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Daenerys Targaryen's slave

The Grand Maester Conspiracy

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I mean, we're in a world where maps just kind of end and even known continents aren't fully explored. If there's magic left in the world but it isn't affecting Westeros/Essos, what do the Maesters care? We're only dealing with about a quarter of their globe anyways. They can't stop what they don't know about. 

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36 minutes ago, Lord Vance II said:

I mean, we're in a world where maps just kind of end and even known continents aren't fully explored. If there's magic left in the world but it isn't affecting Westeros/Essos, what do the Maesters care? We're only dealing with about a quarter of their globe anyways. They can't stop what they don't know about. 

I agree with this (and pretty much usually feel that westeros and to a lesser extent the free cities is what the Maesters mean when they say "the world") however, it could be possible that magic has a single source globally so ending magic in Westeros at its source would also cut off magic in Qohor, Yi Ti, all over Nothoros and anywhere else even if the Maesters don't care / don't know about those areas.

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23 hours ago, Daenerys Targaryen's slave said:

How exactly do they plan on getting rid of Magic when their base of operations is set on only one continent in the world?

They have glass candles that supposedly allow them to communicate across great distances. Ironically, those candles seem to be reactivated with the birth of the dragons, which the maesters loath. I suspect that while the "real" world is busy playing the game of thrones, age-old institutions like the maesters, the faceless men, the warlocks, shadowbinders and the children are playing their own games.

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The maesters "killing" magic is more profound that its geographical location. It is what actually happened in our World, when Marwyn says "The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons" is the same as Zarathustra saying "Could it be possible! This old saint has not heard in his forest that God is dead!".

Our World has no place for magic or for any god, plainly here the maesters have won. Our World denies any other form of knowledge that doesn't come through reason or science. As in the maesters case this may probe fatal. 

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playing devil's advocate here, mostly, but why do people jump on the maesters and this "conspiracy" based off of ONE QUOTE by someone who is not liked by literally every single other archmaester?

how much power do you think Marwyn yields in that governing circle of archmaesters when they (Perstan, Armen) disrespect him and his theories every chance they get (the one example with Leo Tyrell we have)?

it seems as tho a lot of people have run with this quote and grouped Marwyn with the Maesters when he is further on the outskirts than anyone else.

if there is a "maester conspiracy", who would be his support when the archmaesters are so obviously against Marwyn?

did i miss something?

or do you think once the presence of dragons is KNOWN, the other archmaesters will fall in line with Marwyn? guess that is logical.

or is Marwyn part of an extremist sect of maesters that are "hidden in plain site" type of deal? 

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2 minutes ago, DigUpHerBones said:

playing devil's advocate here, mostly, but why do people jump on the maesters and this "conspiracy" based off of ONE QUOTE by someone who is not liked by literally every single other archmaester?

how much power do you think Marwyn yields in that governing circle of archmaesters when they (Perstan, Armen) disrespect him and his theories every chance they get (the one example with Leo Tyrell we have)?

it seems as tho a lot of people have run with this quote and grouped Marwyn with the Maesters when he is further on the outskirts than anyone else.

if there is a "maester conspiracy", who would be his support when the archmaesters are so obviously against Marwyn?

did i miss something?

or do you think once the presence of dragons is KNOWN, the other archmaesters will fall in line with Marwyn? guess that is logical.

or is Marwyn part of an extremist sect of maesters that are "hidden in plain site" type of deal? 

I'm all for Devil's Advocate.

I will skip the first point, solely because it's - as you've said - a conspiracy. That said, Marwyn has proven, through the acts of others as well as himself, that magic is a very real thing, and that it has no place in the current ranks of the Maesters. His point of view, whether we like it or not, tends to be like Septon Barth's: People can disagree with it, they can burn his books, they can lambast him, and judge him, but in the end, the old codger's on to something.

Which is why he carries the status he does, despite the enmity of his peers.

As to how much power he has: Little, at best. However, in the face of all the things he claims as reality, the Maesters can little close their eyes and plug their ears, while staying silent. They will respond. They have to. Reality will be the thing, the ally, the force that backs Marwyn, when the time comes. What's ironic is that, he won't be around to see this happen, having left Oldtown; everyone will come to see how right he was about so much, in his absence. And just when his expertise, his knowledge, everything, is needed, he'll be across the sea or dead.

As for a Maester conspiracy, I'm not quite sure I see it as such. It seems to be no more than the mood of the "scientific community." An analogy would be the way that the scientific community swapped its' opinion of the wave-particle nature for light, swapping every few generations between one nature and the other. They haven't stumbled across the double-slit experiment yet, currently claiming that "Light's a particle, and you're a joke for thinking it's a wave." Many can't reconcile the old magics, so they're outwardly against them. This clearly couldn't always have been the case, given the presence of dragons in Westeros. As to the depths of the idea that the maesters worked to bring about their end, I've always been ambivalent; my ambivalence can't deny the structure of maester influence in noble education, but people do tend to believe what they see or experience, even if it goes against teachings. I'm less sure it's a continent-wide conspiracy to have brought it all down, but who knows.

As to when dragons are known once more, see above. It's hard to deny that which is in front of you. What could they do in such a situation?

I think Marwyn's alone, but I'm not sure how much that will actually matter when the time comes. Mayhaps Sam is being set up to champion his side.

 

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