The Long Night's Watch - the Undead Companions of the Last Hero

[ravenous reader]

19 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

LML names all his series as 'Weirwood/Bloodstone/Something Compendium' so I wanted name of our thread to reference it, as Mythical Astronomy inspired me to research all that Norse myth stuff in the first place.

Amber Compendium, a good name indeed.

Amber is 'bursztyn' - it comes from Middle Low German 'Bernstein', (from brennen = to burn) which itself comes from Old Norse brennistein (related to brimstone.

There's also second name, but it's rarely used - jantar.

I like 'Amber Compendium'!  Yeah, the connection to burning and the sun is good too.

20 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

Oh Amber/electrum!

"I've never had a crown on my head or sat my arse on a bloody throne, if that's what you're asking," Mance replied. "My birth is as low as a man's can get, no septon's ever smeared my head with oils, I don't own any castles, and my queen wears furs and amber, not silk and sapphires. I am my own champion, my own fool, and my own harpist. You don't become King-beyond-the-Wall because your father was. The free folk won't follow a name, and they don't care which brother was born first. They follow fighters. When I left the Shadow Tower there were five men making noises about how they might be the stuff of kings. Tormund was one, the Magnar another. The other three I slew, when they made it plain they'd sooner fight than follow."

- Jon X, aSoS

Nice.  I wonder if Dalla's amber necklace relates her to Freyja with her Brisingamen necklace?  The necklace represents heaven's bounty; when Freyja wears it searching for her lost husband, her tears falling on the ground become gold, and when they hit the water they become amber.  Amber in other words is a moon meteor (or 'sea dragon') of sorts!

[Bluetiger]

9 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

I like 'Amber Compendium'!  Yeah, the connection to burning and the sun is good too.

Nice.  I wonder if Dalla's amber necklace relates her to Freyja with her Brisingamen necklace?  The necklace represents heaven's bounty; when Freyja wears it searching for her lost husband, her tears falling on the ground become gold, and when they hit the water they become amber.  Amber in other words is a moon meteor (or 'sea dragon') of sorts!

Ok. Let's stop hijacking this thread.

Before I start 'Amber Compendium' thread, I want to ask: Which of these options is the best one for that thread:

1. Thread similar to discussion on 2 last pages here - just discussion on various, but related topic.

2. Poster .... (me, Ravenous, Jane, somebody else) wrties essay about some topic (Sif's hair for example), than we discuss it.

3. OP gives topic, than we discuss it for some time, when we feel all has been said, someone takes best ideas and writes essay which becomes part of the Compendium and we put it somewhere else, so it's easy to find it later.

[Pain killer Jane]

15 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Saltpeter is potassium nitrate (potash).  I'm not sure how 'sweet petyr' relates to amber?

Like you said saltpeter is potash but something else that can be used for fire is peat which comes from decayed peat moss (I am sure this is why the crannogmen are named Bog Devils. Devils should conjure up fiery demons and pitchforks and bogs are formed from the decayed peat moss and we know that moss is there because the coloring of the Green Fork is leeched from the moss. And peat moss can be set on fire and will smolder for years. So it is a source for fuel. And since we are on a thread about green men burning it seems rather obvious)

Now sweet petyr's relation to amber isn't readily seen. Amber in the series is either the precious stone or wine such as the Sweet Amber from the Summer Isles. Arbor Gold is the name of the sweet wine from the Arbor ruled over by House Redwyne (total reference to red wine transformed to be the blood of Christ and since House Redwyne is descended from Gilbert of the Vines, son of Garth then this can't be a coincidence). Arbor is obvious as it is just the word arboreal, so trees. The gold part is in reference to amber's status as a precious gem. But the Arbor gold is also reference to the other name of Amber, electrum which is an alloy of silver and gold and has the nickname green gold. 

So since we have greenseers being set on fire becoming lighting lords, storm lords and thus becoming immortal, I tend to think the amber is also a reference to this. There are some holes to this so it is incomplete. 

A couple of things too, House Redwyne is known for their naval fleet and thus you can equate them with the Ironborn and the Greyjoys because while Redwyne is pronounced red wine, the spelling looks like it should be redwin i.e. Serwyn of the mirror shield, and Wyn is an middle or old English word meaning Joy. And there is an amber that is grey and called Ambergris  or grey amber that comes from whales and is the base for perfume. 

[ravenous reader]

19 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

Ok. Let's stop hijacking this thread.

