Will Jon and Sansa become romantically involved?

[Britisher]

1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

And yet whose sword is against Sansa's throat?

Sansa will break the giant's sword.

[The Fattest Leech]

1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

And yet whose sword is against Sansa's throat? Who demands a song? Who does she sing for? Whose cloak did she keep?

Sooo, are you saying that  Sansa has already been stolen (married)?

[sweetsunray]

7 minutes ago, Britisher said:

Sansa will break the giant's sword.

Sansa will 'slay' the giant, and the Giant's Lance will kill a whole lot of people. Giants are related to the 'Mountain', 'LF' and 'Tyrion'.

The man who held a sword against her throat several times, the man she sang for, whose cloak she keeps in a cedar (hope) chest, and she roots for to be the champion isn't a giant. He's a dog, a hellhound, who broke away from the Lions and wants to get into service with the underworld Starks => Hercules in his lion skin may have taken Cerberus from Hades for a while, but Cerberus returns to Hades to do his duty there.

[sweetsunray]

13 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Sooo, are you saying that  Sansa has already been stolen (married)?

If Ygritte can regard herself as 'stolen' because Jon held a sword against her throat, I guess that Sansa is indeed 'stolen' already. The guys are a bit dummies in that regard, because they need to be told after the fact  

[Britisher]

On the side:

From Jon's perspective marriage to Sansa would allow him to consolidate his support across the North and the Vale (and possibly even the Riverlands), whilst allowing him to remain at Winterfell/Castle Black. Marrying Val would serve little politically: freefolk are freefolk. Marrying Daenerys could force him south and leave him without support from much of the North.

From Sansa's perspective marriage to Jon would allow her to remain at Winterfell and it could safe-guard her from being forced to remarry. Marrying Tyrion or Aegon would drag her into the wars of the south.

I think Sansa will end up at Winterfell due to the heavy symbolism of the snow castle chapter, and that Jon, Arya and Bran will join her.

[The Fattest Leech]

3 minutes ago, Britisher said:

On the side:

~snipped~

It doesn't and it is actually very against forum rules to talk about the show in the book forums and to try and use them as canon for the book story. You many want to change that post because one has nothing to do with the other and you risk getting modded.

[Britisher]

2 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

It doesn't and it is actually very against forum rules to talk about the show in the book forums and to try and use them as canon for the book story. You many want to change that post because one has nothing to do with the other and you risk getting modded.

Sorry about that - I don't could it as canon although I do believe that the more major plot directions of the TV series will occur in the books.

 

[The Fattest Leech]

12 minutes ago, Britisher said:

On the side:

From Jon's perspective marriage to Sansa would allow him to consolidate his support across the North and the Vale (and possibly even the Riverlands), whilst allowing him to remain at Winterfell/Castle Black. Marrying Val would serve little politically: freefolk are freefolk. Marrying Daenerys could force him south and leave him without support from much of the North.

From Sansa's perspective marriage to Jon would allow her to remain at Winterfell and it could safe-guard her from being forced to remarry. Marrying Tyrion or Aegon would drag her into the wars of the south.

I think Sansa will end up at Winterfell due to the heavy symbolism of the snow castle chapter, and that Jon, Arya and Bran will join her.

What about Rickon???

I think Jon will be somewhere else and tend to think of Queenscrown (if it survives the WW battles) because of it's history and layout. It is ready and waiting to be rebuilt and occupied, possibly by the many wildlings now south of the wall that need a place to go as they learn how to integrate. Just an idea.

[Britisher]

6 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

What about Rickon???

I think Jon will be somewhere else and tend to think of Queenscrown (if it survives the WW battles) because of it's history and layout. It is ready and waiting to be rebuilt and occupied, possibly by the many wildlings now south of the wall that need a place to go as they learn how to integrate. Just an idea.

The snow castle chapter references Arya, Bran and Jon throughout its course - but no Rickon. I think Sansa will retake Winterfell, possibly with Jon's help, and will attempt to call the pack together. Arya and Bran (and/or Jon) will help her rebuild the castle, and together they might survive the Winter. With this I fear that Rickon will die before he can unite with the pack.

[kissdbyfire]

2 minutes ago, Britisher said:

The snow castle chapter references Arya, Bran and Jon throughout its course - but no Rickon. I think Sansa will retake Winterfell, possibly with Jon's help, and will attempt to call the pack together. Arya and Bran (and/or Jon) will help her rebuild the castle, and together they might survive the Winter. With this I fear that Rickon will die before he can unite with the pack.

Spoiler

And this was pretty much the show's "plot" this year. Tell me, is this what you thought would happen before you watched series 6? 

 

[The Ned's Little Girl]

15 minutes ago, Britisher said:

On the side:

From Jon's perspective marriage to Sansa would allow him to consolidate his support across the North and the Vale (and possibly even the Riverlands), whilst allowing him to remain at Winterfell/Castle Black. Marrying Val would serve little politically: freefolk are freefolk. Marrying Daenerys could force him south and leave him without support from much of the North.

