have returned home, and Ramsey would win. Ideally the Starks needed to win back Winterfell without outside assistance. Winning it back with outside assistance would make them vassals of the assisting state, and that is what she was trying to avoid. Those concepts would have been completely over Jon's head. He was all about the short term, Sansa was about the long term. Ideally they needed to be talking to each other, but effective communication was lacking. Like all conflicts, there is a political dimension as well as a military one. Jon was only concerned with the military dimension, whereas Sansa was concerned about the political dimension. Those were their respective skill sets. Ser Davos was acting as their equivalent of a Secretary of State. hear hear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Yorick Ampersand Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Yes. A thousand times yes. Sansa was allways annoying and it seems she is trying to be even more annoying now. She gets on my nerves much more than Ramsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsaw Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Just now, JEORDHl said: This doesn't make internal sense if you look at the staging: i. Sansa airs her gripes with Jon [then immediately undermines herself] storms off ii. Sansa and Littlefinger together at the end of the strand of trees, as the host of the Vale whisks past for their charge It does make sense. What does her storming off have to do with anything? And what if LF and Sansa together? Where else would she be, NOT watching? She could've been wainting anxiously for all we know. Maybe if she had had a confirmation, she would've told Jon. Maybe we'll find out in the next episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargaryenLoyalist Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Just now, Ser Yorick Ampersand said: Yes. A thousand times yes. Sansa was allways annoying and it seems she is trying to be even more annoying now. She gets on my nerves much more than Ramsay. Well that's a problem for you rather than her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 19 minutes ago, Drogo_1 said: Completely agree with you. Except you left out the cold callousness she displayed last episode. She has already totally written off rescuing her little brother. She does not get upset or mourn him at all on camera. She is standing next to his dead arrow riddled body and all she wants to do is have Jon tell her it's her turn to kill Ramsey. I never liked Sansa, but seeing her so indifferent to her murdered little brother made me wish for her to have a slow painful death. She has become hardened by the constant trauma she has experienced for the last few years. When your every day brings forth the possibility of some new humiliation or suffering, and the possibility of death, you develop an emotional shell to protect you so that you will survive. You do not display what is going on inside you, because doing so makes you vulnerable. She has been damaged as a human being by her experiences, as have Jon and Arya. They become very practical in the face of adversity. There is no point in wailing about the dead when there are more pressing matters to deal with in the living. You bury them and move to the next challenge. Such is life as a medieval leader, there is no room for sentimentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargaryenLoyalist Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Just now, tugela said: She has become hardened by the constant trauma she has experienced for the last few years. When your every day brings forth the possibility of some new humiliation or suffering, and the possibility of death, you develop an emotional shell to protect you so that you will survive. You do not display what is going on inside you, because doing so makes you vulnerable. She has been damaged as a human being by her experiences, as have Jon and Arya. They become very practical in the face of adversity. There is no point in wailing about the dead when there are more pressing matters to deal with in the living. You bury them and move to the next challenge. Such is life as a medieval leader, there is no room for sentimentality. Very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Just now, Warsaw said: It does make sense. What does her storming off have to do with anything? And what if LF and Sansa together? Where else would she be, NOT watching? She could've been wainting anxiously for all we know. Maybe if she had had a confirmation, she would've told Jon. Maybe we'll find out in the next episode. Didn't you just state that she didn't know they were coming? So Sansa, not knowing, goes from an entitled fit with Jon to presumably her tent, where a message or messenger had somehow found it's way past their pickets, letting Sansa know when and where to sneak out of the camp to join Littefinger prior to the Vale's charge? You're kidding right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannistician Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, SerMixalot said: Sansa the Flayed Lion-Mockingbird Queen fixed Forgot about that, I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 minute ago, Stannistician said: Forgot about that, I stand corrected. At the rate she is going through husbands she will be the Elizabeth Taylor of Westeros in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsaw Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Just now, JEORDHl said: Didn't you just state that she didn't know they were coming? So Sansa, not knowing, goes from an entitled fit with Jon to presumably her tent, where a message or messenger had somehow found it's way past their pickets, letting Sansa know when and where to sneak out of the camp to join Littefinger prior to the Vale's charge? You're kidding right? Well, if I were in that position, of not knowing if they were coming or not, I would fucking watch and wait in case they came. Wouldn't you? Also, you're mixing up the timeline. Her conversation with Jon happens at night. Then she's seen, the next day, with Jon, talking to Ramsay. So what you say simply didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a black swan Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 9 minutes ago, TargaryenLoyalist said: Nonsense on stilts. Sansa couldn't be sure the Vale knights would get there in time. All power to her. How much time would they have needed if she didn't lie to Jon at Castle Black? Before or after their Northern LOL Recruitment drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargaryenLoyalist Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Just now, DutchArya said: How much time would they have needed if she didn't lie to Jon at Castle Black? Before or after their Northern LOL Recruitment drive? :-) All good things to those who wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a black swan Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 9 minutes ago, SerMixalot said: At the rate she is going through husbands she will be the Elizabeth Taylor of Westeros in no time. Meanwhile, a Stark maiden is on the way home. Can you just imagine them trying this marriage musical-chairs with Arya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, Warsaw said: Well, if I were in that position, of not knowing if they were coming or not, I would fucking watch and wait in case they came. Wouldn't you? Also, you're mixing up the timeline. Her conversation with Jon happens at night. Then she's seen, the next day, with Jon, talking to Ramsay. So what you say simply didn't happen. [rolls eyes] The point remains. Where was she when the horns of the Vale sounded? With Littlefinger. So, if she didn't know then at some point during those few days it was made known to her-- or it was just garbage scripting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannistician Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 12 minutes ago, NutBurz said: Ok, I´ll give you half this point, but just until she literally throw Littlefinger to the wolves in the last season. While I certainly hope she does this, she will never be able to shake the terrible influence he has had over her. Same with Cercei. She is more a child of those two mentors than she is a child of Ned and Cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a black swan Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Just now, TargaryenLoyalist said: :-) All good things to those who wait Yeah, but if she trusted her family, thousands of people & Wun Wun would still be alive right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnStormWeaver Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I really hope they make her a villain. She is the Fredo of the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Just now, Stannistician said: While I certainly hope she does this, she will never be able to shake the terrible influence he has had over her. Same with Cercei. She is more a child of those two mentors than she is a child of Ned and Cat. NOPE, NOPE, NOPE IN SHOW, she has spent relatively LITTLE time with LF, what a few days in the Vale? a trip to WF? She spent more time with Ramsey and Jon then she ever did with LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannistician Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 minute ago, DutchArya said: Yeah, but if she trusted her family, thousands of people & Wun Wun would still be alive right now. I wonder if Tormund will throw Sansa a shovel and make her bury all the Free Folk that she condemned to death with her actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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