What's the Series' Best Romantic Moment?

[Le Cygne]

For a simple moment, I liked when Sam said he would choose Gilly above everyone.

If I could take a wife, I would sooner have you than any princess or highborn maiden...

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

12 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I am Val's biggest hero... don't let @Darkstream fool you in to thinking he is I have written what ended up being tons about her. It went from a few coincidence descriptions to full blown holy shitness. I wrote about her a lot!

Jon and Dany have a slew of parallels (for obvious reasons), and I do think think that the similar choices that they are given at different times, and the distinct ways they chose differently, is what is shaping them for now and the near future.

For me, Ghost is to Jon as what Barristan is to Dany= a reminder and connection to what they are historically. Both are even called by their leader/master a "white and hairy" and their "white shadow". Dany is given her history orally by Barristan, while Jon recognizes his first bloodness through Ghost, who Jon says is "of the old gods". Barristan is even Dany's version of Mormont's raven when he is cloaking himself as Arstan Whitebeard when he gives his councel to Dany and constantly tap-tap-taps his cane (as Mormont's raven taps and squaks) when Dany is about to say something that could expose her as young and vulnerable. Ygritte was called by Jon his duty, just as Dany calls what Irri does for her just a duty. Both Dany and Jon have a "bear" as well  And so on...

So, there is the very real chance that Barristan could die in his duty to save his queen during the battle of Meereen, and Ghost could be sent to the rainbow bridge in attempt to save his king and/or later to try and revive him... but I don't think that will happen. Nope.

It just depends on how much and how far George is going to have Jon and Dany's arc mirror each other???

Now, the kicker is the inspiration for Val (in the link above) does also have a possible rainbow bridge situation

HOWEVER, I also very, very, very much agree that prophecy is NEVER literal, the sword tempering could be just sex, or the birth of a baby, etc, etc... Val is Jon's second moon, which cracks to birth the dragons. Some convincing posters believe this will mean the second moon dies... but again, cracking to birth a dragon could just be Jon's child being born??? Just a thought.

Now Jon and Val... this is seriously a hot relationship budding here. One of the reasons why is Jon respects Val, he knows her station within the wildlings, he doesn't jump to bed her even though he could (because he is such an oathbreaker ), and even when Jon and Val have that tiff over greyscale/Shireen, Jon watches Val stride away! There was no hate in that moment. Just a little pricklyness, but George has mentioned in interviews that both sides of a relationship should be shown for it to be real.

Thank you. I really enjoyed this and am very interested. I shall go read your stuff. Thanks for the link. 

[Yukle]

12 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

For a simple moment, I liked when Sam said he would choose Gilly above everyone.

If I could take a wife, I would sooner have you than any princess or highborn maiden...

I'm probably in the minority here, but while I definitely do like that line, overall I wish Sam and Gilly weren't romantically linked.

I think it shows better strength of character if Sam does the right thing simply because he thinks it's due, rather than due to infatuation. Men and women can be friends, so I'd love to have seen a platonic relationship between these two instead of a romantic one.

But that's still a nice line. Pity about their sex scene which was probably the worst in the series.

[Sydes Farquhar]

Hey. First time posting but I always thought that Gendrys line about Arya looking like a nice oak tree was sweet. In addition while potentially traumatic to Arya I recollect a scene in which Robert drunkenly mistakes her for lyanna and apologizes for all his sleeping around which I think is a testament for his feelings for her

[Yukle]

9 hours ago, Sydes Farquhar said:

Hey. First time posting but I always thought that Gendrys line about Arya looking like a nice oak tree was sweet.

They're cute, aren't they?

Also, welcome!

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

12 hours ago, Sydes Farquhar said:

Hey. First time posting but I always thought that Gendrys line about Arya looking like a nice oak tree was sweet. In addition while potentially traumatic to Arya I recollect a scene in which Robert drunkenly mistakes her for lyanna and apologizes for all his sleeping around which I think is a testament for his feelings for her

I have zero recollection of this? Do you have the quote? 

