StarkofWinterfell Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 minute ago, David Selig said: Why the hell would Royce swore fealty to Jon Snow? This show gets dumber every week. The Royces have some relation to the Starks. They're cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, StarkofWinterfell said: The Royces have some relation to the Starks. They're cousins. Really? When was this established? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 9 minutes ago, Tianzi said: I feel bad for Sansa. Jon was right, if it wasn't for her - may say she didn't do anything by herself all we want, but the truth stands: she was the only reason the Vale knights ever arrived there - the would all be dead meat. And now it looks like she will be cheated out of her inheritance. And that 'Ned Stark blood' was just adding insult to injury. she was only after her revenge and she got it, I don't think that she wants anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrisBest Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 6 minutes ago, David Selig said: Why the hell would Royce swear fealty to Jon Snow? This show gets dumber every week. I'm not sure that they were pledging fealty but rather in their case they're just acknowledging Jon and the North's new sovereignty and pledging themselves as allies. It doesn't mean the Vale has become a vassal state to the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, Risto said: Really? When was this established? When Lady Lorra Royce married Lord Beron Stark in circa 209-221 A.C. Just some backstory to the characters that the show hasn't explored in depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just now, StarkofWinterfell said: When Lady Lorra Royce married Lord Beron Stark in circa 209-221 A.C. In the show, I mean. This is TV subforum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just now, Risto said: In the show, I mean. This is TV subforum. Still applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just now, StarkofWinterfell said: Still applies. No, it doesn't. There is a book canon and there is a show canon. The Stark/Royce relation, although exists in book canon, doesn't exist in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanïelNorth Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just now, Risto said: No, it doesn't. There is a book canon and there is a show canon. The Stark/Royce relation, although exists in book canon, doesn't exist in the show. Yohn Royce however spoke fontly of Ned Stark last season. Even if the family connection doesnt hold, the Vale Lords have a certain fondness for the Starks because Ned was raised there. (As was mentioned in a flashback this season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 minute ago, Risto said: No, it doesn't. There is a book canon and there is a show canon. The Stark/Royce relation, although exists in book canon, doesn't exist in the show. Yes it does. From show wiki: Quote House Royce holds a blood-relationship to House Stark of the North: while it is an old connection, they still consider the Starks their kin, combined with their shared heritage as descendants of the First Men. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/House_Royce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NutBurz Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Screaming King in the North, especially when you´re not from the North, has nothing to do with pledging fealty. In any case, so much can change in a few episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 minute ago, StarkofWinterfell said: Yes it does. From show wiki: That is "in the books"section you quoted. 3 minutes ago, DanïelNorth said: Yohn Royce however spoke fontly of Ned Stark last season. Even if the family connection doesnt hold, the Vale Lords have a certain fondness for the Starks because Ned was raised there. (As was mentioned in a flashback this season) Yeah, but it is long way from claiming they are blood relatives which in TV show they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 9 minutes ago, Risto said: That is "in the books"section you quoted. Yeah, but it is long way from claiming they are blood relatives which in TV show they aren't. Book-canon and show-canon are only relevant for how certain events will play out and not for entire character or House backstories. You can hold on to your belief that since it hasn't been explored in the show it means it is false but I highly doubt D&D would change pretty much an entire House's heritage. It's one of those cool, interesting tidbits you can choose to apply to show-Royces or not. I won't fault you if you choose to wait for some evidence next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, StarkofWinterfell said: Book-canon and show-canon are only relevant for how certain events will play out and not for entire character or House backstories. You can hold on to your belief that since it hasn't been explored in the show it means it is false but I highly doubt D&D would change pretty much an entire House's heritage. Do I need to remind you about Tyrells and Martells? Karstarks, Umbers, Manderlys? DnD are cutting and changing as they please. Not including a connection that even in the books didn't play any significant role is not surprising. It is not belief, it is simply the fact that said connection has never been mentioned or played any role in the TV show, which is why we can't consider it a part of TV show's canon. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just now, Risto said: Do I need to remind you about Tyrells and Martells? It is not belief, it is simply the fact that said connection has never been mentioned or played any role in the TV show, which is why we can't consider it a part of TV show's canon. Plain and simple. I don't think a lack of mention necessarily disproves something unless it is explicitly disproved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarksNTargs Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 It does make me worry a bit for Jon. Between sending Mel away and Littlefingers goals/the look he gave Sansa, I could see some plotting against Jon for sure. Not by Sansa so much as Littlefinger. I hope Littlefinger is one of the first to die to the WW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, StarkofWinterfell said: I don't think a lack of mention necessarily disproves something unless it is explicitly disproved. You are using that to explain the actions of the characters in the show. If that was the reasoning for Royce to support Jon as KitN, we would have been said, because it would make more sense than them just standing there for no obvious reason. Alas, it didn't. Again, TV show has its own canon. What hasn't been mentioned is not valid, as many things won't play the role in the TV show. If they would have to disprove everything from ASOIAF, WOIAF, DnE stories to make sure it is not part of the canon, then that would be everything they would do. Simply, no time for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, Risto said: You are using that to explain the actions of the characters in the show. If that was the reasoning for Royce to support Jon as KitN, we would have been said, because it would make more sense than them just standing there for no obvious reason. Alas, it didn't. Again, TV show has its own canon. What hasn't been mentioned is not valid, as many things won't play the role in the TV show. If they would have to disprove everything from ASOIAF, WOIAF, DnE stories to make sure it is not part of the canon, then that would be everything they would do. Simply, no time for that. You are correct in your assumption that there would be no time for that, ergo, they keep most of what's already been established for the sake of simplicity and continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 5 minutes ago, StarksNTargs said: It does make me worry a bit for Jon. Between sending Mel away and Littlefingers goals/the look he gave Sansa, I could see some plotting against Jon for sure. Not by Sansa so much as Littlefinger. I hope Littlefinger is one of the first to die to the WW. it's sure that he will plot something, he wants the warden of the north position, but Sansa said to Jon that she knows his schemings, they will unite against him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 minute ago, Future Null Infinity said: it's sure that he will plot something, he wants the warden of the north position, but Sansa said to Jon that she knows his schemings, they will unite against him As he said, he wants Iron Throne, and he can't get that without support of the North, which he wanted to have through Sansa, but Jon took right under his nose. I believe that Sansa is aware of this and will be the one on the watch for Baelish's actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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