Could Robb have defeated Tywin?

[Blackfish Tully]

1 hour ago, Sullen said:

Robb was already engaged with Tywin when he begged Renly for help, Renly is the one waiting everything out, it's not really an option for Robb considering he has Tywin after him and he's stuck in the Westerlands.

 

Robb did not beg anybody for help, he sent his mother to see if he could make an alliance with Renly and/or Stannis but that's a long way from begging . 

Renly was slowly making his way to Kings Landing while Robb was the one who was sitting and waiting for Tywin and Renly to fight it out , you have it completely backwards and Robb did not have Tywin after him ( Tywin was stuck at Harrenhall)  was Robb was not stuck in the Westerlands , he was living off Tywin's resources and cutting Tywin off from those same resources but he could have left at any time. 

 

[dariopatke]

21 minutes ago, Sullen said:

Robb's whole plan hinged on Edmure letting Tywin pass so that he would be trapped in the Westerlands, and that Stannis could then take KL. If Robb isn't aware of Stannis moving towards King's Landing, the plan makes very little sense. Does he seriously intend to be able to keep Tywin in check for those 6 months before Stannis reaches King's Landing? Because that becomes a rather unrealistic plan.

My guess is that Tywin believed he could expel Robb quickly from the Westerlands before racing to King's Landing. He got pushed back by Edmure though, and ended up meeting up with the Tyrells and Littlefinger at Bitterbridge instead, still not making a run for King's Landing.

I agree about Robbs plan.

Yes, but he barely came in time to KL and that is only because Stannis' fleet had a rough journey.

[Sullen]

Just now, Blackfish Tully said:

Robb did not beg anybody for help, he sent his mother to see if he could make an alliance with Renly and/or Stannis but that's a long way from begging . 

Considering Catelyn's tone, it seriously sounded like he was begging for help.

1 minute ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Renly was slowly making his way to Kings Landing while Robb was the one who was sitting and waiting for Tywin and Renly to fight it out , you have it completely backwards and Robb did not have Tywin after him ( Tywin was stuck at Harrenhall)  was Robb was not stuck in the Westerlands , he was living off Tywin's resources and cutting Tywin off from those same resources but he could have left at any time.

Except that this contradicts everything we have in the books.

Robb is the only one who engages with Tywin, as Catelyn points out to Renly, and then to Stannis, it's an important point that you just seem to be willingly ignore, mate. Tywin's also fucking up the Riverlands while Renly just strolls around allied territory parading his strength and, as Catelyn again points out, doing nothing.

Tywin is living off the Riverlands while Robb does the same to the Westerlands, 

And again, we see Tywin be given a choice, he chooses to go after Robb as his priority, he's not "trapped" at Harrenhall at all.

[cgrav]

8 hours ago, The Frosted King said:

 

I understand everything you outline but i strongly disagree.

...

I would call most of these symptoms of Robb's middling leadership. He left Winterfell and the North vulnerable, sent his ward home, and couldn't secure firm control over his own bannermen or even mother. Don't forget that he lost a big chunk of his army because they couldn't or wouldn't stay on the campaign. Yeah, there were a lot of hardships that army had to deal with, but maybe Robb should have given those factors more weight.

Certainly disorganization can happen to anyone, but it happened to Robb because he did not have the full confidence of his people. That was his failing. His poor non-combat decisions were part of that. 

My issue is that at some point we end up writing a whole new character with "what ifs". That's why I pointed the difference between Tywin losing and Robb winning. Tywin could have been beat, but not by Robb (at least not without extraordinary luck). We can say what if Robb did this or that differently... but after too much of that we're not talking about Robb Stark anymore. Robb's decisions were the result of who he was.

I dont want to say that a Robb victory was utterly impossible, because unlikely things are still possible, but the odds were so unfavorable that a victory would be due to factors other than his skill and leadership. The strong underdog protagonist narrative makes the Red Wedding seem to come out of nowhere, but if we look back, it's clear that things are only getting harder and harder along the way. 

