Jon: Lucky or Special?

[facelessaryas]

I don't know. Just re watched it. Tormund says, "We need you, tomorrow Jon Snow. Arrows hit all around him twice. His face looks shocked at one point. The sad Winterfell music. I think he does get an arrow to the leg after he falls off the horse. And almost suffocated. But I just feel like we just saw Jon Snow 2.0, for the first time. That was crazy, Ya'll! You gotta know he's got a destiny, what with the R + L= J. Why else is it important? I can't believe people arent more excited by it. 

[Desert Fox]

He's wearing chainmail armor too. If he had steel chainmail build into that stark leather armor, arrows would have a tough time penetrating.

[facelessaryas]

18 minutes ago, Sand11751 said:

Jon is Dany's hair now; can survive anything. 

Love this. 

[Marada78]

Not untoucheable but not lucky either. His reflexes are much better than before and he understands it at some point. That's also why he decides to take Ramsey approaching him with just the shield. If you call him lucky in the battle you should call him crazy for that decision that doesn't make sense otherwise. Also the reflexes used with the last and third arrow are not normal at all.

[Jarl Halstein]

8 hours ago, facelessaryas said:

Ok. We need to talk about Jon. So. He's at one point just kneeling in the field, watching the Bolton army advance and the collision happens. Bodies and horses go everywhere. He time after time is getting ready to die, but doesn't. The inside the episode says hes just "lucky". But was it just luck? This is the first time since his resurrection that we've seen him fight. I was watching the fight in awe. I was like, "what does the mean"???? Was he just merely lucky or was it something more? 

If the writers had intended it to be magic, they would have clearly shown that it was magic.

4 hours ago, NutBurz said:

You guys are aware that people have historically survived many violent battles, right?

4 hours ago, NutBurz said:

 

Not when they charge the enemy alone, an enemy with plenty of archers who can reach them at that distance, and when they are the leader of their side and therefore the primary target of the other side, whose leader by the way planned for exactly this.

I think everyone is okay with the commanding officer surviving. Like Stannis living to the end of his battle. But not when the commanding officer goes out of his way to get himself killed and still survives.

And for Sevens' sake, someone tell Jon to wear a helmet like an actual warrior.

[PirateVergo]

When it's Jon Snow = lucky, plot armor, gary stu.

When it's Daenerys "most beautiful woman on earth, 3 dragons, conqueror of the world" = realistic character, deserve what she get, plot is fair to her

[lakin1013]

Yesterday was Father's Day and I was thinking about how Jon was lucky to have Ned as a father (foster, uncle, or otherwise).  He was fortunate to have Uncle Benjen as a positive influence.  Then I realized that among the many characters, Jon has been exceedingly fortunate with male mentors.  He had Jeor Mormont, who seemed to watch out for Jon.  He knew Maester Aemon, both decent and thoughtful.  After a scattering of friends, he met Mance and they seemed to gel.  Then Tormund.  Then Davos.  One of the reasons Davos fits in so quickly and so tightly with Jon and Company is because we don't question it.  Davos is decent and Jon and Company are.  There is a natural rightness of fit.  For those of you claiming plot armor, this was Martin's doing.  He deliberately positions Jon so that there is always an older man teaching Jon along the way.  There is that old saying that 'you are known by the company you keep' and you have to reflect that Sansa has lived with monsters and Jon has been close to decent, kind men. 

Anyway, sometimes I think the plot of ASoIaF is actually about global warming and other times I think the plot is misguided humans, 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing'.  But just maybe a subplot is who you meet along the way helps you become who you are. Mundane maybe, but evidence persists that Jon is both lucky and special. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Sand11751 said:

Jon is Dany's hair now; can survive anything. 

Jon is Dany's hair?  Does he enjoy blowing gracefully from Dany's head while she rides Drogon?

[blckp]

his plot armor was ridiculous in this episode , never bothered with plot armor but this one was way too over

[Trollosi]

It's called Hollywood directing. They could have made it more realistic, or made Jon smarter tactically, but then it would've been a boring Jon as he would be behind the soldiers directing the troops a'la Napoleon.

[Hol Horse]

It's a common thing in TV/movies involving giant battles, where the main character(s) doesn't get trampled, backstabbed by a nameless soldier, or shot with a stray arrow, despite the fact that it's chaos all around him and everyone else is dying.

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

30 minutes ago, Trollosi said:

It's called Hollywood directing. They could have made it more realistic, or made Jon smarter tactically, but then it would've been a boring Jon as he would be behind the soldiers directing the troops a'la Napoleon.

Seriously the stupidity of both side make it least realistic the most. Roll eyes! 

[NutBurz]

1 hour ago, Jarl Halstein said:

If the writers had intended it to be magic, they would have clearly shown that it was magic.

Not when they charge the enemy alone, an enemy with plenty of archers who can reach them at that distance, and when they are the leader of their side and therefore the primary target of the other side, whose leader by the way planned for exactly this.

