Daenerys = Dayne + Aerys

[Lurid Jester]

On September 6, 2016 at 3:02 PM, LiveFirstDieLater said:

This chapter just screams that there is something going on we don't understand... Might it just be R+L=J, of course it might, but the repeated references to saving the children makes me doubt...

Saving the children is kind of the whole point and reasoning behind R+L=J.  He knew that the people in power were capable of killing children and he wasn't going to let that happen again, or be a part of it.  Those feeling extend even to the incest twin's kids. 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

6 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Saving the children is kind of the whole point and reasoning behind R+L=J.  He knew that the people in power were capable of killing children and he wasn't going to let that happen again, or be a part of it.  Those feeling extend even to the incest twin's kids. 

The fact is that children is plural though...

Ned blames Robert and Jaime for the death of Rhaegar's children (Aegon and Rhaenys)... The difference he says is he does not kill children... Could it be about Cersei's kids, sure, clearly that's what his mercy is here.

But "must find a way to save the children" doesn't sound like he's thinking of the Lannisters....

Maybe it's just me ...

[Lurid Jester]

30 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

But "must find a way to save the children" doesn't sound like he's thinking of the Lannisters....

Maybe it's just me ...

There are three children directly threatened with death from Robert.  There are also potentially two "children" who still have the threat over their heads from the previous conflict.  

I'm not seeing where the disconnect is. 

[maudisdottir]

2 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

But wait, Jaime remembers her LEAVING in the morning... So the sail would be during the day, even a kid can't mistake that for midnight, but worth noting there is no mention of Viserys...

So in conclusion:

GRRM made a mistake (no fun)

Viserys was lying to Dany

It wasn't Rhaella that Jaime saw 

However you cut it the discrepancy is real...

"the morning of the day she left for Dragonstone" doesn't mean she sailed during the day, or in daylight.  It means she left the Red Keep in the morning, and sailed the same day.  It doesn't say what time of day, so  it's possible they waited until it was dark to set sail and avoid being caught.

OR, Viserys was talking about the flight from Dragonstone with Willem Darry and baby Dany.  George has either messed up, or Viserys/Dany did, or there's a reason for it.  I tend to think it's more likely the first, using the second (unreliable narrator) as an excuse.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

12 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

There are three children directly threatened with death from Robert.  There are also potentially two "children" who still have the threat over their heads from the previous conflict.  

Mum not seeing where the disconnect is. 

Ok so I'm drawing from more than just the two quotes I sighted above... But...

I'm gonna assume you mean Cersei's three Lannicest kids, along with Viserys and Dany...

what im trying to say is the connection between Ned's mercy (giving Cersei the chance to run), and Elia's murdered kids, and Lyanna's CHILDREN is what's being referenced... I don't think he's desperately worried about cersei's kids, I think he's a noble dude and offering mercy

But let's talk promises and bad dreams for a second... 

First talking to Robert about Dany getting married... And having her killed...

"Treachery was a coin the Targaryens knew well," Robert said. The anger was building in him again. "Lannister paid them back in kind. It was no less than they deserved. I shall not trouble my sleep over it."

"You were not there," Ned said, bitterness in his voice. Troubled sleep was no stranger to him. He had lived his lies for fourteen years, yet they still haunted him at night. "There was no honor in that conquest." 

"The Others take your honor!" Robert swore. "What did any Targaryen ever know of honor? Go down into your crypt and ask Lyanna about the dragon's honor!"

...Riding back from seeing Roberts Bastard at the whore house...

Ned let him prattle on. After a time, he quieted and they rode in silence. The streets of King's Landing were dark and deserted. The rain had driven everyone under their roofs. It beat down on Ned's head, warm as blood and relentless as old guilts. Fat drops of water ran down his face.

"Robert will never keep to one bed," Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm's End. "I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale." Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. "Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature."

... Then just to hammer home that we are talking plurals here...

"I will," Ned had promised her. That was his curse. Robert would swear undying love and forget them before evenfall, but Ned Stark kept his vows. He thought of the promises he'd made Lyanna as she lay dying, and the price he'd paid to keep them

...once more when Robert dies...