[Yukle]

33 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I have zero recollection of this? Do you have the quote? 

... True. I don't actually remember either of these moments either... ?

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

13 hours ago, Yukle said:

But that's still a nice line. Pity about their sex scene which was probably the worst in the series.

See, I love their sex scene. I know it is from Sam's POV. But if you read the scene and tryto get inside Gilly's head it's pretty special. Gilly has never so much as experienced a consensual kiss before. 

Quote

 

Sam found himself kissing her back. I said the words, he thought, but her hands were tugging at his blacks, pulling at the laces of his breeches. He broke off the kiss long enough to say, "We can't," but Gilly said, "We can," and covered his mouth with her own again. The Cinnamon Wind was spinning all around them and he could taste the rum on Gilly's tongue and the next thing her breasts were bare and he was touching them. I said the words, Sam thought again, but one of her nipples found its way between his lips. It was pink and hard and when he sucked on it her milk filled his mouth, mingling with the taste of rum, and he had never tasted anything so fine and sweet and good. If I do this I am no better than Dareon, Sam thought, but it felt too good to stop. And suddenly his cock was out, jutting upward from his breeches like a fat pink mast. It looked so silly standing there that he might have laughed, but Gilly pushed him back onto her pallet, hiked her skirts up around her thighs, and lowered herself onto him with a little whimpery sound. That was even better than her nipples. She's so wet, he thought, gasping. I never knew a woman could get so wet down there. "I am your wife now," she whispered, sliding up and down on him. And Sam groaned and thought, No, no, you can't be, I said the words, I said the words, but the only word he said was, "Yes."

Afterward she went to sleep with her arms around him and her face across his chest.

 

Now, Just cut out Sams self doubt and guilt. And focus on Gilly. She kisses him, And he kisses her back, she's never done this before, only ever known the kisses of her father, and never before taken her sexuality in her own hands and instigated an encounter with a man of her own choosing. And I think if we put Sam's thoughts aside for a moment we can hear her exaltation at this. She knows what she wants, and she's pro active in getting it. Sam is recounting the sensations as he experiences them, and we get a sense of fervour and desire from him, intermingled with his concern at breaking his vows.  the Rum, the Milk, his sense of surprise at his own erection. 

Then Gilly pushes him down onto the pallet, this is her taking control once again, and agian think back she's never been able to do this before, every encounter she has ever experienced has been rape. she has only ever been passive and abused. Now she makes a whimpery sound as she lowers herself onto him. That's a sound Sam describes as even better than her nipples, so I'm guessing it's a sound made from satisfaction not pain. She's expressing the triumpn of her moment here. And she crowns that triumph with the asertion that she is his wife now. I feel this is almost a cleansing experience for her. It's powerful and sexy and certainly romantic when you think about it from her point of view, rather than Sam's conflicted thoughts and bumbling virginity. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Just now, Yukle said:

... True. I don't actually remember either of these moments either... ?

No, I'm usually pretty good at this too, But nothing? My mind is drawing a blank. 

[Yukle]

1 minute ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

See, I love their sex scene. I know it is from Sam's POV. But if you read the scene and tryto get inside Gilly's head it's pretty special. Gilly has never so much as experienced a consensual kiss before. ...

Ew ew ew ew eeeeewwwwwwww...

I can't, I just can't! The milk thing, the fat pink mast... it's so bad, I really don't like that scene.

Each to their own, I suppose.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

4 minutes ago, Yukle said:

Ew ew ew ew eeeeewwwwwwww...

I can't, I just can't! The milk thing, the fat pink mast... it's so bad, I really don't like that scene.

Each to their own, I suppose.

Well given that I spent 5 years of my life lactating, I guess milk is just no biggy. You tend to get over it when every time you come your tits spurt milk 2 foot in the air. LOL. 

