Arya vs Sansa what are your thoughts?

[A Ghost of Someone]

41 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

You don't think that Joffrey would have killed Ned even if Ned had not made the false confession, after Ned tried to overthrow Joffrey's kingship?  Ned forfeited his honor to save Sansa; because he would not have named himself a traitor if Sansa hadn't been threatened; but Ned did not die for her safety.  And I'm not sure why Sansa would automatically realize that Ned lied at the Sept to save her; she doesn't know what his reasons were; though she should be able to make a good guess.

What blew me away in the books was that joff was only 12 years old and nobody stopped Ned's execution . Cersei barely did anything  and varys did little more.  They were listening to s 12 year old kid. Sir jznos an illyn Payne. 

[Ashes Of Westeros]

1 hour ago, Tagganaro said:

Yeah, I think they're setting up Sansa and Arya coming together and killing LF, either in the finale or next season.  I feel like the finale probably needs at least one big death and LF is the most likely candidate IMO.  

I see it coming too. My problem with LF's death in this finale is that he wouldn't be exposed as he should be. If Bran tells Sansa and Arya everything off-screen I would be very disappointed.

[Gaz0680]

2 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

Yeah, I think they're setting up Sansa and Arya coming together and killing LF, either in the finale or next season.  I feel like the finale probably needs at least one big death and LF is the most likely candidate IMO.  

My best read on this is that either Arya is playing LF (I think this is unlikely but find it the best outcome) or that Arya is slowly learning to trust Sansa and will come around in the finale.  It's clear that Sansa at least held her own in the faces game to end last week- otherwise Arya wasn't just giving her the dagger.

Sansa didn't hold her own at all in the Game of Faces. She didn't want to play and she was terrified. Arya was never making a real threat to her and was always giving Sansa the dagger (hilt first), regardless of Sansa's responses in the game. 

[Verily]

When Arya trails LF in episode 5 she sees him talking with lords Royce and Glover, maybe assuming that he is plotting an overthrow of Jon given the unrest and questioning they had earlier with Sansa. Then Arya falls into his trap and discovers the letter. 

Then in this episode we see Arya confront Sansa about the letter and why she wrote it. Arya believes Sansa and ends the conversation saying she acts out of anger while alluding that Sansa acts out of fear. Arya's FM training allows her to tell when ppl lie or tell the truth, with maybe the exception of master deceivers, which Sansa is not. 

Arya uses that fear to set up Sansa discovering and learning about what she has gone through. Arya is too clever to leave the faces in such an easy to find location. I think she does it because trying to explain about the faces would come off crazy, but finding them allows for an easier conversation about it. 

They then proceed to play the game of faces with Sansa asking the questions. So Arya goes on about taking Sansas face, which is a lie that sounds true. Handing over the dagger confirms that Arya intends no harm to Sansa. How much of this Sansa understands still remains to be seen.

I think next episode all of LFs scheming comes to an end with his death at the hand of Sansa. My guess is that it comes out LF betrayed Ned, which led to his imprisonment and death. Sansa comes clean about her lies at the inquiry of her aunts death, leading to the Vale turning on LF. Sansa will order his death and do the deed herself with the dagger Arya gave her. 

I just hope Arya doesn't die before she and Jon can have their heartfelt reunion, along with her and Gendry reuniting. 

 

[RareObserver]

The sisterly strife between Arya and Sansa is plausible. The two have always kept a distance and while they have matured and acquired an impressive set of skills, they are not perfect and have become even more estranged. Sansa is loyal to John only with some reservation, as deep in her heart she is pondering whether she would be the better ruler. She thinks Ned and Rob were not smart enough to prevail, and she is (rightly) concerned about the same thing with John. She thinks she would be better in outsmarting their enemies, and while she may be right on this, she is discounting the fact that this is not the only quality in a ruler. Littlefinger senses an opening here although he knows full well that Sansa does not trust him (maybe he gave Sansa the sensible advice of asking Brienne for help for the only reason that he expected Sansa to do the opposite). Arya senses the potential threat for John’s authority and the unity of House Stark. But her perceptions are not flawless, she can be fooled. Arya has not become noone. She has acquired the skills of a faceless man, but kept her personality with all the anger, particularly when it comes to her family. So Littlefinger might have found her weak spot, even though she does not trust him either.