"Serve the boar at my funeral feast," Robert rasped. "Apple in its mouth, skin seared crisp. Eat the bastard. Don't care if you choke on him. Promise me, Ned." 

"I promise." Promise me, Ned, Lyanna's voice echoed.

"The girl," the king said. "Daenerys. Let her live. If you can, if it … not too late … talk to them … Varys, Littlefinger … don't let them kill her. And help my son, Ned. Make him be … better than me." He winced. "Gods have mercy."

... Echoed of course can mean more than once! And again she comes up in relation to Dany...

Certainly Varys had once been young. Ned doubted that he had ever been innocent. "You mention children. Robert had a change of heart concerning Daenerys Targaryen. Whatever arrangements you made, I want unmade. At once." 

"Alas," said Varys. "At once may be too late. I fear those birds have flown. But I shall do what I can, my lord. With your leave." He bowed and vanished down the steps, his soft-soled slippers whispering against the stone as he made his descent.

... Oh NO! After all that it might be too late to save Dany and we find Ned brooding in his cell...

There was no sun and no moon. He could not see to mark the walls. Ned closed his eyes and opened them; it made no difference. He slept and woke and slept again. He did not know which was more painful, the waking or the sleeping. When he slept, he dreamed: dark disturbing dreams of blood and broken promises.

...plural... Promises... Children... Only now does it seems that the promises are broken... Nothing changed with Jon, so far as Ned knows, but he Varys did tell him it may be too late to save Dany...

 

sorry for for the hodgepodge of quotes thrown together... Just trying to get my tinfoil conspericy across in a way that makes sense

[maudisdottir]

He dreamed of broken promises; did he actually break any though?  Outside of his dreams, I don't recall Ned every saying he broke his promises.  He felt guilty for keeping them.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

13 minutes ago, maudisdottir said:

He dreamed of broken promises; did he actually break any though?  Outside of his dreams, I don't recall Ned every saying he broke his promises.  He felt guilty for keeping them.

That is the only reference to broken promises I know of... Are you suggesting that the promises weren't broken, just that he dreamed of them theoretically being broken? Is the blood only in the dream too?

I don't think I buy it,

but this is also one of his last chapters, so not much to go on either way... 

But I do think it's noteworthy that he only thinks of them as broken at this point, not during any of his thoughts or dreams earlier...

[cgrav]

Maybe Jon's protection was the only promise of several he was able to keep.

if we take Jon's sending away of Dalla's baby as an analog of Ned's actions at the ToJ, then we should expect there to be another child somewhere that needed protection. While Gilly's child would be protected from Mel by the truth of his lowborn status, we know Ned didn't have the luxury of revealing the parentage of any decoy children that might be involved.

It seems common knowledge that sex happened at the ToJ, consensual or not, so it's conspicuous that nobody wonders where the resulting child is. Certainly someone would have put the pieces together that Lyanna was sexed upon and Ned returned with a child when he went to rescue her... Unless a decoy was used.

is it possible that a decoy was placed to save Jon? If so, I wonder if that decoy was taken for genuine and spirited away to become our present fAegon, replaced by the unfortunate baby that was actually killed.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

5 minutes ago, cgrav said:

Maybe Jon's protection was the only promise of several he was able to keep.

if we take Jon's sending away of Dalla's baby as an analog of Ned's actions at the ToJ, then we should expect there to be another child somewhere that needed protection. While Gilly's child would be protected from Mel by the truth of his lowborn status, we know Ned didn't have the luxury of revealing the parentage of any decoy children that might be involved.

is it possible that a decoy was placed to save Jon? If so, I wonder if that decoy was taken for genuine and spirited away to become our present fAegon, replaced by the unfortunate baby that was actually killed.

With multiple promises does come the possibility of some kept and some broken...

I don't see the switch of Gilly and Dalla's babies to be an analog of the ToJ... I think it's a closer parallel to Varys's pisswater prince story...

but nobody in the series has really even suggested that their was a kid born at the ToJ besides Ned... Why would one need a replacement? 

That said, I do like the idea of two children born at the ToJ, stark looking Jon and Targ featured Dany, leading to plural promises and his only being able to pass of Jon as his own... So take what I say with a grain of salt!