Ha ha ha.  Lucifer is suddenly conspicuous by his absence; and I can almost hear him sulking about our insolence somewhere!  (that's why I included the connection of amber to sea dragons, hoping to mollify him...)  

Quote

Before I start 'Amber Compendium' thread, I want to ask: Which of these options is the best one for that thread:

1. Thread similar to discussion on 2 last pages here - just discussion on various, but related topic.

2. Poster .... (me, Ravenous, Jane, somebody else) wrties essay about some topic (Sif's hair for example), than we discuss it.

3. OP gives topic, than we discuss it for some time, when we feel all has been said, someone takes best ideas and writes essay which becomes part of the Compendium and we put it somewhere else, so it's easy to find it later.

I don't know -- it's your thread.  How do you prefer to present the material?  

[Bluetiger]

5 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Ha ha ha.  Lucifer is suddenly conspicuous by his absence; and I can almost hear him sulking about our insolence somewhere!  (that's why I included the connection of amber to sea dragons, hoping to mollify him...)  

I don't know -- it's your thread.  How do you prefer to present the material?  

Option 3 could be very productive, and would give all of us a chance of contributing.

[Pain killer Jane]

41 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Nice.  I wonder if Dalla's amber necklace relates her to Freyja with her Brisingamen necklace?  The necklace represents heaven's bounty; when Freyja wears it searching for her lost husband, her tears falling on the ground become gold, and when they hit the water they become amber.  Amber in other words is a moon meteor (or 'sea dragon') of sorts!

Could be. And you are right about the sea dragon which LmL explained was a leviathan often thought of as whale and Ambergris is grey amber that comes from whales. 

[LmL]

19 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Ha ha ha.  Lucifer is suddenly conspicuous by his absence; and I can almost hear him sulking about our insolence somewhere!  (that's why I included the connection of amber to sea dragons, hoping to mollify him...)  

I don't know -- it's your thread.  How do you prefer to present the material?  

Haha no I was just at work. I'm happy that my thread was like an egg which cracked from the sweetsunray's heat and gave birth to a thousand thousand ravenous blue tigers. I'm happy to play midwife, although I also welcome all the Norse myth of my thread, I'm always happy to have more Norse myth. A lot of the ideas covered in the green Zombie series seem to be touching on various ideas from Norse myth, as we have seen from this thread. 

Mostly I'm like "Hey everybody please don't go!"

[Pain killer Jane]

16 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

Option 3 could be very productive, and would give all of us a chance of contributing.

Option 3 seems viable especially if we want to stress the multilayered allusions to the myths. Because some posters might be more familiar with certain myths than even the OP.

[LmL]

So, a couple things. One has everybody read http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com ? Someone did a ton of work relating Norse mythology to A Song of Ice and Fire several years ago, but it's sort of fell out of favor ( and even earned a bad reputation) because the author took the conclusions too far and decided that the Norse myth correlations dictate that Tommen is the prince that was promised, which obviously makes no sense. However many of the character parallels he uncovered seem to be right on the money, and I imagine he's got some that we will have missed here. So everyone should go take a look at that.

Second thing, if it's going to be an open project kind of thread, a Gathering Place for Norse myth correlations, you should give it a title which is self-explanatory so when people see it, they know what to expect. Amber compendium is cute, but it's really more of an open project than a written essay.

 

ETA: okay I see the idea about doing exploration threads, then writing essays to go and a compendium. That makes a lot of sense actually, and would probably be a good way to about it.

[Bluetiger]

21 minutes ago, LmL said:

So, a couple things. One has everybody read http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com ? Someone did a ton of work relating Norse mythology to A Song of Ice and Fire several years ago, but it's sort of fell out of favor ( and even earned a bad reputation) because the author took the conclusions too far and decided that the Norse myth correlations dictate that Tommen is the prince that was promised, which obviously makes no sense. However many of the character parallels he uncovered seem to be right on the money, and I imagine he's got some that we will have missed here. So everyone should go take a look at that.

Second thing, if it's going to be an open project kind of thread, a Gathering Place for Norse myth correlations, you should give it a title which is self-explanatory so when people see it, they know what to expect. Amber compendium is cute, but it's really more of an open project than a written essay.

 

ETA: okay I see the idea about doing exploration threads, then writing essays to go and a compendium. That makes a lot of sense actually, and would probably be a good way to about it.

I remember you've showed me this blog nearly year ago:

Quote

LML: Who is playing the role of Freyr to be killed by the magic fire sword, do you think? 

