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Prince_Snow

Arya vs Sansa what are your thoughts?

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4 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

If you've watched the entire series, assuming every word spoken is getting back to LF is a wise thing for Sansa to do for certain.

Right in Kings Landing he had a vast network of informants and underground allies. I can't imagine his network is anywhere near strong enough in Winterfell to assume the Stark girls words are getting back to him. Arya witnessed him paying off that random girl and he could conceivably have some Vale informants but I don't see how well placed they could be. Not with Royce right there  

They can pull it off because it's just a show and I get that but it feels super contrived in my opinion. 

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7 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

Sansa would have been too naive to realize she was putting Robb in danger.  She thought she was saving her father's life with that letter.  She was a child who got played by Cersei and Littlefinger.

And they were also dangling the Queen's Crown in front of her too. That was also and probably the bigger motive until they actually killed her father and then she no longer wanted to be Joff's Queen.

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1 minute ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

And they were also dangling the Queen's Crown in front of her too. That was also and probably the bigger motive until they actually killed her father and then she no longer wanted to be Joff's Queen.

Yup.  Sansa is selfish. 

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1 minute ago, The Special Pug of Belfast said:

Right in Kings Landing he had a vast network of informants and underground allies. I can't imagine his network is anywhere near strong enough in Winterfell to assume the Stark girls words are getting back to him. Arya witnessed him paying off that random girl and he could conceivably have some Vale informants but I don't see how well placed they could be. Not with Royce right there  

They can pull it off because it's just a show and I get that but it feels super contrived in my opinion. 

So you didn't see him paying off the chambermaid?

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7 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

And they were also dangling the Queen's Crown in front of her too. That was also and probably the bigger motive until they actually killed her father and then she no longer wanted to be Joff's Queen.

Yeah, let's not rewrite history here.  Yes, she wanted to save her father.  Absolutely.  Yes, she was naive and still trusted Cersei.

But, she also, at that time, and right up until her father's death still wanted to marry Joff and loved him.  And of course her book self, though not her show self, tells the queen and small council that Arya is the traitor not she.

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I can't really tell what Sansa is playing at.  I don't think they are plotting together at all.  But the scene where Arya appears to be threatening Sansa read to me as Arya trying to convey a warning about LF (because Arya doesn't fully know their history).  She mentions that the game's point is for the questioner to catch the answerer in a lie.  I can't remember the exact quote but she implies that the answerer needs to make things as plausible as possible.  Again, I don't have direct quotes but I seem to remember that as the game progressed during her training, the point of it was for Arya to make up lies and make them sound like truth.  I am probably giving the writers too much credit, but it read to me like Arya was showing Sansa that she can convincingly portray being murderously angry with Sansa (when in fact she is not, since she gave the knife to Sansa and practically skipped away with her back to her armed "enemy").  It plays on a couple of levels.  Arya warning her not to let people (LF) manipulate her.  Arya showing Sansa she's not the least bit afraid of her.  Arya telling her that she's playing a long game and is aware that LF is up to no good.  Arya warning Sansa that she thinks they are being outmanuvered and they ought to bury the hatchet and work together against that.

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5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Yeah, let's not rewrite history here.  Yes, she wanted to save her father.  Absolutely.  Yes, she was naive and still trusted Cersei.

But, she also, at that time, and right up until her father's death still wanted to marry Joff and loved him.  And of course her book self, though not her show self, tells the queen and small council that Arya is the traitor not she.

Sure but she at this point was believing that her father had committed treason somehow, either Stannis or someone had tricked him or something. She was lapping up the lies she was being told.

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10 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Sure but she at this point was believing that her father had committed treason somehow, either Stannis or someone had tricked him or something. She was lapping up the lies she was being told.

Her houses men had been slaughtered, she was doing something mentally not sure if lapping up the lies is it.

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9 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

I still think Sansa is in the dark, and Arya is using her to draw Littlefinger out.  

I think Arya is forcing Sansa's hand, drawing a line in the sand, regarding Littlefinger. Arya has made it clear she does not want LF there and that she thinks Sansa has/is doing questionable things, so trust is an issue. Sansa has to make a choice, take an action.

It's what the game of faces scene was all about. That people can say what ever they want but it's their actions that matter - words are wind. Arya was saying I can kill you, take your face and become you but her action was handing Sansa the dagger and turning her back on her. 

Sansa may have wanted LF around longer to keep options open but she she knows Arya won't stay out of it. Sansa won't risk Arya for that especially when she just got her family back. Sansa will take out LF and the sisters will reconcile.

The writing with the sisters may have been heavy-handed but it's still simplistic. With the exception of the game of faces scene which implies quite a bit. I will credit that, while it's still unnecessarily heavy-handed, it is not simplistic.

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54 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Yup.  Sansa is selfish. 

Sansa was selfish.

Now she is busy keeping her brother's army together, preparing Winterfell for the war and building up grain stores in case the northerners flee to Winterfell.

12 minutes ago, Elaena Targaryen said:

Arya has made it clear she does not want LF there and that she thinks Sansa has/is doing questionable things, so trust is an issue.

Has she? they have not talked about LF at all.

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1 minute ago, winter daughter said:

Sansa was selfish.

Now she is busy keeping her brother's army together, preparing Winterfell for the war and building up grain stores in case the northerners flee to Winterfell.

Has she? they have not talked about LF at all.

Did you miss her visual reaction when she found out LF is there?  Sansa didn't, because she quickly and defensively said he had declared for Stark.  It's pretty clear Arya doesn't want LF around.

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2 minutes ago, winter daughter said:

Has she? they have not talked about LF at all.

Yea sorry I added the LF bit in later but I didn't mean to add it in that spot. Your right they haven't really discussed him and it's not been made clear. LF was brought up in the godswood scene and Sansa knows Arya is not happy he is there but that was it.