This is GoT where those characters we have become attached to are not left happy for long. Next to killing John or Dany, which at this point  is unlikely to happen given their key role for the story of ice and fire, it would be one of the Stark sisters killing the other that would give us the biggest shock moment.  So I am not betting against this for the season finale. Three scenarios might unfold: the sisters finally come together with Sansa fully getting behind John, and both fend of LF's scheming (leading to his demise?); Sansa openly splits with John after getting Arya killed: of Arya kills Sansa and leaves Winterfell in chaos. The second scenario is unlikely given Sansa’s words in the trailer that the „pack (of wolves) survives while the lone wolf dies“.  The other two could be compatible with these words likely directed at Arya.[\spoiler]

[WeaselPie]

8 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Littlefinger is actually just snitching on the sisters.  Sansa and Arya are not good people.  Sansa is very selfish and very self-serving.  That letter actually proved she was willing to put Robb in danger to save herself.  That's not the type of person you want ruling over Winterfell.  I can almost guarantee you that Sansa will not be ruling anything or anybody in the books.  George is hyper logical and the text has so far made clear that Sansa is a very selfish person.  Arya, well the girl collects trophies just like deranged serial killers do.  A nut house is the best place for her.  The show can decide to throw out continuity and make her the "most moral person in the universe" in episode 7 and really tank the story.  They could do it just for fan service.  The writing is just that bad now.  

Slow clap.

Liking a character or rooting for a character is all well and good, but we can't forget who they are in the end.  By design, these girls are damaged and imperfect.

[Pandean]

As a plot? It's incredibly infuriating and stupid, provokes arguments and debates that were settled a long time ago, and fans the flames of the wonder Arya vs. Sansa war that seems to have been a thing since forever. It feels as if I'm watching Season 1 again but the entirety of Season 1 is just Sansa and Arya squabbles. I think it's a waste for both of their wonderful characters.

 

In context of the showverse itself? I do feel like Arya is being unreasonable in how she is acting toward her sister. There are about a million other ways for this to be handled and she's going for the most extreme and probably most unhelpful direction. I can understand where she's coming from, but I do believe Arya is biased against Sansa due to her opinion of her sister still being the same since the first season despite the fact that she's obviously grown up. On Sansa's part, I'm not entirely sure what else she could be doing to fix things since it doesn't seem like Arya is in a 'sit and talk' mindset. I do think she could be a little more vocal about exactly what she's been through, her mindset about Jon, LF, and the North, etc. instead of being more silent, stony, and deflective.

 

In the words of Catelyn:

 

"Listen to yourselves. If you were sons of mine, I would knock your heads together and lock you in a bedchamber until you remembered that you were brothers. "

 

 

[Raksha 2014]

3 hours ago, Gaz0680 said:

Sansa didn't hold her own at all in the Game of Faces. She didn't want to play and she was terrified. Arya was never making a real threat to her and was always giving Sansa the dagger (hilt first), regardless of Sansa's responses in the game. 

 

I thought Sansa did hold her own in the Game of Faces.  She had no obligation to play the game; it was Arya who was pushing an inquisition on her while refusing to reveal what the human face-masks were doing in her bag (as her older sister and the Lady of Winterfell, Sansa had a right to know).  Sansa refused to play.  And though she was frightened, she didn't try to bolt; or scream; she didn't cry.  She acted like the Lady of Winterfell dealing with a rebellious and possibly dangerous younger sibling.  

[PetyrPunkinhead]

Where the hell was Bran this episode? I feel like he could've easily cut through this crap between Arya & Sansa with a bit of use of his power. (Ditto for Jon's whole NOTW fiasco.)

I feel like Arya is gonna end up wearing Littlefinger' face next season.

[Tywinelle]

20 hours ago, Illiterati said:

She'll be back to the Arya you know and love after this finale.

You seem to be an authority on all things Arya and Sansa.  Are you a writer on the show or do you have a mole on the inside?

[Cas Stark]

17 minutes ago, Tywinelle said:

You seem to be an authority on all things Arya and Sansa.  Are you a writer on the show or do you have a mole on the inside?

There are spoilers out there for the final episode.....

[KingMudd]

22 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Sansa was never under threat of death to write the letters. LMAO.  Cersei even tells her they're removing Jeyne because she's causing Sansa stress.  