Me: At first I thought that it's Stannis or Jon wielding Lightbringer killing Ser Hosteen Frey or Lord Walder. Bit this seems to be too simple. Probably it's some other sacrifice.

I haven't read 'Norse mythology and ASOIAF', to be honest I've never heard about it. I'm not often on the forum recently, so is it some new thread or podcast? Could you share link to it?

LML: Here you go, don't get lost...

http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com

I don't remeber much now, so probably re-read is coming.

Btw, I was looking at my old posts - and well.... They were kind of stupid.

But as always, I was trying to make tigers important to the myths and plot of Ice and Fire, and this task shall continue!

Quote

(Feb, 24th 2016) In ancient chineese astronomy tigers symbolise West while dragons are symbol of East. In folk lore and legends tigers are biggest enemy of dragons...

Maybe taking tiger-woman as wife means that Bloodstone Emperor left GEoTD and went to the WESTeros?

[ravenous reader]

48 minutes ago, LmL said:

I'm happy that my thread was like an egg which cracked from the sweetsunray's heat and gave birth to a thousand thousand ravenous blue tigers.

1 hour ago, Pain killer Jane said:

Like you said saltpeter is potash but something else that can be used for fire is peat which comes from decayed peat moss (I am sure this is why the crannogmen are named Bog Devils. Devils should conjure up fiery demons and pitchforks and bogs are formed from the decayed peat moss and we know that moss is there because the coloring of the Green Fork is leeched from the moss. And peat moss can be set on fire and will smolder for years. So it is a source for fuel. And since we are on a thread about green men burning it seems rather obvious)

Now sweet petyr's relation to amber isn't readily seen. Amber in the series is either the precious stone or wine such as the Sweet Amber from the Summer Isles. Arbor Gold is the name of the sweet wine from the Arbor ruled over by House Redwyne (total reference to red wine transformed to be the blood of Christ and since House Redwyne is descended from Gilbert of the Vines, son of Garth then this can't be a coincidence). Arbor is obvious as it is just the word arboreal, so trees. The gold part is in reference to amber's status as a precious gem. But the Arbor gold is also reference to the other name of Amber, electrum which is an alloy of silver and gold and has the nickname green gold. 

So since we have greenseers being set on fire becoming lighting lords, storm lords and thus becoming immortal, I tend to think the amber is also a reference to this. There are some holes to this so it is incomplete. 

A couple of things too, House Redwyne is known for their naval fleet and thus you can equate them with the Ironborn and the Greyjoys because while Redwyne is pronounced red wine, the spelling looks like it should be redwin i.e. Serwyn of the mirror shield, and Wyn is an middle or old English word meaning Joy. And there is an amber that is grey and called Ambergris  or grey amber that comes from whales and is the base for perfume. 

There are a lot of intriguing amber references, if one does a search.  For one, amber is bound to be magically significant at least symbolically if not actually, in that it comes from Asshai and is mentioned in the same breath as dragonglass:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys III

She would have been lost without Xaro. The gold that she had squandered to open the doors of the Hall of a Thousand Thrones was largely a product of the merchant's generosity and quick wits. As the rumor of living dragons had spread through the east, ever more seekers had come to learn if the tale was true—and Xaro Xhoan Daxos saw to it that the great and the humble alike offered some token to the Mother of Dragons.

The trickle he started soon swelled to a flood. Trader captains brought lace from Myr, chests of saffron from Yi Ti, amber and dragonglass out of Asshai. 

This one is interesting, in that the Night's Watchmen are compared to flies becoming embalmed in amber, which is what I was hinting at in the reference to amber's preservative aspect (the flies fossilized for eternity in amber are 'undead' in a sense, like the Night's Watchmen we've speculated having been transformed into cold and/or fire wights):

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Samwell III

Sam hit him.

He did not think about it. His hand came up, curled into a fist, and crashed into the singer's mouth. Dareon cursed and his naked wife gave a shriek and Sam threw himself onto the singer and knocked him backwards over a low table. They were almost of a height, but Sam weighed twice as much, and for once he was too angry to be afraid. He punched the singer in the face and in the belly, then began to pummel him about the shoulders with both hands. When Dareon grabbed his wrists, Sam butted him with his head and broke his lip. The singer let go and he smashed him in the nose. Somewhere a man was laughing, a woman cursing. The fight seemed to slow, as if they were two black flies struggling in amber. Then someone dragged Sam off the singer's chest. He hit that person too, and something hard crashed into his head.