The fat pink mast is Sam's interpretation of his penis. He see's it as an almost alien thing, he's clearly not used to thinking about his dick as something other than where the wee comes out. He comes across as incredibly inexperienced in this scene. Which is good writing, cos he is. 

Had Sam sudenly turned into a confident, and experienced love maker for this scene I think we'd all be calling foul on George. He does a good job here of portraying both Sam's inexperience and conflict and Gilly's need to have control over her first consensual encounter. It's a triumph for her, and he's left reeling from the host of sensations. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Also think about the contrast between her actively undressing Sam, Initiating the kissing and mounting him, and teh final scene in your mind. Of him laying there, with her cradled in his arms, her arms around him also and her head upon his chest. 

It's a peaceful scene, she's exercised some demons this night. I think that is very romantic. And in the morning she totally respects his vows, and agrees it was a one off. Even though in the heat of it she declared herself His wife now. I think that was for her. You know, it was directly about wiping Craster out. 

[Yukle]

22 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Well given that I spent 5 years of my life lactating, I guess milk is just no biggy. You tend to get over it when every time you come your tits spurt milk 2 foot in the air. LOL.  

My issue there is not the lactating, it's the fact that it feels like a baby / mother fantasy. Just... not my thing. Particularly when you consider her background with Craster, which was incestuous, it just felt like that's how Craster would have treated her.

I also think it glosses over the trauma and psychological damage Gilly must have had surrounding her sexuality and security of person.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Hmm, I disagree. As I've said I think the scene is very much about Gilly overcoming the spectre of Craster. She's in charge here, she's initiating the sex, she's directing everything in this scene. 

It's very much about her and I don't see any incest fantasy at all. breasts and sex are a funny thing. On the one hand we all know breasts are primarily for the nurishment of our offspring, and we know that they make milk. We also know though that our culture (western) fetishises breasts to the point that for many they are about sex first and foremost and the fact they make milk and feed babies too; makes them very uncomfortable. 

Sam gets a gob full of milk when he goes to suck on Gilly's breasts, sucking on your lovers breasts is seen in our culture as a very normal sex act. Very few people stop to consider the oddity of it. Before you have a baby most women see their breasts as sexual, something that men find desirable and which they wish to touch, kiss, suck and fondle. Once a baby arives however, the re-catagorisation of them as food producing causes a huge conflict for some. Sam going in for the nipple isn't weird, not any weirder than any man doing so regardless of the womans lactation status. Certainly breast play isn't dirty or off limits or taboo once you have a baby. No more so than any other aspect of your sexuality would suddenly become so. Many couples continue to involve breast play in their lovemaking after a baby is born. Some men don't mind getting a mouth full of milk, others dislike it. And some women would rather you didn't whilst others couldn't give a shit.  Some couples can't cope with the idea of anything what so ever that is connected to their baby being in any way a part of sex, and either lactation is ceased due to this cog dis or sex is ceased whilst the mother is breastfeeding.  Some struggle to perform other sex acts after the birth o a child, due to feelings of impropriety. I've had mothers confess they simply can't enjoy sex at all anymore because they have stopped thinking of themselves as remotely sexual now that they are a mother. 

Our cultures Madonna/Whore complex is very strong, and I suspect the discomfort of Gilly's milk in this scene is due to that discomfort with motherhood and sexuality to a certain degree. 

If Sam enjoys ingesting Gilly's milk durin their sexual encounter, does that make him a weirdo?  in my experience no of course not, Gilly can't help the let down reflex any more than she could help concieving her fathers baby, it's just a bodily reflex. Sam isn't obliged to find hermilk gross or off putting, because their culture is not as subject to the same disconection between breasts and lactation as ours is. Or for that matter to the same disconect with bodily function full stop. To them two; it's just what boobies do. They make milk, they're fun to play with and can be incorporated as part of sex play if desired.  

