Homelessness: Literal and Existential

[YOVMO]

So I have been pondering the spiritual versus literal homelessness theme that seems to run through this entire series. 

 

The most obvious case is probably Viscerys and Dany. I mean they are totally displaced from their homes and it has a profound effect on who they are as people. But we have other cases.

We have Robb who has lost his home...literally in the sense that his decision have lead to the loss of winterfell but also in that he has lost his way. As KITN he never steps foot in the North. He loses his childhood, his home etc.

Jon is another obvious case. Jon is homeless IN his home as Cat treats him with disdain while at the same time he exhibits a deep spiritual homelessness cf dreams of the cryps

Sansa loses her home both in winterfell and the snow castle she builds that sweet robin bashes

Bran...my favorite in this line of thinking, puts it so perfectly.....a boy who has been evicted from his own body very early on says "What was he now? Only Bran the broken boy, Brandon of House Stark, prince of a lost kingdom, lord of a burned castle, heir to ruins." Does this not scream homelessness in every way.

Catelyn is Homeless as a southerner in winterfell and then again as a Lady whose lord husband is dead.

And that is just the starks! 

Blackfish has a great homeless backstory. Lord Hoster is homeless in his own mind as he sinks into dementia. How long does Edmund spend as Lord before he is a prisoner while some annoying Frey is demanding that his "new home", Riverrun, not be destroyed.

Jamie is homeless in that joining the kings guard loses him CR and eventually his father while slaying Aerys displaces him from Honor.

Even the conqueror was homeless...yes he was on dragonstone but that was not his home. 

Theon is an amazing homeless character. Never at home with his blood family never at home with the family that raised him, Theon is permanently homeless and constantly looking for approval to his own sad end

Jorah Mormont...obviously

Shit, Quaith is always reminding Dany to remember where she comes from. Where is that? No where? Confession. 

What other homeless themes do people see here...either literal or emotional?

 

EDIT: Duh Homeless Harry 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

You forgot the really, really big one.
 

Quote

She yearned to see her mother again, and Robb and Bran and Rickon … but it was Jon Snow she thought of most. She wished somehow they could come to the Wall before Winterfell, so Jon might muss up her hair and call her “little sister.” She’d tell him, “I missed you,” and he’d say it too at the very same moment, the way they always used to say things together. She would have liked that. She would have liked that better than anything.

--

"No one," she would answer, she who had been Arya of House Stark, Arya Underfoot, Arya Horseface. She had been Arry and Weasel too, and Squab and Salty, Nan the cupbearer, a grey mouse, a sheep, the ghost of Harrenhal . . . but not for true, not in her heart of hearts. In there she was Arya of Winterfell, the daughter of Lord Eddard Stark and Lady Catelyn, who had once had brothers named Robb and Bran and Rickon, a sister named Sansa, a direwolf called Nymeria, a half brother named Jon Snow. In there she was someone . . . but that was not the answer that he wanted.

--

When you smell our candles burning, what does it make you think of, my child?"

Winterfell, she might have said. I smell snow and smoke and pine needles. I smell the stables. I smell Hodor laughing, and Jon and Robb battling in the yard, and Sansa singing about some stupid lady fair. I smell the crypts where the stone kings sit, I smell hot bread baking, I smell the godswood. I smell my wolf, I smell her fur, almost as if she were still beside me.

 

[YOVMO]

2 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

You forgot the really, really big one.
 

 

of course!

Sorry, I was getting as many of the obvious ones out there as quickly as possible because I wanted to see if anyone came up with obscure ones.

 

I was thinking about the dragons as being homeless...as well as the Direwolves.....about the undying after dany burns the temple....Euron who is exiled....bloodraven, Brienne, the wildlings one and all

[Philokles]

Tyrion is forced into exile as well, which completes the 'big-6' characters. Homelessness fits well with some of the other major themes, like identity and coming of age.

[YOVMO]

2 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

Tyrion is forced into exile as well, which completes the 'big-6' characters. Homelessness fits well with some of the other major themes, like identity and coming of age.

Tyrion...yes..

 

There really is an alienation from ones home / alienation from ones self theme happening. 

[Seams]

The Rhoynar.

The Free Folk (when they come south of the Wall under Jon's protection).

The Manderlys.

The Second Sons.

The exiled Prince Jalabhar Xho from the Summer Isles.

[YOVMO]

1 minute ago, Seams said:

The Rhoynar.

The Free Folk (when they come south of the Wall under Jon's protection).

The Manderlys.

The Second Sons.

The exiled Prince Jalabhar Xho from the Summer Isles.