There's also a House Amber, which was extinguished in the wars surrounding Starks vs. Warg King:

Quote

The World of Ice and Fire - The North: The Kings of Winter

Chronicles found in the archives of the Night's Watch at the Nightfort (before it was abandoned) speak of the war for Sea Dragon Point, wherein the Starks brought down the Warg King and his inhuman allies, the children of the forest. When the Warg King's last redoubt fell, his sons were put to the sword, along with his beasts and greenseers, whilst his daughters were taken as prizes by their conquerors.

House Greenwood, House Towers, House Amber, and House Frost met similar ends, together with a score of lesser houses and petty kings whose very names are lost to history. Yet the bitterest foes of Winterfell were undoubtedly the Red Kings of the Dreadfort, those grim lords of House Bolton whose domains of old stretched from the Last River to the White Knife, and as far south as the Sheepshead Hills.

Were the 'Ambers' also wargs?

ETA: @Pain killer Jane I still don't understand the connection between 'peat' and 'amber'?  Are you also alluding to the ability of the bog to preserve bodies the way the resin does?

[Bluetiger]

36 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

There are a lot of intriguing amber references, if one does a search.  For one, amber is bound to be magically significant at least symbolically if not actually, in that it comes from Asshai and is mentioned in the same breath as dragonglass:

This one is interesting, in that the Night's Watchmen are compared to flies becoming embalmed in amber, which is what I was hinting at in the reference to amber's preservative aspect (the flies fossilized for eternity in amber are 'undead' in a sense, like the Night's Watchmen we've speculated having been transformed into cold and/or fire wights):

There's also a House Amber, which was extinguished in the wars surrounding Starks vs. Warg King:

Were the 'Ambers' also wargs?

Actually... I've read that chapter from TWOIAF this morning - I was interested whether Blackwoods being exiled from Wolfswood at going to the Riverlands might have some interesting hidden meaning.

I wouldn't say 'wargs' - but probably skinchangers, connected to the sea or lakes - or the trees (via amber).

Pain Killer Jane asked me about that legend of lithuanian goddess Jurata/Jurate (Elenei-like figure, jurate means mermaid in Lithuanian), and amber is really important there. There are many versions of this legend/myth, both in Poland and Lithuania - in Poland there's small seaside village called Jurata, I was there once few years ago.

Each region has different version, so I'll probably say few words abouth each, and if I can find, show the original one.

Baltic sea coast has many legends that follow the 'mortal man/woman falls in love with mermaid/sea goddess/god, their father/mother gets angry and sends waves to reclaim her/him' plot. 

Sea waves used to be (and sometimes still are) very destructive at Baltic Sea coast, so it's not surprising people used myths to explain that - for example at town called Trzęsacz (I was there as well) since XV century sea claimed over 2 kilometers of land, and only one wall remains of medieval church that was built 2 km from the shore. Obviously, the town has a legend that mermaid was found wounded on the shore and buried in said church, so her father keeps sending waves to get her back.

Amber often appears on the sandy and stony beaches after storms, especially in late autumn and winter, so it's featured in nearly all legends - as tears of gods or remains of destroyed underwater palaces, castles, cities etc.

I wonder if this myth might reveal something interesting to us: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglė_the_Queen_of_Serpents?wprov=sfla1

Lithuanian mythology & other Baltic mythologies seem to be very interesting - and I know nearly nothing about them. 

This is unacceptable - so I'll read about it as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_mythology?wprov=sfla1

It seems that we know more about this mythology than about mythologies of Slavic tribes that were Christianised and became Poland, as this religion/mythology was practicised until 15th century, when the Grand Duchy was baptised as part of the deal with Lithuanian Grand Duke Jogaila who married King of Poland, Lady Jadwiga - also called Hedwig (when woman ruled the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland she was called 'King', never 'Queen'). Jogaila became Władysław II Jagiełło, and later became King of Poland himself. In 1410 he lead campaign against the Teutonic Order, winnning the Battle of Grunwald (Tannenberg) - one of the largest battles is middle ages, where their Grand Master Ulrich von Jungingen died.

 

 

[ravenous reader]

39 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

Actually... I've read that chapter from TWOIAF this morning - I was interested whether Blackwoods being exiled from Wolfswood at going to the Riverlands might have some interesting hidden meaning.