[Blackfish Tully]

1 hour ago, Sullen said:

Renly was purposefully dragging things on, throwing parties, keeping morale high, starving out King's Landing, while Robb was stuck having to fight Tywin. Robb never waited anything out, hell, as Cat angrily points out to Renly, he's the only one fighting the Lannisters at the moment.

 

your time line is messed up , Robb was fighting Tywin but then he went to the Westerlands and that's when he decided to wait Tywin and Renly out . Robb could stay in the Westerlands as long as he wanted to or he could go back to the Riverlands , he has zero  time pressure while Renly has a 100,000 soldier army moving (slowly) to Kings Landing and  he was eventually going to have to attack Kings Landing , he could not wait forever  if he ever wanted to be King. 

 

1 hour ago, Sullen said:

Robb will have considerably more trouble feeding himself in the Westerlands, which aren't especially plentiful in any case, and which are hostile on top of that.

 

 The Westerlands are one of the most populous and fertile parts of Westeroes and Robb has free rein in most of it . He could have feed he 6000 soldiers for years there with no problem , how long could Renly feed his 100,000 or how long could he afford to keep those 100,000 away from their fields in the Reach?

 

1 hour ago, Sullen said:

 

This notion that Robb could have waited while Renly and Tywin bled each other is ridiculous, it requires Renly to move against Tywin, and Renly made it very clear he wasn't willing to do anything until Robb pledged his allegiance. 

Again, you're completely ignoring Renly's whole strategy of staying inactive.

Renly and his men are chilling in Westeros's granary surrounded by allies, they don't lack food, even while manning the largest army we've seen in the books so far. Not only that, but they also closed the Roseroad, cutting out King's Landing of a massive amount of food that they can simply keep for themselves. Renly's in no rush, at all.

 

 Renly was heading for Kings Landing and a confrontation with Tywin was inevitable , there is really no choice in that . There is no way that Renly could avoid fighting Tywin unless he disbands his army and goes back to Storms End and i do not see that happening. 

[Sullen]

Just now, dariopatke said:

I agree about Robbs plan.

Yes, but he barely came in time to KL and that is only because Stannis' fleet had a rough journey.

Well, "barely".

He saved the city from falling, but the Red Keep is meant to withstand a weeks of siege. Add to that that Stannis pretty much would have destroyed the city by taking it, and would be stuck with no supplies whatsoever to feed the starving hostile population of King's Landing, and even a week or two late, Tywin comes out of it in an alright shape.

Time was a problem no matter what though, I agree.

[Blackfish Tully]

4 minutes ago, Sullen said:

Robb is the only one who engages with Tywin, as Catelyn points out to Renly, and then to Stannis, it's an important point that you just seem to be willingly ignore, mate. Tywin's also fucking up the Riverlands while Renly just strolls around allied territory parading his strength and, as Catelyn again points out, doing nothing.

 

That's at the begining of the war , we are talking about what happened later on in the war which you seem to be ignoring . 

Tywin is stuck in Harrenhall and Robb is camped in the Westerlands and Renly is moving towards Kings Landing . 

Tywin has to stay at Harrenhall for when Renly attacks Kings Landing . 

Renly has to take Kings Landing if he wants to be King .

Robb is the only one who has zero time pressure and can wait out the other two. 

[Sullen]

5 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

your time line is messed up , Robb was fighting Tywin but then he went to the Westerlands and that's when he decided to wait Tywin and Renly out . Robb could stay in the Westerlands as long as he wanted to or he could go back to the Riverlands , he has zero  time pressure while Renly has a 100,000 soldier army moving (slowly) to Kings Landing and  he was eventually going to have to attack Kings Landing , he could not wait forever  if he ever wanted to be King. 

Renly could and was waiting though, which is the source of Robb and Catelyn's frustrations.