[maudisdottir]

8 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

That is the only reference to broken promises I know of... Are you suggesting that the promises weren't broken, just that he dreamed of them theoretically being broken? Is the blood only in the dream too?

I don't think I buy it,

I'm not sure of it either, but it's something that occurred to me as a possibility that in truth he didn't ever break a promise, only in his dreams.  Like a nightmare about something bad happening to Jon because Ned couldn't keep his secret.  It's a stretch, but possible.

I see people using "he thinks about breaking promises" as basis for an argument the same way they say "why did Ned say he hadn't thought about Rhaegar in a long time" when the text actually says he found himself remembering Rhaegar, not thinking about him.  Two different things.  Like thinking about something is not the same as dreaming about it.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

11 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

 

But wait, Jaime remembers her LEAVING in the morning... So the sail would be during the day, even a kid can't mistake that for midnight, but worth noting there is no mention of Viserys...

So in conclusion:

GRRM made a mistake (no fun)

Viserys was lying to Dany

It wasn't Rhaella that Jaime saw 

However you cut it the discrepancy is real...

The quote says Jaime saw her in the morning, getting on the wheelhouse to head down to the ship. It does not say that the ship sailed during daylight hours. Nobody is going to comment on a wheelhouse rolling through the streets during the day, but one at night, especially with guards, would be noticed...and by all the wrong sorts of people. It's safer to get the queen and the kid to the ship and keep them there until it's time to sail. It's not uncommon for ship passengers to board early and have to wait hours or even days before actually sailing. Average passengers would get off the ship, buy lunch, etc, but the queen wouldn't be able to do that, and there's no way she'd let her eight year old son out of her sight with war ravaging the realm, and Aerys running things. So below decks they stay, for safety reasons.

That said, I would not be surprised if Viserys fell asleep in the wheelhouse on the way to the docks, was carried aboard, woke up in a dark cabin, and thought it was night time.

In conclusion: the discrepancy may or may not be real. Also Viserys is not the best source of information, which we already knew. 

[cgrav]

 

The many promises of Ned, from the first book:

Quote

"War?" The fear was plain on Catelyn's face.

"It will not come to that," Ned promised her, praying it was true.

it comes to that

Quote

 Father had promised that they would meet Ser Barristan when they reached King's Landing,

Quote

His father had promised he would ride a real horse to King's Landing, but they'd gone without him

Obviously none of this happens to Bran.
 

Quote

"It is better than the songs," she whispered when they found the places that her father had promised her, among the high lords and ladies. 

King's Landing turns out to be more like the hospital from Jacob's Ladder. 

 

Quote

"Tell him that when you see him, milord, as it … as it please you. Tell him how beautiful she is."

"I will," Ned had promised her. That was his curse. Robert would swear undying love and forget them before evenfall, but Ned Stark kept his vows. He thought of the promises he'd made Lyanna as she lay dying, and the price he'd paid to keep them.

...

Good to you, Ned thought hollowly. "I will tell him, child, and I promise you, Barra shall not go wanting."

Barra's child is of course murdered.
 

Quote

 I promise you, no matter where you flee, Robert's wrath will follow you, to the back of beyond if need be."

Robert's wrath ends with the boar.
 

Quote

"Serve the boar at my funeral feast," Robert rasped. "Apple in its mouth, skin seared crisp. Eat the bastard. Don't care if you choke on him. Promise me, Ned."

Pretty sure Ned doesn't do that either.

 

Quote

Ned had lingered scarcely a fortnight with his new bride before he too had ridden off to war with promises on his lips. 

OK now this could actually be significant in the context of "Promise me, Ned". Apparently some of Ned's promises preceded the Tower of Joy - what was promised and to whom? Did he promise Robert he'd retrieve Lyanna, thus implying that he didn't really want to and that he failed?

 

[Venus414]

On September 8, 2016 at 8:48 AM, OuttaOldtown said:

Produce one quote that connects Aerys and Ashara, from the books, not your imagination..

I agree with you 100%, it's hysterical how people ignore clues to support their tinfoil theories..

