Mistress of Lemon Cakes Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 6 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said: Yes, the issue is that most people here seem to believe or try to believe that King in the North is a title you can inherit. It is not. Then why does Lyanna Mormont go out of her way to say "Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is Stark' It is absolutely a hereditary thing when the House of their Liege Lord is mentioned. This world is based on a feudal society. You don't just get to go "lol you are an awesome commander (even when you're not in the only example they have of you) here's the title of King. have fun!" He certainly did not win by right of conquest because he did not conquer anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 12 minutes ago, Mistress of Lemon Cakes said: Then why does Lyanna Mormont go out of her way to say "Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is Stark' It is absolutely a hereditary thing when the House of their Liege Lord is mentioned. This world is based on a feudal society. You don't just get to go "lol you are an awesome commander (even when you're not in the only example they have of you) here's the title of King. have fun!" He certainly did not win by right of conquest because he did not conquer anything. Only Lyanna Mormont remembered. And Mormont is like one of the poorest houses in the North. No one else in the North took it seriously. Don't forget that only her mentioned it that way. The King in the North isn't inherited. Manderly said something like "I didn't believe to see another King again" or so along the line (go back to the video and check it). For a title to be valid, you need the majority to accept it, the Northern people simply almost forgot it. After Robb was killed, they all accepted to go back to be a part of whole kingdom again, there was no kingdom in the north during the whole time Boltons ruled it. The only valid title that can be inherited is Lady/Lord of Winterfell. King in the north is man-made title by some northern lords. They can always take it back. (Of course we are not talking about the time before Targaryen conquered Westeros). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastLibrarian Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Sansa trusted the True King Stannis to give her rights on Winterfell if he won (she said that 2 times in the show), she didn't trust the bastard, the dumb bastard took Winterfell from her only one day after the victory, you can see now why the True King is the man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 21 minutes ago, TheLastLibrarian said: Anyone one of you think that Jon Targaryen can usurp winterfell from the starks like that if the True King Stannis won against the Boltons? King Stannis will behead him for that, King Stannis is just and he loves the starks and he will never let a miserable bastard rule Winterfell FakeJon has far more important things to do than just lord it over them or “usurp” anything. An it isn’t usurpation anyway. Plus he isn’t a bastard: FakeJon is the Prince Who Was Promised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 15 minutes ago, Mistress of Lemon Cakes said: Then why does Lyanna Mormont go out of her way to say "Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is Stark' It is absolutely a hereditary thing when the House of their Liege Lord is mentioned. This world is based on a feudal society. You don't just get to go "lol you are an awesome commander (even when you're not in the only example they have of you) here's the title of King. have fun!" He certainly did not win by right of conquest because he did not conquer anything. The King in the North is a war title. Sansa is a woman; she cannot lead troops into battle. She could never have that title no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 1 minute ago, TheLastLibrarian said: Sansa trusted the True King Stannis to give her rights on Winterfell if he won (she said that 2 times in the show), she didn't trust the bastard, the dumb bastard took Winterfell from her only one day after the victory, you can see now why the True King is the man Lolllll thank you for the trolling lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastLibrarian Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 12 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said: Lolllll thank you for the trolling lesson. Respect yourself please and respect the other opinions, putting my opinion in this forum is not trolling, I don't know who you are and I don't know why you are playing the police in this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Snow Stark Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 25 minutes ago, TheLastLibrarian said: Sansa trusted the True King Stannis to give her rights on Winterfell if he won (she said that 2 times in the show), she didn't trust the bastard, the dumb bastard took Winterfell from her only one day after the victory, you can see now why the True King is the man On the show King Stannis offered the North to Jon if he would knee before him. What happened is basically what Stannis wanted, the North to follow Jon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiww3Z6C884 And Jon rejected it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbyUSCrY8QA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leticia Stark Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 48 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said: King in the north isn't a title you inherit. When Robb was killed, most Northern lords stopped their campaign for independence from the south and they cowardly suffered the Boltons, thus there was no kingdom in the north during that time. There is no kingship to inherit. Robb didn't inherit the kingship from Ned either. He was voted. The only valid title that last through all the wars and battes is Lord/Lady of Winterfell. Why is it so hard for people to understand that... Sansa is currently called Lady of Wintefell which means she still gets her birthright. That's exactly what I got from the scene. Thanks for explaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastLibrarian Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 23 minutes ago, captaindargo said: On the show King Stannis offered the North to Jon if he would knee before him. What happened is basically what Stannis wanted, the North to follow Jon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiww3Z6C884 And Jon rejected it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbyUSCrY8QA Jon rejected because he's a dumb bastard, I'm glad that he didn't make alliance with The True king, wars is not Jon's thing, also for him the usurpation is far easy than winning wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuron Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said: King in the north isn't a title you inherit. When Robb was killed, most Northern lords stopped their campaign for independence from the south and they cowardly suffered the Boltons, thus there was no kingdom in the north during that time. There is no kingship to inherit. Robb didn't inherit the kingship from Ned either. He