I wouldn't say 'wargs' - but probably skinchangers, connected to the sea or lakes - or the trees (via amber).

Pain Killer Jane asked me about that legend of lithuanian goddess Jurata/Jurate (Elenei-like figure, jurate means mermaid in Lithuanian), and amber is really important there. There are many versions of this legend/myth, both in Poland and Lithuania - in Poland there's small seaside village called Jurata, I was there once few years ago.

Each region has different version, so I'll probably say few words abouth each, and if I can find, show the original one.

Baltic sea coast has many legends that follow the 'mortal man/woman falls in love with mermaid/sea goddess/god, their father/mother gets angry and sends waves to reclaim her/him' plot. 

Sea waves used to be (and sometimes still are) very destructive at Baltic Sea coast, so it's not surprising people used myths to explain that - for example at town called Trzęsacz (I was there as well) since XV century sea claimed over 2 kilometers of land, and only one wall remains of medieval church that was built 2 km from the shore. Obviously, the town has a legend that mermaid was found wounded on the shore and buried in said church, so her father keeps sending waves to get her back.

Amber often appears on the sandy and stony beaches after storms, especially in late autumn and winter, so it's featured in nearly all legends - as tears of gods or remains of destroyed underwater palaces, castles, cities etc.

I wonder if this myth might reveal something interesting to us: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglė_the_Queen_of_Serpents?wprov=sfla1

Lithuanian mythology & other Baltic mythologies seem to be very interesting - and I know nearly nothing about them. 

This is unacceptable - so I'll read about it as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_mythology?wprov=sfla1

It seems that we know more about this mythology than about mythologies of Slavic tribes that were Christianised and became Poland, as this religion/mythology was practicised until 15th century, when the Grand Duchy was baptised as part of the deal with Lithuanian Grand Duke Jogaila who married King of Poland, Lady Jadwiga - also called Hedwig (when woman ruled the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland she was called 'King', never 'Queen'). Jogaila became Władysław II Jagiełło, and later became King of Poland himself. In 1410 he lead campaign against the Teutonic Order, winnning the Battle of Grunwald (Tannenberg) - one of the largest battles is middle ages, where their Grand Master Ulrich von Jungingen died.

 

That's very interesting.  I like that amber is a 'sea-resin'...which leads me to speculate whether it's a 'see-resin' too -- as in greenseeing..!

Quote

From Wikipedia:

Pliny says that the German name of amber was glæsum, "for which reason the Romans, when Germanicus Cæsar commanded the fleet in those parts, gave to one of these islands the name of Glæsaria, which by the barbarians was known as Austeravia". This is confirmed by the recorded Old High German glas and Old English glær for "amber" (c.f. glass). In Middle Low German, amber was known as berne-, barn-, börnstēn. The Low German term became dominant also in High German by the 18th century, thus modern German Bernstein besides Dutch Dutch barnsteen.

The Baltic Lithuanian term for amber is gintaras and Latvian dzintars. They, and the Slavic jantar or Hungarian gyanta ('resin'), are thought to originate from Phoenician jainitar ("sea-resin")

A few characters have 'amber' eyes-- a literal manifestation of a see-resin! -- which reminds me of the golden eyes of the Children of the Forest and those on the Island of Naath:

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The World of Ice and Fire - Beyond the Free Cities: Naath

Northwest of Sothoryos, in the Summer Sea, lies the mysterious island of Naath, known to the ancients as the Isle of Butterflies. The people native to the island are a beautiful and gentle race, with round flat faces, dusky skin, and large, soft amber eyes, oft flecked with gold. The Peaceful People, the Naathi are called by seafarers, for they will not fight even in defense of their homes and persons. The Naathi do not kill, not even beasts of the field and wood; they eat fruit, not flesh, and make music, not war.

The god of Naath is called the Lord of Harmony, oft shown as a laughing giant, bearded and naked, always attended by swarms of slender maidens with butterfly wings. A hundred varieties of butterflies flitter about the island; the Naathi revere them as messengers of the Lord, charged with the protection of his people. Mayhaps there is some truth to these legends, for whilst the docile nature of the Naathi seem to make their island ripe for conquest, strangers from beyond the sea do not live long upon the Isle of Butterflies.