Again, he's in no hurry. He's in friendly territory, has got plenty of food, and every day he waits, Robb gets weaker, Tywin gets weaker, and King's Landing starves a bit more. As he points out to Catelyn during their parley, he fully intends to sit the conflict out until the time comes to strike.

The notion that Robb waits during the first chapters of A Clash of Kings is also entirely false, he fights Stafford at Oxcross first, then takes Ashmark, all before Renly acts at all/dies. Face it, Robb was damaging Tywin, and losing men in the process. Essentially, the Lannister and Stark camps were bleeding each other, as Renly intended.

15 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

 The Westerlands are one of the most populous and fertile parts of Westeroes and Robb has free rein in most of it . He could have feed he 6000 soldiers for years there with no problem , how long could Renly feed his 100,000 or how long could he afford to keep those 100,000 away from their fields in the Reach?

The Westerlands aren't fertile. Rich, yes, but it's mostly hills.

Nothing compared to the Riverlands on which Tywin was feeding, or the Reach/the pantries of the Lords feeding Renly and his host.

17 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Renly was heading for Kings Landing and a confrontation with Tywin was inevitable , there is really no choice in that . There is no way that Renly could avoid fighting Tywin unless he disbands his army and goes back to Storms End and i do not see that happening. 

Again, Renly was taking his sweet ass time, thus Catelyn's frustration with him.

Renly fully intends to fight Tywin, but he prefers to wait until the odds are even more stacked in his favour, ie: after Robb and Tywin are done fighting each other, or until Robb bends the knee to him.

[Blackfish Tully]

7 minutes ago, Sullen said:

Renly could and was waiting though, which is the source of Robb and Catelyn's frustrations.

 

That's before Robb went West 

 

8 minutes ago, Sullen said:

Again, he's in no hurry. He's in friendly territory, has got plenty of food, and every day he waits, Robb gets weaker, Tywin gets weaker, and King's Landing starves a bit more. As he points out to Catelyn during their parley, he fully intends to sit the conflict out until the time comes to strike.

The notion that Robb waits during the first chapters of A Clash of Kings is also entirely false, he fights Stafford at Oxcross first, then takes Ashmark, all before Renly acts at all/dies. Face it, Robb was damaging Tywin, and losing men in the process. Essentially, the Lannister and Stark camps were bleeding each other, as Renly intended.

 

Robb is not getting weaker in the Westerlands, he has zero trouble taking two castles and the Riverlords are waiting in their castles . Robb has no pressure to make any move against Tywin after Oxcross. 

 

9 minutes ago, Sullen said:

The Westerlands aren't fertile. Rich, yes, but it's mostly hills.

Nothing compared to the Riverlands on which Tywin was feeding, or the Reach/the pantries of the Lords feeding Renly and his host.

 

The Westerlands are much more fertile then you give it credit for and Tywin had lost most of the Riverlands and was only able to live off what's around Harrenhall. Robb captured thousands  of cattle and had free rein in most of the Westerlands and only had 6000 men to feed while Tywin had 20,000 and Renly had 100,000. 

 

14 minutes ago, Sullen said:

.

Again, Renly was taking his sweet ass time, thus Catelyn's frustration with him.

Renly fully intends to fight Tywin, but he prefers to wait until the odds are even more stacked in his favour, ie: after Robb and Tywin are done fighting each other, or until Robb bends the knee to him.

While Renly was taking his sweet ass time Robb was parked in the Weterlands , If it was a waiting game Robb could wait a hell of a lot longer then Renly who had most of the Reach and Stormlands with him . How long could he keep such a huge army together ? and how long could the Reach afford to have 60,000 to 80,000 men away from their fields in the Reach? 

[Sullen]

1 minute ago, Blackfish Tully said:

That's before Robb went West 

That's at the same time.

Robb sends Theon and Catelyn as envoys, then heads West.

2 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Robb is not getting weaker in the Westerlands, he has zero trouble taking two castles and the Riverlords are waiting in their castles . Robb has no pressure to make any move against Tywin after Oxcross. 