How so the Manderly's (assuming you mean the whole family and not just the imprisoned ones)

 

What about the Weirwoods, the Children and the Kings of Winter (this is where I was going)

[Seams]

1 minute ago, YOVMO said:

How so the Manderly's (assuming you mean the whole family and not just the imprisoned ones)

 

What about the Weirwoods, the Children and the Kings of Winter (this is where I was going)

I was thinking that the Manderlys had to leave the Mander river and throw themselves on the mercy of the Starks, but maybe they are happy with their new home base. Still, they've kept the old name . . . 

You're saying the weirwoods are homeless? Aren't the Kings of Winter at home in the Winterfell crypt?

[YOVMO]

43 minutes ago, Seams said:

I was thinking that the Manderlys had to leave the Mander river and throw themselves on the mercy of the Starks, but maybe they are happy with their new home base. Still, they've kept the old name . . . 

You're saying the weirwoods are homeless? Aren't the Kings of Winter at home in the Winterfell crypt?

Good call on Manderly's!!!!! This is why I asked.

Yes the weirwoods are homeless in the sense that they live in a world that is openly hostile to the old gods (moreso if dany comes with dragons to fight the others)

 

And kings of winter at home in winterfell crypts? Didn't you, me and @Curled Finger just spend a long thread talking about how they were most certainly not?

 

 

[Hodor the Articulate]

It's interesting thinking about the Dothraki under this theme. They are literally homeless, but I don't think any of them would say they feel lost or that they don't belong. Then again, I suppose it could be argued that they do have homes, just not a permanent one. Or maybe the whole Dothraki Sea is home.

[Jon Fossoway]

good theme.

for me, the strongest and most visceral expression of homelessness in asoiaf is the broken men. Most of the examples you mention are looking for their homes or made a new one, but the broken men are lost in the void.

[Seams]

3 hours ago, YOVMO said:

And kings of winter at home in winterfell crypts? Didn't you, me and @Curled Finger just spend a long thread talking about how they were most certainly not?

Ah! Of course you are right.

[YOVMO]

11 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

for me, the strongest and most visceral expression of homelessness in asoiaf is the broken men

The broken men is a great and wonderful example. Moreover, the castle at Dary itself is, in a sense, deposed.

11 hours ago, Seams said:

Ah! Of course you are right.

Even a broken clock has to be right twice a day I guess. But if we are talking about alienation, the ultimate alienation is the one that the Kings of winter suffer if, in fact, they have been released from the crypts and are now the Others

[kimim]

I love this! It's really easy to limit themes to "revenge is bad," or "war as pissing contest is bad," but homelessness, physical and psychological, is possibly a more profound thing than either of those. This is why it annoys me when people start going on about the exact location of the house with the red door. That's less important than what it represents for Dany. If she's wrong about its location, it's even more distressing, as she can't locate the one place she considers home. It's sad that her goal, KL, is another place where she'll be an exile.

I think her story is the most tragic, in that Jon and the Stark kids all have a home; they're exiled from a specific place that they can win back. Same with Tyrion: His home is CR, and he has a distant hope of returning to it. Not so for Dany.

Other exiles:

• Sam, driven from his home. Same for many members of the NW.
• Brienne, whose appearance and choices make her an exile from Westerosi society.
• Jorah, exiled on Essos.
• Barristan, fired from his one "home," the kg.
• Theon, who has no home, and Asha, driven away by Euron.
• Cat, who never felt at home in the North.
• The wildlings, driven past the Wall by the Others.
• Stannis, exiled from the throne that is his by right.
• Jojen, who knows it's time for him to die, and just wants to go back home.
• The Greyjoys, exiled from their traditional way of life, forced to do what the Westerosi do, on barren rocks where agriculture is difficult.

                    

 

[Daendrew]

This is a brilliant thread.

Cheers Yovmo. Thanks for this.

Little things like this add up to make up the magical realism of his world.

For example Ned is a homeless lord in his own realm as he was raised in the Vale. He was culturally more Andal in many ways even though he held to the Old Ways of the Starks. His brother Brandon was more of a true willful Stark, meanwhile Brandon was burnt arguably without a trial that was due a lord of his stature. Brandon got the death of a homeless man.

[Blackfyre Bastard]

17 hours ago, YOVMO said:

Catelyn is Homeless as a southerner in winterfell and then again as a Lady whose lord husband is dead.

 

6 minutes ago, kimim said:

• Cat, who never felt at home in the North.

I would like to argue against this, as I think that Cat's home was Winterfell.

She goes through a period of adjustment, but eventually she feels at home

Quote

“There was a Tully of Riverrun who felt [that the North was no place for her] once,” she had answered gently, trying to console, “but in time she found much here she could love.”

ASoS Chapter 45 - Catelyn V. Catelyn tells Lynesse Mormont how she'll eventually feel at home in the North (as it happened to her).