If you read the books you would know Aerys was a known bismercher, all over his wife's handmaidens to the point Rhanerya was constantly sending them home.  Joanna Lannister was a fine example of what a perv he was.  Jamies memories of his raping his wife... Etc, etc... 

 

Obviously ly they would have crossed paths at Harrenhall, and they were both probably in kings landing when Elia was killed (we don't know for sure) but you would think that who over witness her "jump" in Starfall would see to it that her body was recovered... Unless it dissappeared into thin air... Or it's not what happened.

[OuttaOldtown]

1 hour ago, Venus414 said:

If you read the books you would know Aerys was a known bismercher, all over his wife's handmaidens to the point Rhanerya was constantly sending them home.  Joanna Lannister was a fine example of what a perv he was.  Jamies memories of his raping his wife... Etc, etc... 

 

Obviously ly they would have crossed paths at Harrenhall, and they were both probably in kings landing when Elia was killed (we don't know for sure) but you would think that who over witness her "jump" in Starfall would see to it that her body was recovered... Unless it dissappeared into thin air... Or it's not what happened.

So what! Authors use actual clues, you're leaping to a massive conclusion, the text suggests nothing of the sort at any time. Maybe you should try using  reading comprehension..

[Voice]

On 8/28/2016 at 0:42 PM, Venus414 said:

Sorry this is so informal, please bear with me. I only just finished the books and i have come up with a theory that has held its own amongst seasoned readers: 

 

I think Aerys is the one that dishonored Ashara. 

GRM uses names to describe his characters all the time.. I shouldn't have to explain that, Bc it's obvious.

Ashara turned to Stark (Lyanna the mystery knight-a female) at the tourney 

That's why all Rhaeghers buddies danced with her including the Starks, Oberynn, etc- to protect her &Ned probably did fall in love but didn't get her pregnant (remember that Rhaeghar was plotting to overthrow his mad father with these men) 

If a pregnancy resulted- this baby would be fAegons age (there was a 3 year time span- she could have had two with Aerys for all we know) 

we don't know where Ashara went after that- but we have Ned going home to call his banners with the fishermans daughter later..  I don't know who she was for sure-but we do know they took off around The Fingers..  If anyone knows, it was Baelish. 

Selmy hears later that Ashara had a baby girl and killed herself.  No body.... (Thats odd - she wasn't there) 

Selmy only heard things about her- except he knew that Dani looks just like Ashara only more Targaryen (purple eyes and mothers features, dads hair) 

Dani remembers the lemon trees fondly Bc Ashara took her home to Dorne for a time and had told some people she was the trueborn princess' wet nurse

Explains the pact.  Dorne helped them.

 

Explains her name- after the Former Targ Dani that married Martell- that was loved dearly. It also spells out who she is.

Explains needing blood magic to hatch the dragons 

Pjs dragon vids explain that part better than I can 

i also believe that lyannas abduction was made up by Baelish to stop Cats marriage and it only partially worked (Bc she then married Ned- who he also destroyed with words).  The fact Lyanna was allegedly taken to Dorne is interesting.  Starfall is in Dorne... Nothing else about the place adds up.  Ned took the opportunity to see Ashara.  He told Robert not to come with! His memory of the event was so fuzzy that his men were "wraiths" and then he passed out for a couple days. He was devastated and "compromised" like a great deal of characters that end up receiving visions in the story.. So I can't really put too much faith in it! 

No one ever claimed to have seen Ned on the way home with a baby.

We only have Cat saying that he, Jon, and Wyla, were already there when she returned with Rob. 

Ashara was sent to dragonstone, from Dorne (or KL?) because Rhaella would know and care about her.  She had a baby on the way there during a storm.  Rhaella had a long history of still births and could have died in childbirth or during the storm for all we know. Here's Ashara in dragonstone with a targ looking daughter, she hatched a plan to pose as the "princess' wet nurse and leaves.

(I can't explain everything, not even close, because there are too many holes.  If anyone has anything to add to this I'm interested) 

 

//slightly unrelated 

I also think Jon was born in the crypts of winterfell Bc of bale the bard and Mance is his dad - Neds memory of Lyanna on the tower was manipulated somehow (he passed out) 

but that's a post for another day.  