Robb is fighting battles and storming castles, I highly doubt he does it while incurring zero casualties, not only that, but I doubt he leaves the castles he takes without any garrison. That's men that could have joined his main force that are technically lost here.

Any casualties on his side = getting weaker. Hell, losing Stevron at Oxcross was a massive blow for House Frey, and thus for the King in the North.

4 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

The Westerlands are much more fertile then you give it credit for and Tywin had lost most of the Riverlands and was only able to live off what's around Harrenhall. Robb captured thousands  of cattle and had free rein in most of the Westerlands and only had 6000 men to feed while Tywin had 20,000 and Renly had 100,000. 

Free reign? Not really, as Tywin decided to go after him eventually.

And again, wherever Renly stopped, lords threw their entire pantries at him, he was in no hurry at all.

4 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

While Renly was taking his sweet ass time Robb was parked in the Weterlands , If it was a waiting game Robb could wait a hell of a lot longer then Renly who had most of the Reach and Stormlands with him . How long could he keep such a huge army together ? and how long could the Reach afford to have 60,000 to 80,000 men away from their fields in the Reach? 

Not parked.

Fighting battles, storming castles, raiding as much as he could. Weakening the Lannister forces while he himself losing men along the way. That all works in Renly's favor. Renly was "parked", Robb was still technically fighting.

The Reach has a massive population, and the men following Renly are a professional army, they can survive even with their host marching.

Also, again, Renly has the support of the local population, and unbroken supply lines coming from the granary of the continent. He's not worried one bit.

[Bironic]

9 hours ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Robb is not getting weaker in the Westerlands, he has zero trouble taking two castles and the Riverlords are waiting in their castles . Robb has no pressure to make any move against Tywin after Oxcross. 

 

The Westerlands are much more fertile then you give it credit for and Tywin had lost most of the Riverlands and was only able to live off what's around Harrenhall. Robb captured thousands  of cattle and had free rein in most of the Westerlands and only had 6000 men to feed while Tywin had 20,000 and Renly had 100,000. 

 

While Renly was taking his sweet ass time Robb was parked in the Weterlands , If it was a waiting game Robb could wait a hell of a lot longer then Renly who had most of the Reach and Stormlands with him . How long could he keep such a huge army together ? and how long could the Reach afford to have 60,000 to 80,000 men away from their fields in the Reach? 

But Robb didn't have the manpower to take Casterly Rock, Lannisport or the Golden Tooth (at least not without the Ironborn and that wasn't gonna happen).

Meanwhile Tywin can live off the Riverlands(just as Robb lives off the Westerlands, but unlike Robb his army is actually a threat for all the castles in the Riverlands), because there's no army in the riverlands large enough to defeat him, because Roose has lost too many men and lacks cavalry, while Edmure let the Riverlords back to their castles what resulted in pyrrhic victories in the case of the Blackwoods, Pipers and Brackens and total defeat in the case of the Darrys, Mootons and Whents.

No Robb couldn't wait longer than Renly because Tywin was living off his lands not renlys. Furthermore if the reach is able to feed a population of 500'000 (Kings landing) they sure as hell can feed 100000. After all they stopped to send food to KL after Renlys coronation.

To the OP:  Yes I think Robb could have defeated Tywin in the field. Tywin is certainly a good commander but he is a better politician than a general. The best moment for Robb to attack Tywin was after retaking Riverrun. He should have ordered Roose to him and together with the Riverlords their numbers would have been roughly the same furthermore they would have the morale, the momentum, the knowledge of the terrain and the support of the smallfolk on their side.

If this would have meant the end of the lannisters? No not necessarily, since Tywin was commanding the reserve he would have probably retreated in good order when he saw that his army was defeated and as long as Tywin lives the Lannisters are not at an end.

[cgrav]

1 hour ago, Blackfish Tully said:

 

Robb is the only one who has zero time pressure and can wait out the other two. 

