Savannah Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: Why would they find a 'house dad' attractive. Nobody goes on a date with a guy, finds out he's earning minimum wage or is unemployed and thinks 'phwoar, he'd make an excellent house husband'. I'm not quite sure what you are referring to about Rotherham? That's not how relationships work obviously. Men don't do that either. This is the reference:" Widespread organised child sexual abuse took place in Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England, between 1997 and 2013. Local investigations into the abuse began in 1999, although some reports were never finalised or made public by the authorities.[1] In 2010, five British-Pakistani men were found guilty of a series of sexual offences against girls as young as twelve.[2] A subsequent investigation by The Times reported that the child sex exploitation was much more widespread, and the Home Affairs Select Committee criticised the South Yorkshire Police force and Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Councilfor their handling and covering up of the abuse. An independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in the town, led by Professor Alexis Jay, was established in 2013 for Rotherham Council.[3] The inquiry's initial report, published on 26 August 2014, condemned the failure of the authorities in Rotherham to act effectively against the abuse or even, in some cases, to acknowledge that it was taking place.[4][5][6] The report estimated that 1,400 children had been sexually abused in the town between 1997 and 2013, predominantly by gangs of British-Pakistani men.[7] Abuses described included abduction, rape, torture and sex trafficking of children.[6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 What I'm saying is that women still find men who have money and status attractive, over low paid, low status men. They are choosing those men. Why this is, who knows, could be cultural or it could be hard wired, but thats where we are at the moment. So the bar is set far higher for men, and their ability to meet those criteria is getting worse. So they are giving up. Men will choose a low paid woman purely based on her looks and personality, her job is not a major issue in most cases. Im not quite sure why you are bringing up the rape cases in Rotherham, thats not really part of the discussion and you are talking about isolated cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Quote I had friends who were... more successful with women than I was and who I considered less considerate. As such the "asshole" hypothesis presented itself to me. Had I reconsidered and recognized that this was their call and I had no vote, I'd have been happier. This. And hard as it may be to believe, if a single woman doesn't like you, you won't in fact die or die alone. Another thing that hasn't been up the whole male anxiety about the changing workforce I think may be very geography specific. I live in an urbanized coastal area (Seattle area) and while I've never been to or worked in the Midwest, I suspect the job ranges are vastly different. I'm not even really talking paycheck totals. There's just an enormous range of job choices here. I'm sure some get stuck in awful jobs, but it's far less common here. And if you really were having a masculine crisis over your job, there's tons of warehouse work here. Amazon is literally mailing out job offers. Also, from what I've seen, no one really is stuck with a class tattoo at birth here. While sure those with comp sci degrees and careers will consistently have a lot of money, lots of people go back and forth between the middle and working classes here. There's also a ton of jobs that aren't gender specific at all. Unless you're so macho that you think tech customer service jobs are too feminine. Oh, also we don't enjoy enslaving our working class workers here like some states do. We just raised the minimum wage to 11 and hour and rising. But yeah someone in a rural area may be faced with a choice like Walmart worker, fast food, home health worker, janitor, and trucker. I'm just speculating here as I don't have experience with those areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 MS, Yup. Further, looking back, what I wanted was not what was being offered to my "successful" friends. I'm a romantic always have been. I didn't like casual sexual relationships. Thus, what I offered was not what they were looking for. And I, to my embarrassment, saw that as a character flaw. I was the asshole, not my friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Fury Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 No point in this discussion anymore without peterbound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savannah Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 On 1/7/2017 at 1:48 PM, Channel4s-JonSnow said: Im not quite sure why you are bringing up the rape cases in Rotherham, thats not really part of the discussion and you are talking about isolated cases. You have the opinion that the daughters will be fine, previously on this thread. I disagree. Don't start a conversation if you don't want to have one. Rotherham is just one example of such isolated incidents. In Sweden girls wore wristbands (handed by the police) written "don't grope" on them. Do you think they work? That's... toxic policing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 49 minutes ago, Savannah said: You have the opinion that the daughters will be fine, previously on this thread. I disagree. Don't start a conversation if you don't want to have one. Rotherham is just one example of such isolated incidents. In Sweden girls wore wristbands (handed by the police) written "don't grope" on them. Do you think they work? That's... toxic policing. Yes I think that in general in terms of education and society, women will actually be totally fine, thinks are looking pretty good for them. I would say that outside of maybe some cultural backwaters, I don't believe in the view that we are living in the midst of some rape epidemic. The events of Rotherham were appalling, and should rightfully disgust everyone, but I don't believe they are very representative. I think actually there is a useful discussion to be had as to the problems that men are having in terms of their sexuality. There is a huge disconnect between men's desires, mainly to procreate with a lot of very attractive women (and also not very attractive women), and the realities of life. Men are as mentioned earlier, expected to be very proactive