I'm probly wrong but that's where I'm at.  

Please don't reply to this with a non-cannon HBO info graphic.

 

 

(someone shared a Reddit post that she found on the topic, which I find amazing, pasted below) 

A+A=D

Disclaimer: I’ve posted on this topic in the past, but given the new supporting evidence in WOIAF I thought it would be fun to make a new post that included the additional evidence. I think Aerys + Ashara = Daenerys.

The Theory:

Ashara Dayne was at King’s Landing before or during the sack, and the Mad King forced himself on her during this time period. She then returned to Starfall in the early stages of pregnancy. Ashara feared for her child’s life, given its Targaryen blood and its being the offspring of the Mad King. She remained at Starfall until Ned arrived to return Dawn. Ned and Ashara then came up with a plan that would help protect both Jon Snow and Ashara’s soon-to-be born child. Ashara would fake her death and go into hiding with her child, and Ned (along with other members of House Dayne) would lie about what happened to Ashara as well as who Jon’s parents were. This allowed rumors, such as Ned conceiving Jon with Ashara and Ashara killing herself over losing her child and her brother, to spread. These lies and rumors would hide who the children’s true parents were, as well as conceal what happened to Ashara and her child.

Ashara gave birth to her child, and with the help of Doran Martell, hid her child at the Water Gardens where the child would blend in with other foster children (the Water Gardens fostered children from all across Dorne as well as the southern Free Cities, where the Valyrian Freehold features were common). Ashara named her child Daenerys. As time passed and Robert’s rule became more and more certain, Doran no longer wanted to risk housing Aerys’s child inside Dorne. He had Oberyn give Dany to Ser Willem Darry when he went to Braavos to sign the marriage pact between Viserys and Arianne. Ser Willem passed away from wasting sickness at some point afterwards, and Viserys raises Dany from this point, traveling from free city to free city. 

Evidence supporting Aerys forced himself on Ashara:

Aerys had multiple affairs and was a sexual libertine.

He loved music, dancing, and masked balls, and was exceedingly fond of young women, filling his court with fair maidens from every corner of the realm. Some say he had as many mistresses as his ancestor Aegon the Unworthy (a most unlikely assertion given all we know of that monarch). -Aerys II, TWOIAF

Aerys had a predilection for Rhaella’s lady companions.

Sadly, the marriage between Aerys II Targaryen and his sister, Rhaella, was not as happy; though she turned a blind eye to most of the king’s infidelities, the queen did not approve of his “turning my ladies into his whores.” -Aerys II, TWOIAF

Ashara was a lady companion for Elia, who the Mad King kept at King’s Landing during the sack. 

His choice would have been a young maiden not long at court, one of Elia’s companions … though compared to Ashara Dayne, the Dornish princess was a kitchen drab. -The Kingbreaker, ADWD

Martin suggests Ashara moved around during Robert’s rebellion, and wasn’t in Starfall the entire time. 

As to your speculations about Catelyn and Ashara Dayne... sigh... needless to say, All Will Be Revealed in Good Time. I will give you this much, however; Ashara Dayne was not nailed to the floor in Starfall, as some of the fans who write me seem to assume. They have horses in Dorne too, you know. And boats (though not many of their own). As a matter of fact (a tiny tidbit from SOS), she was one of Princess Elia's lady companions in King's Landing, in the first few years after Elia married Rhaegar. -SSM

Aerys would force himself on Rhaella, especially towards the end. 

They slept apart and did their best to avoid each other during the waking hours. But whenever Aerys gave a man to the flames, Queen Rhaella would have a visitor in the night. The day he burned his mace-and-dagger Hand, Jaime and Jon Darry had stood at guard outside her bedchamber whilst the king took his pleasure. “You’re hurting me,” they had heard Rhaella cry through the oaken door. “You’re hurting me.” In some queer way, that had been worse than Lord Chelsted’s screaming. -Jaime, AFFC

Evidence against Rhaella being Dany’s mother:

Rhaella was having fertility problems.