Robb has lots of time pressure. Much of his Riverlands force begged leave because they couldn't be away from their own lands any longer while the raids were going on. He was losing men even before his terrible decision to marry into a Lannister banner family.

Tywin succeeded in sowing discord among Robb's allies. The Riverfolk would want to go defend their homes, and of course they would soon come to resent the northern King waging his war in their land. 

[Blackfish Tully]

2 hours ago, cgrav said:

Robb has lots of time pressure. Much of his Riverlands force begged leave because they couldn't be away from their own lands any longer while the raids were going on. He was losing men even before his terrible decision to marry into a Lannister banner family.

Tywin succeeded in sowing discord among Robb's allies. The Riverfolk would want to go defend their homes, and of course they would soon come to resent the northern King waging his war in their land. 

That all happened before Robb went West . When Robb was in the West the Riverlords are all back in their castles and protecting their lands and there  was no time pressure on Robb. Robb could have sat in the West for months on end while Tywin and Renly were heading to certain battle at Kings Landing. 

[Blackfish Tully]

2 hours ago, Sullen said:

 

Free reign? Not really, as Tywin decided to go after him eventually.

 

Only after Renly was dead . Until then Tywin was not even thinking about moving West. 

 

2 hours ago, Sullen said:

.

The Reach has a massive population, and the men following Renly are a professional army, they can survive even with their host marching.

 

So the 100,000 men following Renly are all professional fighting men? that's not how these types of armies work . Most of Renly's men would be farmers and tradesmen . 

 

2 hours ago, Sullen said:

 

Fighting battles, storming castles, raiding as much as he could. Weakening the Lannister forces while he himself losing men along the way. That all works in Renly's favor. Renly was "parked", Robb was still technically fighting.

 

Robb was losing very few men in the West , The Westerland forces were hiding behind their walls and Robb had free rein to raid and take the Gold Mines and thousands of cattle and all the food he wanted . He could have stayed there for months . How long would Renly just park down the road from Kings Landing? Why would he wait any longer then he had to , he had the massive numbers advantage and there was no reason to just sit there when Kings Landing was there for the taking. 

[James Steller]

10 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

Robb was losing very few men in the West

To be fair, his force numbered more than 6,000 before Whispering Wood and he had only 3,500 men left before the Red Wedding began. That's a loss of almost half his forces.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 9/22/2016 at 2:52 PM, Marcus corvinus said:

No, Robb would've been crushed. Robb never defeated tywin as they never met in the field in a pitched battle. Robb defeated jaime and edmure one some skirmishes against the mountain;HE DID NOT DEFEAT TYWIN!!!

Tywin's army was far superior. He had the lannisport guard which was a professional standing army. He had division of pikemen who were clearly drilled as they could be expected to pull of complex maneuvers. And plus as the westerlands are the richest realm their troops have the best equipment in the realm. Plus nearly half the army are directly leavies of house lannister. Thus they have little leadership and loyalty issue. The southern lords are more like to use plate armor while the north uses mail. Plus you have tywin who commanded unquestioned obedience and respect from his lords and captains. 

Compare that to robb. The pathetic northern army. They are too poor to afford plate so most of them make do with mail. They have lesser heavy cavalry than tywin. And most have all their leadership isn't solid. Roose bolton's loyalty is shaky from the start. He'd probably preserve his force and not commit them at all in the case tywin's army got the lead. The northern lords are not respectful of robb and many try to test him by mocking him. Can you imagine any western lord dare pulling any stunt on tywin?

Plus the west have devoted and capable officers like kevan commanding the pike division, adam marbrand commanding the heavy horse. There are no roose boltons here, no karstarks or greatjons who are unsure of their leader.

In short, if robb took his full strength to the green fork to meet tywin it would've been a slaughter.

The Lannisport guards were not with Tywin's army. They were....guarding Lannisport.