Sam sucking her breast doesn'ttake away any of the imagary which tells us Gilly is taking her sexuality into her own hands and experiencing her first consensual intercourse. 

Should probably dislose I am a breastfeeding councilor And as such have had conversations surrounding sexuality and lactation and motherhood in general with hundreds of women and a fair few of their partners too. 

 

If you think that is how Craster would have treated her, just take a minute to read through the scene again. Do you Really think Gilly offered her mouth willingly for kisses, tore at his clothes to get to his cock? shoved him down and mounted him, declared herself his wife and rode him whilst whimpering? really? 

Sam doesn't treat Gilly anyway at all in this scene, he's very passive The sex is being done to him. He catches her braest in his mouth, or she maybe even shoves his head down onto it? we aren't actually told that, he seems to see the nipple before him all of a sudden, and he sucks it.  We then get the sensory decription of sweet milk and sweet rum, which is a powerfully comforting combination. Hot milk and Rum is given as a drink to comfort and ease after being out in the cold. The evocation here is security and warmth after hardship. Perfect for the theme of their love making. 

[Raisin' Bran]

6 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Hmm, I disagree. As I've said I think the scene is very much about Gilly overcoming the spectre of Craster. She's in charge here, she's initiating the sex, she's directing everything in this scene. 

It's very much about her and I don't see any incest fantasy at all. breasts and sex are a funny thing. On the one hand we all know breasts are primarily for the nurishment of our offspring, and we know that they make milk. We also know though that our culture (western) fetishises breasts to the point that for many they are about sex first and foremost and the fact they make milk and feed babies too; makes them very uncomfortable. 

[...]

Sam doesn't treat Gilly anyway at all in this scene, he's very passive The sex is being done to him. He catches her braest in his mouth, or she maybe even shoves his head down onto it? we aren't actually told that, he seems to see the nipple before him all of a sudden, and he sucks it.  We then get the sensory decription of sweet milk and sweet rum, which is a powerfully comforting combination. Hot milk and Rum is given as a drink to comfort and ease after being out in the cold. The evocation here is security and warmth after hardship. Perfect for the theme of their love making. 

Thank you very much for that analysis.  I am glad you are here to put into words what others would struggle to describe as completely normal.

Personally, I felt that that scene was much more comical rather than gross, but completely believable.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

11 hours ago, Raisin(g) Bran 2 Greenseer said:

Thank you very much for that analysis.  I am glad you are here to put into words what others would struggle to describe as completely normal.

Personally, I felt that that scene was much more comical rather than gross, but completely believable.

Thank you. 

 

Yes there are definitly comical moments. George brings comedy into the story in some good ways. I find sams' utter surprise at the sight of his own cock very amusing.  It's like OMG where did that come from. Jesus it's all big, what happened. lol. 

[Yukle]

@The Weirwoods Eyes I did enjoy reading though that. I don't agree but I really do appreciate and enjoy your opinion. In fact, I enjoyed reading it more than I do most opinions that I do agree with. It's quite thoughtful analysis.

It possibly also reveals a bit about my own life, eh?  

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Well I am glad you enjoyed it. 

 

[SeanF]

22 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Hmm, I disagree. As I've said I think the scene is very much about Gilly overcoming the spectre of Craster. She's in charge here, she's initiating the sex, she's directing everything in this scene. 

It's very much about her and I don't see any incest fantasy at all. breasts and sex are a funny thing. On the one hand we all know breasts are primarily for the nurishment of our offspring, and we know that they make milk. We also know though that our culture (western) fetishises breasts to the point that for many they are about sex first and foremost and the fact they make milk and feed babies too; makes them very uncomfortable. 