I think everyone is okay with the commanding officer surviving. Like Stannis living to the end of his battle. But not when the commanding officer goes out of his way to get himself killed and still survives.

And for Sevens' sake, someone tell Jon to wear a helmet like an actual warrior.

Yes, I wish people were as wise as to nitpick only things like the lack of a helmet.

 

The archers however could not easily hit him at that distance, Ramsey was using a crude longbow with huge bolts. It´s likely that a massive volley would hit him, but that´s both a very poor use of limited material and Ramsey did not even want to kill Jon before his army charged behind him.

 

He is the leader, and he is targeted and he defeats a bunch of people because it´s been repeatedely shown he´s a better swordsman than most.

Sure, many of the takes gave special emphasis to how often he could have died in order to capitalize on the theme of his death in particular, which links to other themes in the series and to the fact he´s a protagonist; but everyone who lives through a battle faces a similar course of events, they all could have died if not for this or that.

The cavalries clashing just as the Bolton army would get to him is a matter of cinematography - it´s believable considering the distances, and it doesn´t even necessarily have to mean it happened exactly like that, but more from the emotionally-involved perspective of Jon.

[W1NT3RF3LL]

4 hours ago, bfin said:

You said in the past he took beatings and he was just as important. That's totally incorrect. He was brought back to life. He's way more important now. They dropped the tv hint when him and Ramsay were initially talking. Jon wanted one on one. Ramsay said no"he heard Jon was the best swordsman in The North." Couple that with him being the main character or one of the two main characters and he's not getting killed in this fight. It's gonna look unreal but they are trying to show the viewers that he bosses mortal men in fights

I guess what I'm trying to say is its not as though they decided before this season started that all of a sudden that he was an important character.  I think anyone who has read the books or hell even watched since the first season knows he is a very important character in this entire series.  So to say all of sudden because he is an important it was all plot armor, well he has been important this entire time, there is nothing new to that.

[DJE]

I think luck played some part into it, but if he is TPTWP or AA, then, he had R'hllor or some higher power watching over him.

[W1NT3RF3LL]

3 minutes ago, NutBurz said:

Yes, I wish people were as wise as to nitpick only things like the lack of a helmet.

 

The archers however could not easily hit him at that distance, Ramsey was using a crude longbow with huge bolts. It´s likely that a massive volley would hit him, but that´s both a very poor use of limited material and Ramsey did not even want to kill Jon before his army charged behind him.

 

He is the leader, and he is targeted and he defeats a bunch of people because it´s been repeatedely shown he´s a better swordsman than most.

Sure, many of the takes gave special emphasis to how often he could have died in order to capitalize on the theme of his death in particular, which links to other themes in the series and to the fact he´s a protagonist; but everyone who lives through a battle faces a similar course of events, they all could have died if not for this or that.

The cavalries clashing just as the Bolton army would get to him is a matter of cinematography - it´s believable considering the distances, and it doesn´t even necessarily have to mean it happened exactly like that, but more from the emotionally-involved perspective of Jon.

Seriously?  If you pause that scene there are two guys right off at the bat that are charging right at him and could have easily taken his head off and ended the battle right there.  Lets not forget the hundreds that past him thereafter.  I'm sorry i have to disagree here, I get what you are saying in that many who fought in that battle could have lost their lives many of times, but no way in gods green earth was it in the manner of what Jon went through.  There is no way he could be just be lucky, that sounds insane as an explanation.

[NutBurz]

13 minutes ago, NutBurz said:

and it doesn´t even necessarily have to mean it happened exactly like that, but more from the emotionally-involved perspective of Jon.

 

[A Prince of Dorne]

7 hours ago, W1NT3RF3LL said:

This is what was saying in the other thread.  I thought it to be done too purposely for it to be plot armor.  At one point he has his guard down and he is looking around and nothing is happening to him.  It was as though as it was done purposely to hint that he is something so much more than what he is.  I mean come on, right at the beginning of the battle when the cavalierly are charging right at him he gets completely untouched.  They saw him head on as well.  Not only that everyone is dying right next to him and he is slaughtering everyone he matches up against.  In past fights that we have seen him in he received some beatens and he was just important then as he is now and he never had plot armor like that. For him to do what he was doing in the way he was doing it, its hard for me to believe it was plot armor.  He very much looked superhuman and they made it look like that on top of it.  From the arrows, to the horses etc, they put emphasis on it.

Has anything written by the show ever had a deeper meaning? Why would you expect it to now?

[Dog92]

He was lucky, like many great warriors and commanders in history. every big name that has written history through his battles could have died many times in many battles, easiest by arrows but they were just lucky and survived those battles. That's why they could write history. Jon could also have died in that battle and the producer really let that feel. there were some really intense moments but he didn't. Many other fighters on Jons side were also lucky and i mean those we don't even know. Enjoy it.

[blckp]

just watched inside episode, DxD calls Jon Snow's plot armor as luck, holy shit wtf  haha