Relations between the king and queen grew even more strained when Rhaella proved unable to give Aerys any further children. Miscarriages in 263 and 264 were followed by a stillborn daughter born in 267. Prince Daeron, born in 269, survived for only half a year. Then came another stillbirth in 270, another miscarriage in 271, and Prince Aegon, born two turns premature in 272, dead in 273. -Aerys II, TWOIAF

Rhaella was somewhere around 37 to 39 years old at the time of Daenerys’s birth, making her even less fertile. 

According to the Targaryen family tree in the appendix of TWOIAF, Rhaella was born after Aerys, who was born in 244 AC. If she had Rhaegar at age 14 in 259 AC, she would be around 39 years old in 284 AC, the year Dany was born. 

Additional Random Evidence:

Barristan Selmy thinks Dany looks like Ashara.

Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara’s smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes. Sometimes when the queen looked at him, he felt as if he were looking at Ashara’s daughter…  -The Kingbreaker, ADWD

The house with the red door is the Water Gardens. I list several of the clues for this in my post here.

Dany makes several comments when Quentyn shows up in Meereen that appear to be GRRM setting up irony for when he reveals this.

Dany unrolled the parchment and examined it again. Braavos. This was done in Braavos, while we were living in the house with the red door. Why did that make her feel so strange? -Daenerys, ADWD

Prince Quentyn looked up in alarm. “The dragons know when she is near,” Ser Barristan told him. Every child knows its mother, Dany thought. -Daenerys, ADWD

“Tell me of this other Daenerys. I know less than I should of the history of my father’s kingdom. I never had a maester growing up.” Only a brother. -Daenerys, ADWD

FAQ

Why would Ashara fear for her child’s life?

It was well-known Robert had an extreme hatred of Targaryens. He tells Ned in AGOT, “I will kill every Targaryen I can get my hands on, until they are as dead as their dragons, and then I will piss on their graves.” Ashara may have not only been worried about Robert himself having her child killed, but some other house trying to win Robert’s favor might possibly make an attempt (Aegon and Rhaenys deaths perhaps made her fear this outcome).

Why would Ned want to help Ashara?

One of Ned’s primary goals is protecting children. There are several examples of this. When he tries to talk Robert out of the assassination attempt on Dany, he says,¨Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?” It’s one of the main reasons he agrees to Varys’s plan to lie about Joffrey’s parents. ¨Ned could not let that happen again. The realm could not withstand a second mad king, another dance of blood and vengeance. He must find some way to save the children.¨It’s also why he gives Cersei the chance to flee King’s Landing with her children before going to tell Robert the truth about Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella. 

Why does Dany think her mother is Rhaella?

Dany emphasizes several times that she doesn’t remember the majority of her childhood, and that most of what she knows is based off what Viserys told her. 

¨And perhaps the dragon did remember, but Dany could not. She had never seen this land her brother said was theirs, this realm beyond the narrow sea… 

Yet sometimes Dany would picture the way it had been, so often had her brother told her the stories… 

She did not remember Dragonstone either.¨ -Daenerys I, AGOT

Viserys has lied to Dany about her childhood and true mother.

Why would Viserys lie about Dany’s parents to everyone?

Dany would be more valuable to Viserys as a legitimate Targaryen rather than a bastard. Similar to how fAegon was raised to believe he was the real actual Aegon, Viserys could do the same with Dany. Keep in mind Viserys wanted to keep the bloodlines pure, and Dany is all he has left.

She had always assumed that she would wed Viserys when she came of age. For centuries the Targaryens had married brother to sister, since Aegon the Conqueror had taken his sisters to bride. The line must be kept pure, Viserys had told her a thousand times; theirs was the kingsblood, the golden blood of old Valyria, the blood of the dragon. Dragons did not mate with the beasts of the field, and Targaryens did not mingle their blood with that of lesser men. Yet now Viserys schemed to sell her to a stranger, a barbarian. -Daenerys I, AGOT

If Viserys ever became king, he probably would want everyone to believe his wife and children were full-blooded Targaryen. Dany not being legitimate would get in the way of that. Not to mention, Dany would be far more valuable as a legitimate Targaryen if he were to use her marriage as a bargaining chip to form an alliance with someone, like when he ¨sold¨ her to Khal Drogo.