 The Naathi have many similarities with the Children of the Forest, including this suggestion of sorcery -- how else is it that the strangers from beyond the sea seeking to conquer Naath 'do not live long' and soon succumb on the 'peaceful' Isle of Butterflies, given that the Naathi 'do not kill' and 'make music, not war'? (the latter sounds like the Children of the Forest and their innocuous-sounding yet potent sorcery euphemistically entitled the Song of the Earth)

[Pain killer Jane]

6 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Were the 'Ambers' also wargs?

Perhaps. Since in that quote Mance says his queen wears furs and amber not silk and sapphires and we know that sapphires is at least related to magic, in particular ice magic, if we can relate Brandon Ice Eyes to Symeon Star-eyes and Aemon One-eye with his sapphire eye.  

50 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

here are a lot of intriguing amber references, if one does a search.  For one, amber is bound to be magically significant at least symbolically if not actually, in that it comes from Asshai and is mentioned in the same breath as dragonglass:

It also comes from the Forests of Qohor; another place steeped in magic, death, sacrifice and dragonsteel.

Quote

The Forest of Qohor also yields up furs and pelts of all kinds, many rare and fine and highly prized, as well as silver, tin, and amber. 

-tWoIaF

 

40 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

This is unacceptable - so I'll read about it as well.

Uh oh did I just send you down one of my rabbit holes? 

[Bluetiger]

2 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

Perhaps. Since in that quote Mance says his queen wears furs and amber not silk and sapphires and we know that sapphires is at least related to magic, in particular ice magic, if we can relate Brandon Ice Eyes to Symeon Star-eyes and Aemon One-eye with his sapphire eye.  

It also comes from the Forests of Qohor; another place steeped in magic, death, sacrifice and dragonsteel.

 

Uh oh did I just send you down one of my rabbit holes? 

It seems you did

But as I'm trying to create my own symbolism (for my short stories and planned novels), I should take inspiration from many mythologies - not just Norse or Greek or Chinese - let's not make it easy for people like us who (hopefully) will read it one day.

[Pain killer Jane]

2 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

It seems you did

But as I'm trying to create my own symbolism (for my short stories and planned novels), I should take inspiration from many mythologies - not just Norse or Greek or Chinese - let's not make it easy for people like us who (hopefully) will read it one day.

Glad to help. You should totally do Mesoamerican. I usually don't see a lot of that because of the sacrifice and bloodiness. I keep telling LmL that the one arm-ness of warriors (in the series) could be a reference to Mexica/Aztec warriors being granted the arms of sacrificed warriors they captured in battle and then cannibalizing them. The Yoruba religion is pretty neat as well as it gave birth to Voodoo, Hoodoo and Santeria.

And here is a question isn't the Little Mermaid also a version of the Baltic myths as well? 

[ravenous reader]

1 hour ago, Blue Tiger said:

I wonder if this myth might reveal something interesting to us: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglė_the_Queen_of_Serpents?wprov=sfla1

At the end, Egle and her children are turned into trees as punishment for their betrayal of the snake prince.  Do you think analogously the greenseers, particularly the Stark greenseers, are being punished for something?  @Black Crow made the interesting suggestion that Winterfell is a giant prison in which someone or something is condemned to serve out a prison sentence of indeterminate length and reason.  Since we've been told that Winterfell is a giant tree, centred around its heart, the heart tree, this is equivalent to being imprisoned in a tree -- and a metaphor for greenseeing.  In the manner of being bound and pinioned and riddled through by the 'grave worms' and 'milk snakes' of the weirwood, the greenseers do seem rather like prisoners!  I've always maintained, since my nennymoan days, that the 'marriage' between man and tree is a tad 'unhealthy', to say the least!

[Bluetiger]

6 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

And here is a question isn't the Little Mermaid also a version of the Baltic myths as well? 

It sems that Andersen mixed many inspirations - Greek myths, mermaids, oceanids etc. - so it's very likely that Baltic myth is there as well.

[Pain killer Jane]

32 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

That's very interesting.  I like that amber is a 'sea-resin'...which leads me to speculate whether it's a 'see-resin' too -- as in greenseeing..!

now that is a good way to see it. 

 

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

: @Pain killer Jane I still don't understand the connection between 'peat' and 'amber'?  Are you also alluding to the ability of the bog to preserve bodies the way the resin does?

I guess I am. I was thinking the saltpeter's connection to explosives and thus loosely fire and peat's ability to be on fire.. But hmm...that seems like a better connection. 

ETA: aren't the bodies found in peat bogs sacrifices? 

[LmL]

@nitrogensoda looks like your account is active! Welcome to the forums