was voted. The only valid title that last through all the wars and battes is Lord/Lady of Winterfell. Why is it so hard for people to understand that... Sansa is currently called Lady of Wintefell which means she still gets her birthright. This isn't correct, either. As someone earlier mentioned, The Lord/Lady of Winterfell is a separate title from KitN, but the KitN title can be inherited. Nobody inherited the title from Robb because the North gave up their independece and swore fealty to the Iron Throne after he died. If the North had decided to remain independent and continue fighting, they would have needed a king. The North had a hereditary king up until the last Stark king bent the knee to Aegon the Conqueror. Jon was declared KitN after he led the battle to depose the current ruler, The Boltons, who had been given rule of the North by the Iron Throne. The North only had 2 options at that point, accept and punishment or consequences from the Crown or declare their independence and name a king. The king didn't have to be a Stark, but Jon led the revolt and had Stark blood so tradition took over and they named him, but they could have named anyone. Jon being king doesn't have any effect on the line of succession of Winterfell, but it could cause issues generations down the road if you get multiple lines of Starks, similar to the Targs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweiny91 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 On 6/30/2016 at 7:45 PM, of man and wolf said: We all know Sansa knows that Bran is possibly still alive. We also probably know that Jon saw Summer and Shaggy kill some wildlings when he ran from them, and I think, if memory serves me right, that Sam even mentioned seeing them alive. So how can Jon be named king in the North? He would have to tell his Northern lords and make them aware of this. Then they would have to hold out until Bran returns or some such thing??? you really think with what's coming for them theyre just gonna wait around for bran to come dont be ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Snow Stark Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, TheLastLibrarian said: Jon rejected because he's a dumb bastard, I'm glad that he didn't make alliance with The True king, wars is not Jon's thing, also for him the usurpation is far easy than winning wars HA! Stannis burned his daughter at the stake and lost. Jon tried to save his brother. Jon got to beat the snot out of Ramsey. Stannis got an off screen death. I would say Jon was smart to reject Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweiny91 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 also the question of who gets Winterfell is silly, the Starks have been kings of the north and where do they live? In Winterfell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeria_Stark Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 2 hours ago, captaindargo said: This is why I like the idea that the Lord of Winterfell and King in the North are two separate titles. Sansa is lady of Winterfell by birthright unless Bran returns but King in the North is chosen by the Lords and Ladies of the North. I hope they make this clear on the show. I wish they were going to show the two Stark children working together seamlessly but that's not where they are heading. I think once Bran gets back to Winterfell he will also talk about the threat coming from beyond the well. Bran will probably encourage them to continue to follow Jon as King. He will probably give up an lordship over Winderfell to Sansa. You made a great point here. But this does raise more questions... The Starks have always rules the north from Winterfell. So how can the Kingin the North and the Lord/Lady of Winterfell rule from the same castle? Also, would the North be treated like the rest and be divided into smaller regions, each to be ruled by the (former?) Stark bannermen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Snow Stark Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Just now, schweiny91 said: also the question of who gets Winterfell is silly, the Starks have been kings of the north and where do they live? In Winterfell... You're right but now you have a situation where the capital of the kingdom has its own lord/lady and the king lives there like DC. DC was never intended to have a mayor but now it does. The president still lives there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einheri Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Best case scenario for Sansa: She's still the ruler of a burnt out castle and a depopulated area. Her power and status is greatly diminished compared to what it would have been if she had became Queen or even just the Wardress of the North. Now she's just another banner(wo)man of King Jon. The show hasn't done Robb's will, so for all we know she hasn't been put aside in favor of Jon, so barring Bran making a reappearance, she probably should have been hailed as Robb's successor. Instead the Northern Lords got to decide who should be the next King/Queen, and she was set aside in favor a bastard. Interestingly, it seems that what basically happened last episode is that Northern nobility might quite possibly have succeeded in establishing a new precedent where they get to elect who becomes King/Queen of the North in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Snow Stark Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 3 minutes ago, Nymeria_Stark said: You made a great point here. But this does raise more questions... The Starks have always rules the north from Winterfell. So how can the Kingin the North and the Lord/Lady of Winterfell rule from the same castle? Also, would the North be treated like the rest and be divided into smaller regions, each to be ruled by the (former?) Stark bannermen? I think if they are going with separate titles then yes Jon would probably will live in the castle with Sansa and its war time I don't think they will be building him a new castle. Maybe eventually it will be divided but I think for now the North will stay as it is except it has a King again over all the lords. I don't think Jon will stay king long he will either die again and the North will be reabsorb into 7 Kingdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Ghost- Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Couldn't Jon just take the Dreadfort for himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 some of you must be big fans of jon snow. howcome you say jon was chosen as king just because he is a warrior? and how come you say king in the north is not inherited through house stark? house stark were kings in the north for like 8000 years. look at their tombs. if jon is not the only current and abailable son of ned stark, just a warrior with another name, do you think people will stillchoose him as king? seriously? i agree with someone above. jon snow is not affected by rules. he is the destined one, the chosen one. bastardy and lawful claim are big deals for other people, but not for him. when it comes to jon snow, nothing matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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