Why does Viserys blame Dany for Rhaella’s death?

Viserys is being irrational, similar to how he blames Dany for the entire war.

“Viserys said once that it was my fault, for being born too late.” She had denied it hotly, she remembered, going so far as to tell Viserys that it was his fault for not being born a girl. He beat her cruelly for that insolence. “If I had been born more timely, he said, Rhaegar would have married me instead of Elia, and it would all have come out different. If Rhaegar had been happy in his wife, he would not have needed the Stark girl.” -Daenerys, ASOS

Also, Viserys blames Dany for the loss of Rhaella's crown. The crown was the last piece of Rhaella that remained in his life.

¨Dany waited for his words to be translated. “My crown is not for sale.” When Viserys sold their mother’s crown, the last joy had gone from him, leaving only rage.¨ ¨I took care of you. I taught you who you were. I fed you. I sold our mother’s crown to keep you fed.¨ -Daenerys X, ADWD

How do you explain Rhaella’s death?

The only information about Rhaella's death comes from Dany's account of her past. Dany says the following:

¨My mother died giving me birth, and my father and my brother Rhaegar even before that. I would never have known so much as their names if Viserys had not been there to tell me. He was the only one left. The only one.¨ - Daenerys, AGOT

¨They said that storm was terrible. The Targaryen fleet was smashed while it lay at anchor, and huge stone blocks were ripped from the parapets and sent hurtling into the wild waters of the narrow sea. Her mother had died birthing her, and for that her brother Viserys had never forgiven her. She did not remember Dragonstone either. They had run again, just before the Usurper’s brother set sail with his new-built fleet. By then only Dragonstone itself, the ancient seat of their House, had remained of the Seven Kingdoms that had once been theirs. It would not remain for long. The garrison had been prepared to sell them to the Usurper, but one night Ser Willem Darry and four loyal men had broken into the nursery and stolen them both, along with her wet nurse, and set sail under cover of darkness for the safety of the Braavosian coast.¨ - Daenerys I, AGOT

Dany mentions the garrison switched sides and imprisoned them. It's possible they killed Rhaella in an attempt to win Robert’s favor, or perhaps Rhaella died from wounds suffered during their escape.

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This is a topic of much discussion at The Hearth. I think you would enjoy the entire thread, but this part of the conversation in particular addresses "Dayne" + "Aerys":

http://thelasthearth.com/thread/572/dany?page=6&scrollTo=32854

[Venus414]

On September 20, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Voice said:

 

This is a topic of much discussion at The Hearth. I think you would enjoy the entire thread, but this part of the conversation in particular addresses "Dayne" + "Aerys":

http://thelasthearth.com/thread/572/dany?page=6&scrollTo=32854

Wow!! I see you posted this I have to share it!! I am one hundred percent behind you on this, "people see what they expect to see" I can't join a whole other forum as I only just joined this one, but I have the Mad Danelle Lothston page on FB as well as house Dayne of Starfall (but there's more than one of those) would love to pick your brain some more.  I also one hundred percent back the linguistics, it's obvious to the point of comedy "last one to the gate has to marry Uthor Shetts!" Hahaha Awesome, well done!! 

 

A few new comments came to mind regarding this OP, markg171 ...
 

markg171 said:

Dany I, is literally one big game of “dress up”. It’s literally a chapter where they specifically go over many times how they make Dany look like she’s a princess, of how she’s high blood, etc. And Dany’s uncomfortable through it all, Viserys doesn’t think it will work, etc. It’s all rather odd behaviour and actions for someone who actually is, you know an actual princess. It is odd behaviours all around.

 

Today, while listening to this OP, I was struck by something. Dany I... is, like, almost exactly what we find in Reek II ADWD:
 

They gave him a horse and a banner, a soft woolen doublet and a warm fur cloak, and set him loose. For once, he did not stink. “Come back with that castle,” said Damon Dance-for-Me as he helped Reek climb shaking into the saddle, “or keep going and see how far you get before we catch you. He’d like that, he would.” Grinning, Damon gave the horse a lick across the rump with his whip, and the old stot whinnied and lurched into motion.