in approaching women and making the first move. Men are aware that women expect them to act manly and take a relatively dominant position in the mating game, to be passionate and to be made full of desire by a woman. At the same time we are told to be extremely careful, don't approach women, don't make the first move, don't let your urges control you. Its a difficult position. Its very conflicting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 [mod] To everyone: If you cannot have a nuanced and sensitive discussion about rape, your posts will be deleted and you will have your posting privileges suspended. This is the only warning I will give before nuking people from orbit on this topic. [/mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savannah Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 On 1/9/2017 at 11:44 AM, Channel4s-JonSnow said: Yes I think that in general in terms of education and society, women will actually be totally fine, thinks are looking pretty good for them. I would say that outside of maybe some cultural backwaters, I don't believe in the view that we are living in the midst of some rape epidemic. The events of Rotherham were appalling, and should rightfully disgust everyone, but I don't believe they are very representative. I think actually there is a useful discussion to be had as to the problems that men are having in terms of their sexuality. There is a huge disconnect between men's desires, mainly to procreate with a lot of very attractive women (and also not very attractive women), and the realities of life. Men are as mentioned earlier, expected to be very proactive in approaching women and making the first move. Men are aware that women expect them to act manly and take a relatively dominant position in the mating game, to be passionate and to be made full of desire by a woman. At the same time we are told to be extremely careful, don't approach women, don't make the first move, don't let your urges control you. Its a difficult position. Its very conflicting. My subjective and limited experience of men doesn't support the notion that they are horny beasts constantly about to stick their dicks into just about anything. If they are like that, then I would applaud their restraint. The other issue. There's definitely no 'rape epidemic' in Europe. "epidemic ɛpɪˈdɛmɪk/ noun 1. 1. a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease in a community at a particular time. " There's no rape flu or a rape virus, or go grope bacteria. Do you really think that the police were handing out the 'don't grope' wristbands just for the heck of it, or might it indicate not merely a problem, but a problem handled very poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Channel, Y ou may say 'boo hoo' but I think that underestimates the unhappiness men feel and why they often cheat, and are treated like dogs for doing it. Are you saying that men who voluntarily enter into relationships where fidelity to one person is a clear expectation that when they violate that expectation the man who violated the expectation shouldn't expect serious anger and potentially an end to that relationship? When you violate your given word you are being an asshole. Don't be surprised that you are called out for being what you are. If a man will be desperately unhappy if he is limited to one sexual partner... don't promise to be with only one sexual partner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 26 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: . If a man will be desperately unhappy if he is limited to one sexual partner... don't promise to be with only one sexual partner. I don't think many men are really aware of how difficult it will be when they make that promise. Everything in society is promising them that marriage is what people do and that its what will make you and your partner happy, so you should do it. There is no warning on the label saying 'your urges to bang every hot girl that walks past aren't going to just go away you know'. I'm not saying we should suddenly allow cheating (even if some societies are quietly accepting of the concepts of mistresses + prostitution has been a sexual outlet for many men for as long as time), but that the way we demonise men for not falling into a set of rules that wholly don't suit them is probably unfair. The ideal would be that men wouldn't go into marriages because outside of having kids there is very little in it for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 30 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: I don't think many men are really aware of how difficult it will be when they make that promise. Everything in society is promising them that marriage is what people do and that its what will make you and your partner happy, so you should do it. There is no warning on the label saying 'your urges to bang every hot girl that walks past aren't going to just go away you know'. I'm not saying we should suddenly allow cheating (even if some societies are quietly accepting of the concepts of mistresses + prostitution has been a sexual outlet for many men for as long as time), but that the way we demonise men for not falling into a set of rules that wholly don't suit them is probably unfair. The ideal would be that men wouldn't go into marriages because outside of having kids there is very little in it for them. I'm sorry I have little or no sympathy for people who break their given word and break fidelity with the person they profess to love. I love my wife dearly and we are approaching our 15th Anniversary. We've had ups and downs like any couple but I wouldn't change it for the world. So claiming "the only thing men get out of marriage is Kids" is a giant steaming pile of horse shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I'm happy for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: I'm happy for you. I'm glad to hear it. Claiming men get nothing from marriage but kids remains a giant steaming pile of horse shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I'm glad to hear it. Claiming men get nothing from marriage but kids remains a giant steaming pile of horse shit. Glad your happy in your marriage. You remain an exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: Glad your happy in your marriage. You remain an exception. Your claim is completely unsupported. Care to attempt to prove that most men get nothing from Marriage but kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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