The northern pikemen and spearmen were clearly trained enough to march in a double hedgehog formation. The amount of training required to do so is quite extensive. As to their equipment, the northern foot was similarly equipped to the Frey levy. Chainmail and ringmail along with helms and a polearm are pretty much standard fare for all infantry, from Robb's host to Stannis' to Renly's. 

When you say direct levies to House Lannister, do you mean that they raised half of the 35k men that Tywin brought east? I'd like to see how you got that. If you're talking about vassals pledged directly to CR, well Robb's men marching south were all in the same boat. There was a brief time when he commanded some riverlords like Jason Mallister who didn't owe him fealty. After his crowning, there might have been some houses who didn't swear directly to him (eg Frey or some other riverlords), but the vast majority of his host would have pledged to him directly. 

They do have less heavy cavalry, and I doubt Robb would have waited for the Mallisters to show up before he went against Tywin, but he is still gonna have ~5K or so heavy cavalry. Roose Bolton is obviously not a fan of Robb, but Karstark and Greatjon were pretty staunchly pro Robb.

It took quite a lot for the northern foot to break at the GF with basically no cavalry support and a numerically inferior force after a forced night march and abandoning a strong defensive position (while waiting for Tywin's forces to form up). I can easily see a bitter, significant loss for Robb if he confronted Tywin with his full army, but it's by no means a guaranteed slaughter. Pitched battles can and often do go in random ways. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

24 minutes ago, James Steller said:

To be fair, his force numbered more than 6,000 before Whispering Wood and he had only 3,500 men left before the Red Wedding began. That's a loss of almost half his forces.

There's a reason for that. The Freys left with their 1000 knights. The RL forces did not march with him to the Twins. He had his honor guard and whatever small accompaniment from their houses went with them. For example, Marq Piper:

“Lord Piper spoke from grief. Marq is his firstborn son. Those knights who accompanied him to the Twins were nephews and cousins all.”

We know of 3 RL nobles who were captured or killed at the RW: Hoster blackwood, Marq piper, and Patrek mallister. Pretty sure the lords and most of their forces just went home after the WL raids and the battle of the fords. He definitely suffered losses but the 3500 he took to the RW were merely the northerners he was taking back North to reclaim WF and MC.

[Blackfish Tully]

1 hour ago, James Steller said:

To be fair, his force numbered more than 6,000 before Whispering Wood and he had only 3,500 men left before the Red Wedding began. That's a loss of almost half his forces.

But he did not lose hardly any in the West . Oxcross was a overwhelming victory and Robb lost very few men and he seemingly took Ashemark and the Crag fairly easily . He had a pretty  easy time in the West and could stay there indefinitely as long as Tywin stayed at Harrenhall which he would have to do as long as Renly had his army in the South. Robb had zero time pressure compared to the other two. . 

 

3 hours ago, cgrav said:

Tywin succeeded in sowing discord among Robb's allies. The Riverfolk would want to go defend their homes, and of course they would soon come to resent the northern King waging his war in their land. 

That "Northern King" was also King of the Trident and he is the one who drove the Lannisters out of most of the Riverlands and helped the Riverlords take back their castles and dignity so the Riverfolk had nothing but respect for Robb and instead of sowing discord among Robb's allies all Tywin did was unite them . 

 

4 hours ago, Sullen said:

Renly fully intends to fight Tywin, but he prefers to wait until the odds are even more stacked in his favour, ie: after Robb and Tywin are done fighting each other, or until Robb bends the knee to him.

 Once Robb heads West Renly would have no choice but to go ahead with his attack on Kings Landing . Robb and Tywin were probably a thousand miles apart with Tywin in Harrenhall and Robb taking Ashemark and the Crag , neither Tywin or Robb were making any kind of move against each other so why would Renly think that he could sit back and let them weaken each other ? 

[Bironic]

12 minutes ago, Blackfish Tully said:

But he did not lose hardly any in the West . Oxcross was a overwhelming victory and Robb lost very few men and he seemingly took Ashemark and the Crag fairly easily . He had a pretty  easy time in the West and could stay there indefinitely as long as Tywin stayed at Harrenhall which he would have to do as long as Renly had his army in the South. Robb had zero time pressure compared to the other two. . 