 

It's a game of "dress up" for Reek. He feels as comfortable being clean, wearing furs, as Dany does being clean wearing silk. He even reflects upon the cruelty of his master the same way Dany reflects upon waking Viserys' dragon. 

With Theon, we are walked through his transformation from Theon to Reek to Theon, and so, can easily digest it. With Dany, we meet her just beyond the point of her brainwashing, I think, and therefore it is harder to accept she might not be "Dany." 



Not to go too crackpot on ya, but another thing I've been toying with over the years is the etymology of Daenerys' name. It's a force of habit to analyze language, and I find myself doing it even without meaning to, but anyway... 

Aerys, Arys, and Erys seem to be cognates of "Fire" in Valyrian. I'm a fan of the idea that GRRM uses real-world symbolism to strengthen the believability of his story, and I believe he chose this cognate because of Aries, a fire sign of the zodiac, connected to Mars and the mythological powers of fire, bloodshed, war, impulsiveness, power, lust, etc. Khal Drogo was basically Mars Incarnate, not to mention a likely Dothraki cognate of *Drac. Drac likely refers to Dragon, or "of the dragon". 

I gather these of course from the word dracaerys. 

"Drac"+"arys" = "dragonfire"

Daenerys has this same cognate in the last four letters of her name. The reason I mention this in relation to your (f)Dany hypothesis is that I believe the other part of her name (*daen) means "Dream." [Nevermind *daen's resemblance to a certain house, that like dreams themselves, seems tied to circadian rhythms.] We also have the tale of "Daenys the Dreamer" who is basically the Bran the Builder of House Targaryen. Anyway, when I read the name "Daenerys," I always think "dreamfire" because I'm a nerdy linguist and I can't help it. 

"Mad King Aerys" is "Mad King Fire" to me. "Viserys" reads like "Visceral Fire" or "Nonintellectual Fire." 

So I bring this up because it fits with Dany as being suspended in a false reality, a dream, like Reek. The coziness Dany feels with her starry khalasar has always made sense to me because of this. Dreams are at home with Stars. 

Dany is at home with Stars. Dreamfire = Nightfires = Stars. 

Dany is a very starry girl, and Viserys was not a very starry boy. He was sired by Fire itself, a fire that was mad and cruel.

Rhaegar was starry though. A man interested in the higher mysteries (= stars). And Ashara was the Starry Maiden from a red land. It all seems rather fitting, no?

Read more: http://thelasthearth.com/thread/572/dany?page=6&scrollTo=32854#ixzz4L7LAroC7

 

[Venus414]

On 9/6/2016 at 3:24 PM, Frey family reunion said:

If you look back to Viserys account of leaving Dragonstone with his mother, it varies very much from Jaime's recollection of Rhaella leaving Dragonstone. 

Viserys recalls that it was a midnight flight in a black sailed ship from King's Landing to Dragonstone.  Jaime recalls that a hooded Rhaella left one morning in a royal wheelhouse shortly after she was raped by Aerys, and there is no mention of Viserys.

There is a bit of a discrepancy between the two accounts.  Viserys story is fairly odd, because when Rhaella left King's Landing there probably would have been no need for a midnight flight in a black sailed ship, because at the time the rebellion had no navy to speak of.  It doesn't make much sense unless of course Rahella wasn't fleeing from the rebels, but was instead fleeing from Aerys, since based on past experience he was in the habit of raping her after he burned people alive.

Which makes me wonder, who it was that Jaime saw enter the wheelhouse?  I have a crackpot notion that it could have been Ashara operating under a glamour basically act as Rhaella's whipping girl and take the rape meant for her.

It sounds ludicrous, I know, but with so many parallels and homages to the King Arthur myths, maybe not so ridiculous.  After all, King Arthur was conceived only after his father magically disguised himself as the husband of another woman, and had intercourse with her under false pretenses.  This would be an inverse of the King Arthur myth.

Not sure how I missed this point previously but I tip my hat to your King Arthur nod, blue rose to that!