From Sansa's perspective marriage to Jon would allow her to remain at Winterfell and it could safe-guard her from being forced to remarry. Marrying Tyrion or Aegon would drag her into the wars of the south.

I think Sansa will end up at Winterfell due to the heavy symbolism of the snow castle chapter, and that Jon, Arya and Bran will join her.

The Westerosi "business as usual" of politics and alliances and family-to-family relationships by marriage are going to be as useful as nipples on a breastplate very soon. Because Winter is here, the Wall may fall, the WWs may invade, the devastation that is already widespread due to the War of Five Kings will only get worse with the upcoming Dance with Dragons 2.0.

Even before the actual hammer falls, Jon Snow at least understands (understood) the main threat. He already was groping toward re-orienting his group to operate according to very different parameters than the old familiar ones. I suspect he will know even more about that once he recovers from his little stabbing incident. Then, his challenge might be to re-orient the rest of Westeros to those new operating parameters.

Marrying Val may "serve little politically" in old-world Westeros. But that world is already in its death-throes (99.9% of the people don't yet see it; they're like the lobsters in the pot of gradually-heating water). Who marries who, and who gains what thereby, are irrelevant by this point.

[sweetsunray]

1 minute ago, Britisher said:

The snow castle chapter references Arya, Bran and Jon throughout its course - but no Rickon.

No it does not. It references Jon Arryn, Robert Arryn, her father, Arya, Robb and Bran, Jory, and not even throughout. Oh and the castle gets destroyed and trashed. 

[Britisher]

1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

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And this was pretty much the show's "plot" this year. Tell me, is this what you thought would happen before you watched series 6? 

 

Spoiler

Yes. I am certain that Arya, Sansa and Bran will reach Winterfell, although I am not sure about Jon and am not convinced that he will survive the series.

 

[The Fattest Leech]

11 minutes ago, Britisher said:

The snow castle chapter references Arya, Bran and Jon throughout its course - but no Rickon. I think Sansa will retake Winterfell, possibly with Jon's help, and will attempt to call the pack together. Arya and Bran (and/or Jon) will help her rebuild the castle, and together they might survive the Winter. With this I fear that Rickon will die before he can unite with the pack.

I don't think it does because Sansa thinks everyone in her family is dead. She thinks of her siblings in the past, when they were growing up.

A Storm of Swords - Sansa IV

That was such a sweet dream, Sansa thought drowsily. She had been back in Winterfell, running through the godswood with her Lady. Her father had been there, and her brothers, all of them warm and safe. If only dreaming could make it so . . .

She threw back the coverlets. I must be brave. Her torments would soon be ended, one way or the other. If Lady was here, I would not be afraid. Lady was dead, though; Robb, Bran, Rickon, Arya, her father, her mother, even Septa Mordane. All of them are dead but me. She was alone in the world now.

[kissdbyfire]

2 minutes ago, Britisher said:

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Yes. I am certain that Arya, Sansa and Bran will reach Winterfell, although I am not sure about Jon and am not convinced that he will survive the series.

 

Fair enough, but that's not exactly what I asked. I'll rephrase it.

Spoiler

Did you think that Sansa would retake Winterfell with Jon's help and that Rickon would die before you watched s 6?

 

[Britisher]

29 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Fair enough, but that's not exactly what I asked. I'll rephrase it.

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Did you think that Sansa would retake Winterfell with Jon's help and that Rickon would die before you watched s 6?

 

Quote

Spoiler

Yes I knew Sansa would retake Winterfell. As for Jon helping her - I knew it was possible and that they would meet again, although I was not certain (admittedly I'm still not sure whether or not he will help her in the books). Rickon will not reach (a restored) Winterfell and he will not meet Sansa again although I believe it's possible that he could reach the Wall. From the snow castle chapter I believe Sansa will end up as the Lady of Winterfell or the Queen in the North.

 

[GhostNymeria]

4 hours ago, Joan Jett said:

First off OP, the very first line in that post by tze you linked is incorrect. 

Sansa and Rickon. Sansa and Bran. Sansa and Robb. They never interact in "present time". Jon and Sansa never interacting is not a special case that will lead to romance. 

Getting onto the other things in your post:

Jon is not the only Stark child most assocated with the Starks. Arya and Jon both have the Stark looks and they both are connected to the Old Gods. So there is no opposite ends anti parallel between just Jon/Sansa here. 

This "parallel" applies to every other Stark child. Robb, Arya, Bran, Rickon as well as other characters.  It's not a parallel between Jon and Sansa. 

How exactly is this a parallel? If they had both lost their wolves, then I might understand, but this just doesn't work. With this logic you could create a parallel between Sansa and any character that has died. 