Sam gets a gob full of milk when he goes to suck on Gilly's breasts, sucking on your lovers breasts is seen in our culture as a very normal sex act. Very few people stop to consider the oddity of it. Before you have a baby most women see their breasts as sexual, something that men find desirable and which they wish to touch, kiss, suck and fondle. Once a baby arives however, the re-catagorisation of them as food producing causes a huge conflict for some. Sam going in for the nipple isn't weird, not any weirder than any man doing so regardless of the womans lactation status. Certainly breast play isn't dirty or off limits or taboo once you have a baby. No more so than any other aspect of your sexuality would suddenly become so. Many couples continue to involve breast play in their lovemaking after a baby is born. Some men don't mind getting a mouth full of milk, others dislike it. And some women would rather you didn't whilst others couldn't give a shit.  Some couples can't cope with the idea of anything what so ever that is connected to their baby being in any way a part of sex, and either lactation is ceased due to this cog dis or sex is ceased whilst the mother is breastfeeding.  Some struggle to perform other sex acts after the birth o a child, due to feelings of impropriety. I've had mothers confess they simply can't enjoy sex at all anymore because they have stopped thinking of themselves as remotely sexual now that they are a mother. 

Our cultures Madonna/Whore complex is very strong, and I suspect the discomfort of Gilly's milk in this scene is due to that discomfort with motherhood and sexuality to a certain degree. 

If Sam enjoys ingesting Gilly's milk durin their sexual encounter, does that make him a weirdo?  in my experience no of course not, Gilly can't help the let down reflex any more than she could help concieving her fathers baby, it's just a bodily reflex. Sam isn't obliged to find hermilk gross or off putting, because their culture is not as subject to the same disconection between breasts and lactation as ours is. Or for that matter to the same disconect with bodily function full stop. To them two; it's just what boobies do. They make milk, they're fun to play with and can be incorporated as part of sex play if desired.  

Sam sucking her breast doesn'ttake away any of the imagary which tells us Gilly is taking her sexuality into her own hands and experiencing her first consensual intercourse. 

Should probably dislose I am a breastfeeding councilor And as such have had conversations surrounding sexuality and lactation and motherhood in general with hundreds of women and a fair few of their partners too. 

 

If you think that is how Craster would have treated her, just take a minute to read through the scene again. Do you Really think Gilly offered her mouth willingly for kisses, tore at his clothes to get to his cock? shoved him down and mounted him, declared herself his wife and rode him whilst whimpering? really? 

Sam doesn't treat Gilly anyway at all in this scene, he's very passive The sex is being done to him. He catches her braest in his mouth, or she maybe even shoves his head down onto it? we aren't actually told that, he seems to see the nipple before him all of a sudden, and he sucks it.  We then get the sensory decription of sweet milk and sweet rum, which is a powerfully comforting combination. Hot milk and Rum is given as a drink to comfort and ease after being out in the cold. The evocation here is security and warmth after hardship. Perfect for the theme of their love making. 

That's an excellent post.  I've read lots of people just going "Eugh!!" at the Fat Pink Mast scene, but it really is very well written, and Sam reacts just as you'd expect a shy virgin to react.  I was Sam (or for that matter Quentyn Martell) at the age of 18.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Thank you. @SeanF  I really do think it is a lovely scene. Sam's all fingers and thumbs and delight and aprahension. And that is SO believable. And Gilly is All Feisty and determined to get her man And that is SO important for her character, to erase Craster. It comes at a really good Transistional point in both their stories too. On the homeward stretch of their journey to Westeros. She is re entering the country having processed her abuse and the greif of leaving her own son behind. And Sam is re entering the country as a man he has stood up to his fears, he's cared for Gilly, Mance's son, Aemon, has proven his capability in getting them to Westeros after Daeron abandons them, he's pulled his nuts out working their passage on the Cinamon Wind and he's coped with Aemons deteriation and death. All the while keeping Gilly safe and fed. In their society he has proven he is every bit the man his father told him hecan't be and now he's off to prove his vallue at the Citadel.  Them making love at this point suits both their characters journeys well.  It's the right time for them both, and it's full of warmth, fun, passion and joy.  

And one fat pink mast.