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24 minutes ago, Elaena Targaryen said:

I think Arya is forcing Sansa's hand, drawing a line in the sand, regarding Littlefinger. Arya has made it clear she does not want LF there and that she thinks Sansa has/is doing questionable things, so trust is an issue. Sansa has to make a choice, take an action.

It's what the game of faces scene was all about. That people can say what ever they want but it's their actions that matter - words are wind. Arya was saying I can kill you, take your face and become you but her action was handing Sansa the dagger and turning her back on her. 

Sansa may have wanted LF around longer to keep options open but she she knows Arya won't stay out of it. Sansa won't risk Arya for that especially when she just got her family back. Sansa will take out LF and the sisters will reconcile.

The writing with the sisters may have been heavy-handed but it's still simplistic. With the exception of the game of faces scene which implies quite a bit. I will credit that, while it's still unnecessarily heavy-handed, it is not simplistic.

This is the best case scenario for what the show has done and how it could be reasonably interpreted.

But, did they remind the audience of how the lying game works?  I don't think most people got that Arya was testing Sansa to see if she was telling the truth, maybe they did, but the reactions didn't seem so, most just went 'Arya has gone psycho'.....

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6 minutes ago, winter daughter said:

Sansa was selfish.

Now she is busy keeping her brother's army together, preparing Winterfell for the war and building up grain stores in case the northerners flee to Winterfell.

Has she? they have not talked about LF at all.

You have to understand that most of this stuff people are referring to didn't happen at all in the show or they basically ignore what actually did happen in the show.

Sansa was being threatened when she wrote the letter.  They even show it in the previously on GoT scenes so that the viewer is reminded (people on this forum don't need to be reminded so they can keep up the false narratives).  LF and Cersie are sitting there threatening her and threatening her father....

LF says....."give her one more chance"

Cersie....."Send a letter, we'll tell you what to write."

She sends a letter under the threat of death in an attempt to save her father.  Arya did absolutely nothing to save her father....nothing.  Literally....nothing.  Sansa sent the letter (under the threat of being killed)....it is in the show.

She also went before Joffrey on hands and knees to beg for her father's life.

Where was Arya?

Oh, she was hiding in an alley.

When Robb and Cat read the letter were they mad at Sansa?  Nope.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

This is the best case scenario for what the show has done and how it could be reasonably interpreted.

But, did they remind the audience of how the lying game works?  I don't think most people got that Arya was testing Sansa to see if she was telling the truth, maybe they did, but the reactions didn't seem so, most just went 'Arya has gone psycho'.....

They never play the lying game.

Arya wants Sansa to play the lying game but Sansa doesn't play it so.....they never play the game of faces.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

You have to understand that most of this stuff people are referring to didn't happen at all in the show or they basically ignore what actually did happen in the show.

Sansa was being threatened when she wrote the letter.  They even show it in the previously on GoT scenes so that the viewer is reminded (people on this forum don't need to be reminded so they can keep up the false narratives).  LF and Cersie are sitting there threatening her and threatening her father....

LF says....."give her one more chance"

Cersie....."Send a letter, we'll tell you what to write."

She sends a letter under the threat of death in an attempt to save her father.  Arya did absolutely nothing to save her father....nothing.  Literally....nothing.  Sansa sent the letter (under the threat of being killed)....it is in the show.

She also went before Joffrey on hands and knees to beg for her father's life.

Where was Arya?

Oh, she was hiding in an alley.

When Robb and Cat read the letter were they mad at Sansa?  Nope.

 

 

Sansa was never under threat of death to write the letters. LMAO.  Cersei even tells her they're removing Jeyne because she's causing Sansa stress.  

You might want to rewatch the episode where Ned is beheaded, Arya is trying to get to the Sept to save her father when Yoren grabs her.

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2 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

They never play the lying game.

Arya wants Sansa to play the lying game but Sansa doesn't play it so.....they never play the game of faces.

I think with the lying game thing she was reminding Sansa that no matte how vicious Arya is getting, it's part of the game against LF, a lie to entrap him.  And then the face thing is an Easter Egg dropped for LF's consumption. And then the dagger is a further olive branch saying, "despite the intensity of the conversation that just happened, I'm no threat to you."

I read it this way because of my interpretation of events as Arya + Sansa vs. Littlefinger.  It may be that Arya is pulling Sansa into the game with this scene, but then it doesn't make sense that Sansa sent Brienne away before that, not after.

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7 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

This is the best case scenario for what the show has done and how it could be reasonably interpreted.

But, did they remind the audience of how the lying game works?  I don't think most people got that Arya was testing Sansa to see if she was telling the truth, maybe they did, but the reactions didn't seem so, most just went 'Arya has gone psycho'.....

Oh I agree and it's from all the prior scenes being overly dramatic. This is what happens when the writers think they are being clever. The whole of Winterfell this season boils down to "words are wind" and that shows the difference between the books and the show - three words to explain a point to how many cringe-worthy ambiguous scenes? 

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6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Sansa was never under threat of death to write the letters. LMAO.  Cersei even tells her they're removing Jeyne because she's causing Sansa stress.  

You might want to rewatch the episode where Ned is beheaded, Arya is trying to get to the Sept to save her father when Yoren grabs her.

Who is Jeyne?  Is that something from the books again?

You have to stick with what was in the show.  In the show, she was being threatened as a traitor.....the punishment is death.

And in the scene when Ned is beheaded.....Sansa is being held back as she screams, "Stop"

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1 hour ago, Darksnider05 said:

Her houses men had been slaughtered, she was doing something mentally not sure if lapping up the lies is it.

she believed that her father had still commited treason and she still wanted to be Queen. 

 

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