She did not hear Ghost howling. The quote says that she heart a "ghost wolf". What is a ghost wolf? A wolf that has died. Sansa's wolf died. It's the ghost of her own dead wolf, Lady.

Looking at the rest of the parallels, they're super shaky, especially the one foreshadowing their marriage. 

Anyway, I think this parallel talk is pretty useless in this case because Jon has waaaaay more unique parallels with both Dany and Arya. Like a lot of them, throughout the series. Meanwhile Jon and Sansa hardly think of each other. 

I imagine Val will die in TWOW because of the foreshadowing about Jon being surrounded by skulls, and I never really took her seriously as a candidate anyway, she's just too stereotypical big-boobed blonde for me. 

I was going write a simular response, but you concluded my thoughts nicely.

Why I don't bye the "parallel/forshadowing" for Jon and Sansa as a future couple, is that the supposed clues that is presented only occurs in Sansa's POVs (or that one POV more likely). There's nothing in Jon's POVs that mirror this. There's no imagery that is connected to Sansa. And their parallelling stories isn't unique. Jon-Arya, Arya-Bran, Jon-Daenerys, Jaime-Bran and last but not least Jon-Jaime all have heavy parallels in their character arcs. And as Joan Jett wrote above, the Daenerys-Jon and Arya-Jon parallels are much more unique than with Jon-Sansa. It's because of Grrm's use of specific words in their thoughs and actions, that make that though or action mirror each other as an actual respons/continuation of the other. These two pairings have a bigger chance at happening because Grrm have made a much stronger connection between them.

And about the colour imagery: I doupt the white, grey and black colours in that chapter is representation of Jon and the night's watch. Grrm have used these colours when describing winter, cold and snow in Theon's, Bran's and Asha's POVs. 

[The Fattest Leech]

25 minutes ago, Britisher said:

Yes I knew Sansa would retake Winterfell. As for Jon helping her - I knew it was possible and that they would meet again, although I was not certain (admittedly I'm still not sure whether or not he will help her in the books). Rickon will not reach (a restored) Winterfell and he will not meet Sansa again although I believe it's possible that he could reach the Wall. From the snow castle chapter I believe Sansa will end up as the Lady of Winterfell or the Queen in the North.

But none of this points to a romantic relationship between Sansa and Jon if it happens that way. We have the internal thoughts of Jon and Sansa and not once do they have so much as a fleeting kissy-kissy thought of each other. Maybe Sansa will lessen her harsh criticism of thinking as Jon as below her for being a bastard, but that does not in any way = romance.

There are already armies inside and outside of Winterfell that are only loyal to the Starks. Why would they need the Vale via Sansa to magically come riding in? Sansa is not close to being finished with her story in the Vale. Even at CB, Jon is receiving visitors from northern houses and northern mountain clans (who are testing and approving his leadership qualities) in addition to the thousands of wildlings that are now loyal to Jon.

Why would Rickon have to go to the wall instead of a restored Winterfell? By the time the Rickon gets from where he is with Davos, the battle at WInterfell should be over. And there is a good chance the wall will have fallen by then (maybe). Bran could be back by the end of this, if not later by the end of Winds. Bran and Rickon come before Sansa anyway and she knows that. (Please someone correct my timing if I am off.)

[kissdbyfire]

@The Fattest Leech, I actually think Rickon will go to the Wall. Well, sorta. I think he'll go from Skagos to Winterfell through Eastwatch, because it's the best option to land a few ships since it's near-ish. Davos has a ship, and there are at least two or three other ships stranded there, as we learn from Davos and Cotter Pyke. Wouldn't it be something to have them land there with literally boatloads of cannibals?

 

[Britisher]

On 21/07/2016 at 9:59 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

But none of this points to a romantic relationship between Sansa and Jon if it happens that way. We have the internal thoughts of Jon and Sansa and not once do they have so much as a fleeting kissy-kissy thought of each other. Maybe Sansa will lessen her harsh criticism of thinking as Jon as below her for being a bastard, but that does not in any way = romance.

There are already armies inside and outside of Winterfell that are only loyal to the Starks. Why would they need the Vale via Sansa to magically come riding in? Sansa is not close to being finished with her story in the Vale. Even at CB, Jon is receiving visitors from northern houses and northern mountain clans (who are testing and approving his leadership qualities) in addition to the thousands of wildlings that are now loyal to Jon.

Why would Rickon have to go to the wall instead of a restored Winterfell? By the time the Rickon gets from where he is with Davos, the battle at WInterfell should be over. And there is a good chance the wall will have fallen by then (maybe). Bran could be back by the end of this, if not later by the end of Winds. Bran and Rickon come before Sansa anyway and she knows that. (Please someone correct my timing if I am off.)

My thoughts being that LF would hope to install Sansa as the Warden of the North with the armies of the Vale. 

I think we have more to come from Sansa's story before we have any battles around Winterfell involving Sansa - by which time Rickon could reach the Wall.