You might want to rewatch the episode where Ned is beheaded, Arya is trying to get to the Sept to save her father when Yoren grabs her.

She was also only 13 years old (11 in the books). I would like to see anyone at that age stand up to a queen and the small council.

[Darksnider05]

3 minutes ago, KingMudd said:

She was also only 13 years old (11 in the books). I would like to see anyone at that age stand up to a queen and the small council.

Lyanna before the Northern Council Arya before the King..

[KingMudd]

1 minute ago, Darksnider05 said:

Lyanna before the Northern Council Arya before the King..

Arya had her father (the kings best friend) right behind her, Sansa had no one to back her up. Lyanna Mormont is basically fan service and that scene was totally unrealistic. Why would a group of Lords back down after being shouted at by a 12 year old.

[Tywinelle]

38 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

There are spoilers out there for the final episode.....

LOL so this genius is actually claiming the spoilers are his own personal theories?

[Mayor of Winterfell]

21 hours ago, Verily said:

I just hope Arya doesn't die before she and Jon can have their heartfelt reunion, along with her and Gendry reuniting. 

Arya and Jon won't have a heartfelt reunion. Jon comes in introduce his new girlfriend and Arya goes nuts.

[falcotron]

17 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Where the hell was Bran this episode? I feel like he could've easily cut through this crap between Arya & Sansa with a bit of use of his power. (Ditto for Jon's whole NOTW fiasco.)

No, he couldn't. As D&D and Isaac explained in an interview after the Bran reunion, because he didn't finish his training, and hasn't had nearly enough time to cope with his powers on his own, he now sees all of time and space but has no control over what bit he's seeing.

That's why he acts spaced out and distant, and why he only occasionally and randomly has anything useful to offer.

(That's the in-universe reason. The out-of-universe reason is that if Bran had those powers and had no problem at all using them or integrating his new identity into his personality, the story would basically be over in a week. Not to mention that it wouldn't thematically fit with GRRM's world, where magic always has a terrible cost to let Bran be a super-wizard with unlimited power and still be lovable old Bran.)

[Maid So Fair]

4 minutes ago, falcotron said:

No, he couldn't. As D&D and Isaac explained in an interview after the Bran reunion, because he didn't finish his training, and hasn't had nearly enough time to cope with his powers on his own, he now sees all of time and space but has no control over what bit he's seeing.

That's why he acts spaced out and distant, and why he only occasionally and randomly has anything useful to offer.

(That's the in-universe reason. The out-of-universe reason is that if Bran had those powers and had no problem at all using them or integrating his new identity into his personality, the story would basically be over in a week. Not to mention that it wouldn't thematically fit with GRRM's world, where magic always has a terrible cost to let Bran be a super-wizard with unlimited power and still be lovable old Bran.)

It's a shame this was never really explored (and likely won't be) in the show because the effect of Bran's powers on his relationships and sense of self is such a fascinating topic. Unfortunately, this is a common theme - stuff described in interviews or inside the episodes is usually so much more compelling than what makes it on screen. 

[Gaz0680]

1 hour ago, Maid So Fair said:

stuff described in interviews or inside the episodes is usually so much more compelling than what makes it on screen. 

Not lately. Most of the "Inside the episode" stuff  has been absolute garbage and just illustrates how little D&D understand the essence of the characters and how much they (and as s consequence, the other writers and the episode directors) are not telling a cohesive story but just fitting pieces in to fulfill certain spectacle or fanservice objectives, regardless of how those pieces make sense or fit in with the characters involved.

[falcotron]

2 hours ago, Maid So Fair said:

It's a shame this was never really explored (and likely won't be) in the show because the effect of Bran's powers on his relationships and sense of self is such a fascinating topic. Unfortunately, this is a common theme - stuff described in interviews or inside the episodes is usually so much more compelling than what makes it on screen. 

Well, honestly, I think it makes more sense to explore this next season, when Bran starts to be able to come to grips with his abilities.

But that does mean it's a challenge to use him this season. One they've mostly handled by just keeping him off-screen as much as possible and hoping we don't notice, which isn't exactly ideal. (I'm not sure exactly what I'd do if I were in charge, but maybe that's why HBO isn't throwing millions of dollars at me to write their flagship show…)