 

That "Northern King" was also King of the Trident and he is the one who drove the Lannisters out of most of the Riverlands and helped the Riverlords take back their castles and dignity so the Riverfolk had nothing but respect for Robb and instead of sowing discord among Robb's allies all Tywin did was unite them . 

 

 Once Robb heads West Renly would have no choice but to go ahead with his attack on Kings Landing . Robb and Tywin were probably a thousand miles apart with Tywin in Harrenhall and Robb taking Ashemark and the Crag , neither Tywin or Robb were making any kind of move against each other so why would Renly think that he could sit back and let them weaken each other ? 

I agree that Robb lost hardly any men in the West.

Actually aside from the Tullys, they took their castles back by themselves. Of course after Robb defeated Jaimes army (with the help of some Rivermen such as the Freys, the Mallisters, the Blackfish and the Riverrun garrison) that was hindering them to do so.

No Tywin didn't unite them. His raiding of the riverlands caused the Riverlords to abandon Robb, when he needed them most. They asked to get the leave to defend their own castles which Robb foolishly agreed to. Thus he split his forces once again and diminished his strength, which was smaller than the Lannisters to begin with. While the Westermen remained with Tywin even when robb plundered their lands, and sacked their castles. Tywin would have never allowed Addam Marbrand or any other of his lords to break away from his main army to defend their own lands in the west. This would have depleted his forces the same way it depleted Robbs.

No Renly didn't have time pressure he could wait until either Tywin, Robb or the Rivermen have killed each other. He has more than enough men and more than enough food to support  them.

Sooner or later the Rivermen would have begged Robb to return east to defeat Tywin, who was still raiding them. Or Tywin would have turned west to attack Robb or the remaining Rivermen. Tywin had enough men to destroy the riverlander piece by piece. Robb lacked the strength to take Casterly Rock, Lannisport or the Golden tooth.

[Blackfish Tully]

1 minute ago, Bironic said:

Sooner or later the Rivermen would have begged Robb to return east to defeat Tywin, who was still raiding them. Or Tywin would have turned west to attack Robb or the remaining Rivermen. Tywin had enough men to destroy the riverlander piece by piece. Robb lacked the strength to take Casterly Rock, Lannisport or the Golden tooth.

Where do you get that Tywin was still raiding the Riverlands ? Tywin was hiding in Harrenhall and the Riverlords had driven the Lannisters out of their castles and off their lands. Edmure had control of the Riverlands and Tywin's plans to destroy or defeat them had completely failed because of Robb. How do you think the Riverlords were able to defeat Tywin at the Crossing ? Don't forget that Roose Bolton still had an army in the Riverlands so If Tywin moved against the Riverlands again he would have been making a huge mistake . He did not have the element of surprise and he had already lost one army in the Riverlands and one at Oxcross so he could not afford to lose any more men in a futile effort in the Riverlands  especially with the Northern armies helping the Riverlords. Tywin had no choice but to stay in Harrenhall and pray that he had enough men to defeat Renly , he was the one who was in desperate straights not Robb. His speech to Tyrion lays it out pretty well. 

 

Ser Kevan did as he was bid. Lord Tywin unrolled the leather, smoothing it flat. "Jaime has left us in a bad way. Roose Bolton and the remnants of his host are north of us. Our enemies hold the Twins and Moat Cailin. Robb Stark sits to the west, so we cannot retreat to Lannisport and the Rock unless we choose to give battle. Jaime is taken, and his army for all purposes has ceased to exist. Thoros of Myr and Beric Dondarrion continue to plague our foraging parties. To our east we have the Arryns, Stannis Baratheon sits on Dragonstone, and in the south Highgarden and Storm's End are calling their banners."

Tyrion smiled crookedly. "Take heart, Father. At least Rhaegar Targaryen is still dead."