Besides, Cat's the Lady of Winterfell, wife to the Lord. Winterfell is her place as much as Ned's. 

Is not until Bran "falls" that Cat begins to lose her marbles and then she wanders off from her home never to return again. That's when she becomes homeless not before.

[YOVMO]

On October 9, 2016 at 1:16 PM, kimim said:

 

I love this! It's really easy to limit themes to "revenge is bad," or "war as pissing contest is bad," but homelessness, physical and psychological, is possibly a more profound thing than either of those.

 

I am glad you love it. Still, I like geeking out about red doors too.

 

On October 9, 2016 at 1:35 PM, Daendrew said:

 

This is a brilliant thread.

Cheers Yovmo. Thanks for this.

 

High praise. Much appreciated. 

 

On October 9, 2016 at 1:35 PM, Daendrew said:

For example Ned is a homeless lord in his own realm as he was raised in the Vale. He was culturally more Andal in many ways even though he held to the Old Ways of the Starks.

Didn't even consider this one and it is very good especially seeing as how a Weirwood could not even take root which is quite a clear parallel to Ned being there.

 

On October 9, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Blackfyre Bastard said:

I would like to argue against this, as I think that Cat's home was Winterfell.

She goes through a period of adjustment, but eventually she feels at home

I thought about this before writing Cat. I decided against it because of the conversation she has with Ned in AGOT (I will reference later when I am at my computer and not on my phone) that she never felt at home in the godswood. The reasons you give are very good and the exact reasons that Ned tells her she is being ridiculous but I chose to mention it because she explicitly says it to Ned and he has to reassure her even after all her years as the Lady of Winterfell

[Philokles]

On 09/10/2016 at 6:16 PM, kimim said:

I love this! It's really easy to limit themes to "revenge is bad," or "war as pissing contest is bad," but homelessness, physical and psychological, is possibly a more profound thing than either of those. This is why it annoys me when people start going on about the exact location of the house with the red door. That's less important than what it represents for Dany. If she's wrong about its location, it's even more distressing, as she can't locate the one place she considers home. It's sad that her goal, KL, is another place where she'll be an exile.

I think her story is the most tragic, in that Jon and the Stark kids all have a home; they're exiled from a specific place that they can win back. Same with Tyrion: His home is CR, and he has a distant hope of returning to it. Not so for Dany.

I'd say the exact location is important for that very reason. Personally I think the house with the red door doesn't and never has existed, hence the discrepancies. Instead it is a representation of what she wanted as a child, that over time has transformed into a place where she genuinely believes she lived. Now, as you say, it symbolises her hopeless quest for a home, looking for a place that literally does not exist.

[kimim]

1 hour ago, Horse of Kent said:

I'd say the exact location is important for that very reason. Personally I think the house with the red door doesn't and never has existed, hence the discrepancies. Instead it is a representation of what she wanted as a child, that over time has transformed into a place where she genuinely believes she lived. Now, as you say, it symbolises her hopeless quest for a home, looking for a place that literally does not exist.

True

[YOVMO]

15 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

I'd say the exact location is important for that very reason. Personally I think the house with the red door doesn't and never has existed, hence the discrepancies. Instead it is a representation of what she wanted as a child, that over time has transformed into a place where she genuinely believes she lived. Now, as you say, it symbolises her hopeless quest for a home, looking for a place that literally does not exist.

So I agree with you almost 100%. I do think that the house existed and that it was not in Braavos. However, I think that the house not being where she thinks is was is important for every reason you point out that it matters....a symbol of a hopeless quest for home, etc. However, one thing I will mention is that I feel the house being somewhere other than she thinks it is adds to the significance of Quaith telling her to remember who she is.

She is basically trying to live out the dream Viscerys had. When she dreams it is of a house with a red door and a lemon tree not of the iron throne, not of power. In fact, her time in Meeren gave her a taste of what it is like to rule and she really didn't like it. Dany has never lusted for the 7K either. Viscerys had memories of his father giving him treats when he could name all the skulls of the dragons in the throne room. To him Kings Landing was a home that was taken. To her it is only something she has heard of. I always get the sense from Dany that she is trying to do something that she doesn't really want because she thinks she has to which is why she has been such a consistent and colossal failure and why she will, i believe, ultimately die a meaningless death. 

14 hours ago, kimim said:

True

Not sure if you are aware of Godwin's Law. Basically says that as an online discussion grows, with each passing comment and each user, the chances that someone compares someone or something to Hitler or Nazism increases until it is a certainty. So any online discussion about any topic will, at some point, turn into someone calling something Hitler. I believe there may be a house with red door version of this specific to this site  My suggestion is just to accept and enjoy it